# Martial Arts McDojangs Need a Healthy Dose of Pitting **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 1, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070 "2013-02-01T21:10:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/141 "2013-02-04T15:05:01Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Very first words of my very first Karate class were very wise instructions to _RUN AWAY_ when attacked. Didn’t matter how much Karate or anything else you knew, someone could still get in a lucky punch, stab or shoot you. The most effective form of self-defense is to run away. > > If you can’t run away, abandon any idea of sticking to your forms and techniques and any idea of a fair fight. Go for the groin, the eyes, the throat, any soft parts. Fight hard, fight mean, do as much damage as possible as fast as possible. Accept that you are going to get hurt and don’t let that stop you from continuing the fight AND seeking an exit. > > Five guys surrounding you? Pick one. Go through him and keep going. Your attack shouldn’t be to try to tackle him or engage in a punching match, leaving the other four to hit you from behind. Your attack should be designed to do damage and knock him out of the way enough so you can get past him and get clear. Then RUN. Run somewhere where there are lots of people and ideally, security cameras. > > Whether you train in the most deadly martial arts on the planet, carry a gun, or both, NEVER think that you are some invincible badass who can never be harmed. Because you’re not, and NO ONE IS. I’m quoting this in its entirety because it’s worth repeating. We’re raised on chop-socky movies where the hero takes out 20 people with The Flying Fart of Death or something similar, and where fights take 15 minutes, people beat the snot out of each other and the winner does not have a hair out of place, and other nonsense like that. As I said earlier, when two people fight, two people get hurt. And on the five guys surrounding you? Good advice, but an even better self defense is to control your environment and not get into that situation at all if possible. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/142 "2013-02-04T15:40:46Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Son, I’ve probably been training in martial arts longer than you have been alive. I do know what I am talking about; that is why I am in training to become a master instructor. And one of the things I have learned over the years is that, even though I’m going to become a master, I am still a student and always will be, until the day I die. There is always something new to learn, or some way to improve something you already know. > > And I will suggest that to you: be a student. Stop trying to present yourself as an authority on something that you don’t know beans about, especially when your cites and quotes are from websites full of lies and hogwash. If you are a serious martial arts student, get back out on the floor and practice. And if you want to do some serious research on martial arts, please allow me to suggest a reading list for you. This is stuff you don’t skim, by the way. These books should be front and center in your library and you should read them repeatedly. > > The Art of War by Sun Tzu. > > The Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi. > > Living the Martial Way by Forrest E. Morgan. > > Mastery: The Keys to Success by George Leonard. > > Quotations for Martial Artists by John Moore. > > Zen in the Martial Arts by Joe Hyams. > > On Becoming A Leader by Warren G. Bennis. > > I’m seriously trying to help you here. If it seems like I have been dumping on you, my apologies - that was not my intention. Your basic problem is that you have read lies and innuendo and have accepted them as truth without questioning them. Now, there are some elements of truth in what you have said previously; for example, I’m certainly not arguing with you that bad business practices are exactly that. But you have stated some “absolutes” and “truths” that simply aren’t, and when others have pointed out that you are wrong, you have ignored them because your mind is closed. And son, if your mind is closed, you cannot learn anything new, and therefore have condemned yourself to failure as a martial artist. And at anything else that you approach with a closed mind - that is a hard fact of life. I acknowledge you trying to help me. Thank you for taking the time in this thread to explain your experiences and what martial arts is about. I will get back to you later in about 5 hours. > [@Ravenman](#): > > With your shitty posts and arrogant attitude, you don’t really need to return at all, you childish jackass. > > We all know you’re social retard, but it’s time to put on your big-boy pants and grow the hell up. That starts with not thinking the whole world revolves around your experiences, which you clearly have no idea of how to evaluate with the total lack of introspection in your life. I do not need your permission to return, **Ravenman**. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/143 "2013-02-04T15:46:50Z")
…shouldn’t you be in school right now? ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/144 "2013-02-04T15:57:17Z")
