# Martian Tripod War Machine vs. M1A1 Abrams Tank. Who wins? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 21, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570 "2003-11-21T21:05:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/1 "2003-11-21T21:05:06Z")
Here– [http://drzeus.best.vwh.net/wotw/other/daniel1.jpg](http://drzeus.best.vwh.net/wotw/other/daniel1.jpg) Is the Martian Tripod war machine. A fearsome vehicle. Crewed by a single Martian, equipped with grasping tentacles, a Heat Ray that can blast buildings, fry dozens of people at a sweep, or set a whole city block on fire in an instant. That’s not all! It can fire the Black Smoke, a Martian chemical/bio weapon. It is environmentally sealed, and, based on the facility one has moving at night during a raging thunderstorm, has night vision gear. Since it moves faster than a British locomotive, we must assume it can exceed speeds of 80 mph. Its armor can withstand multiple direct hits from late 19th/early 20th Century Heavy Artillery. A deadly opponent. Here they are, destroying London. [http://drzeus.best.vwh.net/wotw/other/schneider10.jpg](http://drzeus.best.vwh.net/wotw/other/schneider10.jpg) Who can stand before the all-powerful martians? [http://drzeus.best.vwh.net/wotw/other/meinert.jpg](http://drzeus.best.vwh.net/wotw/other/meinert.jpg) Maybe the M1A1 Abrams Tank [http://www.velocity.net/~digital/weapons/seals/M