> [@bobkitty](#): > > …shouldn’t you be in school right now? I am posting from my phone. Phones are permitted between classes and lunch. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/145 "2013-02-04T16:36:25Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > Actually, this one of those things where you can’t always trust masters because it is very possible that they became one at a McDojo. -When somebody knows a fuckload more than you do, it doesn’t matter where they got that knowledge -You are ignoring the vast amount of experience that comes from actually running a business in this area. Clothy’s martial arts expertise is largely irrelevant to his understanding of the financial issues involved. -No matter where he got his initial training, it seems clear to anyone with half a brain that he knows way more than you do. So shut up and listen. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/146 "2013-02-04T17:20:04Z")
Can’t let Clothahump have all the fun. 1 - You reject Clothahump because he differs on the minimum age for a black belt. Take a step back and ask why instead of burrowing deeper in to ignorance. Why 15? What’s so magical about a hard age cutoff at 15? Clothahump says that younger students lack the mental discipline but he can see a 12-13 year old with enough discipline to master TKD up to black belt. YOUR argument is that “well it’s 15 because this website says so”. Which seems like the more reasonable, logical answer? Analogously, Calculus is strictly a college level class. Is that to say that nobody not in college is able to handle the complexities of calculus? Taking it even further back. Some books are deemed as 5th grade books. If you’re a 4th grader, are you absolutely incapable of reading those 5th grade books? 2 - You question Clothahump because he’s saying that dollar amounts may be an indicator of “McDojos” but it’s not necessarily. Some dojo’s legitimately need that much money due to the circumstances. You’re saying “Nope. I’ve done months of research. I’m right.” Well, someone else already analogized the situation with rent in different parts of the nation, but I doubt a 15 year old is ready to grasp that fully. How about an education analogy? What if someone said that $30,000 is the cutoff for reasonable college tuition? Anyone paying more than that is going to a McCollege? Well all the Ivy’s, MIT, Duke, Stanford etc would be lumped in as a McCollege. What if someone said that if you’re paying more than $200 for a violin, you’re getting ripped off? What if you’re getting a strad? What if someone said that if you’re paying more than $2 a gallon for gas, you’re getting ripped off? What if someone said that if you’re paying more than $10 for a shirt, you’re a sucker? These are all incredibly stupid, self-absorbed, ignorant statements and in saying that, it makes you seem incredibly stupid, self absorbed, and ignorant. Also, for the love of sanity, please reserve the Pit for things that affect you personally! ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/147 "2013-02-04T17:44:45Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Please don’t. We don’t need more untrained idiots with guns running around thinking it’s a magic talisman against everything. > > And I say that as a life-long gun owner and Benefactor Member of the NRA. No argument here - I didn’t really wanted to suggest more guns are a good thing – only effectiveness of handguns, which is part of the gun problem of guns, versus Martial Arts. > [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > BangBangDeathWands take extensive training and practice, too. Sure, but someone can be trained to defend him/herself with a gun in less than 30 min. vs several years of training in Martial Arts. Safety is another thing, however not the point here as such. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/148 "2013-02-04T17:47:14Z")
Advice I give all young people I know as they reach the age of 16-17 and start thinking they know everything; Your world is this big (holds hands the size of a basketball), and you know this much of it (moves hands a fraction of an inch smaller). So you think you know everything. Well, the world is the size of this planet, and you know that much of it (hands that size again). As you move forward in life, you are (hopefully) going to come to realize just how much you don’t know. AU, every day you demonstrate your collosal ignorance, and your collosal childish “I know everything” arrogance. Have you ever seen the movie “The Forbidden Kingdom”? Your cup is full. Empty your cup. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/149 "2013-02-04T17:54:35Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > I do not need your permission to return, **Ravenman**. You don’t. But you should also stop acting like a spoiled know-it-all, or at the very least have the self-knowledge that you’re a brat that is on the verge of being totally insufferable. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/150 "2013-02-04T18:08:33Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You don’t. But you should also stop acting like a spoiled know-it-all, or at the very least have the self-knowledge that you’re a brat that is on the verge of being totally insufferable. “On the verge”? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/151 "2013-02-04T18:10:43Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > “On the verge”? I only say that because there’s no evidence that he gets beat up at school daily by kids who can’t stand him, but are too poor to afford the $100 a month to go to a McDojo. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/152 "2013-02-04T18:56:16Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > So adding on to that, it’s taking out all the meaning and value of a black belt. Value is very subjective, and there is a mistaken assumption that ‘black belt’ has anything to do at all with mastery or the ability to defend oneself. The ranking system was invented relatively recently specific to Japanese arts, adopted by the Koreans with TKD as described earlier in this thread, and then became marketed and adapted as a popular grade measure by many other arts. Add to this the kids and youth programs where belts are just a shiny thing to reward progress, time, and money spent, then belts are really meaningless for any sort of objective measure. I’ve studied and practiced regularly for 10+ years as an adult in beltless systems. I didn’t get anything material to show for my time, just knowledge. I wouldn’t trade that for any belt system. Of note, I’ve often sparred in various contexts, from light contact to full, from padded to unpadded. I’ve had blue belts kick my ass, and I’ve easily handed asses to black belts. It means nothing. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/153 "2013-02-04T19:31:30Z")
Does AU feel like his HS diploma is going to be devalued because there are kids scooting by with C’s and D’s getting the EXACT SAME DIPLOMA while he’s knocking down straight A’s in honor’s classes? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/154 "2013-02-04T20:29:08Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > I have no fear in arguing with a 6th Dan black belt. **I know nothing.** Gosh. No! Really? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/155 "2013-02-04T20:33:35Z")
_Anonymous User Knows Nothing_ ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/156 "2013-02-04T20:57:01Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > _Anonymous User Knows Nothing_ But is willing to argue everything. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/157 "2013-02-04T21:08:02Z")
Hey, everyone - be nice, or he might storm off in anger and never ever ever ever come back. Again. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/158 "2013-02-04T21:18:38Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > That statement is bullshit. Business is business. Reasonable price is the meeting place of what the business needs to charge to stay open and the amount that its customers are willing to pay. Any clown who thinks that $100 a month is the top limit for martial arts instruction does not know anything about basic business. I live in a wealthy part of an already very expensive state. My instructor only charges $78/month with a $10 discount for each additional family members (the limit is three family members for the discount). Now, I know those classes aren’t very long. They are two 45-minute classes per week (actually, more like 50). This is actually the weakest part of my Do Jang because everything else is compliant with that site’s rules about what a good Do Jang has, that you think is full of lies. Now price isn’t too much of an issue. Even that site that I cited says that this is only a minor warning sign, and they didn’t even give any specific price limits. So I’ll let this one go. I even said that high monthly prices are only a minor sign and usually isn’t a deal-breaker. So fine, maybe martial arts classes can cost above $100/month sometimes, however if it does get very excessive, that is a sign to look out for because it usually shows that the Do Jang is overly interested in profit and not the art. > [@](#): > > Okay, let’s back that up with some reality. Please post cites from UNBIASED sources that prove that one cannot earn a Black Belt in two years. What makes you think the site I cited was unbiased? Here, I will give you an anecdote. My school is WTF certified (so is my instructor), and like I said, it complies with all of the rules of that FAQ page. My instructor said that the minimum time for each of the low belts was three months per belt, and then six months for the high belts. So basically the timeline for the minimum time goes: White Belt - 3 months High White Belt - 6 months Yellow Belt - 9 months High Yellow Belt - 1 year Green Belt - 1 year 3 months High Green Belt - 1 year 6 months Blue Belt - 1 year 9 months High Blue Belt - 2 years Red Belt - 2 years 6 months High Red Belt - 3 years Black Belt 1st poom/dan - 3 years 6 months And there is a kid in my class who’s been training for two years, and he’s still a yellow belt. The quickest time that anyone’s made black belt there is four years. Everyone else is taking 5-7. Now let me reason behind that. Here, I’ll just quote from that site the reasoning, and you tell me what is wrong with it. I want to know why you think that this site is lying, and how someone can indeed earn a black belt in two years. > [@](#): > > 2 years for a black belt is a joke. Like anything that requires some form of mastery or skill, things take time, maturity, and experience in addition to knowledge. Think of a doctor. Would you trust someone who, instead of 7-8 years of schooling, only had 2, even if he read of the same books and knew the material? You’d be crazy. Would a Marine still be a Marine if there was a way for a recruit to get through the multiple month training in 1 week, even if still met all the requirements at the end for a normal recruit? No. You need years of experience and maturity along with your knowledge, and this you don’t get from a martial arts school who gives out black belts in 2 years. > [@](#): > > The Kukkiwon is not the be-all and end-all of Taekwondo. Most Taekwondo practitioners these days ignore the KKW for a number of reasons. And do you seriously think a kid is gonna go pick a fight with a so-called street fighter? Really? And the ones that do ignore Kukkiwon are McDojos. Why do you think Kukkiwon would put such a limit? This is not about whether or not they are going to pick a fight with a street fighter. If a black belt can be given to a child, then the requirements are simply set too low. Black belts represent maturity, discipline, and knowledge in the art. It’s something only the best can attain and can demonstrate skill above the average person. Not only do kids not have that (neither do I for that matter), but they also don’t have the motor skills to be the equivalent of an adult black belt. If you can prove that a kid is as equally skilled as a 15 year-old 1st dan black belt (through sparring), then by all means, give him the black belt, but I’m not sure that is such a possibility. Really, that’s what that means. If a kid has a 1st dan black belt, then that should mean that he has the same skill as a 15 year-old 1st dan black belt, and they are equally matched. If you can prove that, then fine. And black belts are given to kids, but they should only be “poom belts”. In WTF, you can convert to a dan rank once you turn 15, so technically, kids are getting black belts, just not the official dan rank. > [@](#): > > On that statement, amigo, I will call you a bald-faced liar. Either that, or someone who is totally ignorant and talking out his ass. I have trained in that school since 1987 and have been the chief instructor of the school since 1994. I don’t recall seeing you as a student in that school. No, I’m serious. My instructor only charges $25/test for low belts and $35/test for high belts. Why should testing fees be higher than $40/test? The problem is that it again shows that you’re interested in the profit and you want money that bad. A person that fully cares about the art won’t charge nearly as much as $65/test. But again, this is only a minor sign. Of course, not all schools that have expensive testing fees are McDojos. > [@](#): > > The so-called mythical “street”. Ah, yes, the source of so much inspiration. Your skills gotta be great on the street…you gotta be able to out-fight a street fighter…and tons more hogwash like that. Here’s a newsflash for you, son - there ain’t no such thing as “the street”. Martial arts training does not teach you to go looking for trouble, simply to prove that you are Billy Badass. When two people fight, two people get hurt. > > What martial arts training will do for you, if it is taught correctly, is to teach you how to NOT fight. It will teach you how to control your environment and present yourself as someone who gets passed over when the bad guy starts profiling for potential victims. It will teach you to walk away from someone who is trying to provoke you into a fight. And when the rare instance happens when the bad guy doesn’t get the message, it will give you a set of skills that will slant the odds in your favor. That is true. Even my instructor said that the first step is to run away. But in the case that you _can’t_ run away, you should be able to survive fighting a street-fighter if you’re a first dan black belt. And the only way to practice for that is full-contact sparring. Now again, I never said that point sparring was bad, but it is extremely bad if there is no full-contact sparring at some point in the process because that’s what really shows what your skills are. > [@](#): > > You’re not aware of much, then, I am afraid. Months of research on the web and Youtube…geesh. Son, forget your so-called research. Get out on the floor, bust your ass, sweat like a pig, work your basics and do that for most of your life. When you do, you’ll understand why people like me snicker at people like you. > > No, that’s not correct. We don’t really snicker at you. We laugh out loud. Why do you keep claiming that those sites are lies? What’s wrong with that? Again, a lot of things I am saying are consistent throughout forums, Answers! pages, various websites and FAQ pages. I’ve been through hundreds of them. And they all more or less say what I’m saying. How can you immediately assume that that is all bullshit? What is it in those sites that you believe is false? You keep on saying that these sites are wrong, yet almost all of those people seem to agree with each other, and many are instructors themselves? So I’m not sure how you can call hundreds of webpages bullshit. Another question: If my school is compliant with all of the rules on that FAQ page, then does that mean that my school is also “full of lies”? > [@Clothahump](#): > > Son, I’ve probably been training in martial arts longer than you have been alive. I do know what I am talking about; that is why I am in training to become a master instructor. And one of the things I have learned over the years is that, even though I’m going to become a master, I am still a student and always will be, until the day I die. There is always something new to learn, or some way to improve something you already know. > > And I will suggest that to you: be a student. Stop trying to present yourself as an authority on something that you don’t know beans about, especially when your cites and quotes are from websites full of lies and hogwash. If you are a serious martial arts student, get back out on the floor and practice. And if you want to do some serious research on martial arts, please allow me to suggest a reading list for you. This is stuff you don’t skim, by the way. These books should be front and center in your library and you should read them repeatedly. > > The Art of War by Sun Tzu. > > The Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi. > > Living the Martial Way by Forrest E. Morgan. > > Mastery: The Keys to Success by George Leonard. > > Quotations for Martial Artists by John Moore. > > Zen in the Martial Arts by Joe Hyams. > > On Becoming A Leader by Warren G. Bennis. > > I’m seriously trying to help you here. If it seems like I have been dumping on you, my apologies - that was not my intention. Your basic problem is that you have read lies and innuendo and have accepted them as truth without questioning them. Now, there are some elements of truth in what you have said previously; for example, I’m certainly not arguing with you that bad business practices are exactly that. But you have stated some “absolutes” and “truths” that simply aren’t, and when others have pointed out that you are wrong, you have ignored them because your mind is closed. And son, if your mind is closed, you cannot learn anything new, and therefore have condemned yourself to failure as a martial artist. And at anything else that you approach with a closed mind - that is a hard fact of life. I’m simply having a debate. I have no means of offending you. But I don’t understand how you can argue against those sites and call them lies. What is it about them that you hate? Here let me break it down into a few questions for you: 1. Why do you disagree with the statement that kids cannot get a full-fledged black belt? 2. Why do you disagree with the statement that someone can’t get a black belt in less than three and a half years? 3. Why do you think that full-contact sparring is not an important part of training? 4. What other things do you believe to be lies on that website? * * * Also, in general to everyone else, why do I always have to be the wrong one? It seems like in every thing, I’m wrong. That can’t be possible. And no, **Smeghead** , I’m probably not leaving even if there are ten pit threads started about me. But this is a serious question. You always think I’m wrong. How can that be? Please don’t take this as a boastful statement but I’m just sharing what I have experienced: in real life, people view me as a knowledgeable person (now I am not sure if this is actually true or not, but that’s how it is). In fact, people often tell me I should become a lawyer (which is actually a job I’m interested in). But how come every time I come to the Dope, I’m wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/159 "2013-02-04T21:22:19Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > “Embrace hope, it will become part of your being. Embrace despair, and it will become part of your destiny.” “When you can balance a tack hammer on your head, you will head off your foes with a balanced attack.” ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070/160 "2013-02-04T21:23:58Z")
Every time you type WTF, I read it as What The Fuck. And that is exactly what I am thinking. What is your opinion on ATA versus WTF? I’d love to hear it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martial-arts-mcdojangs-need-a-healthy-dose-of-pitting/649070.md?page=9)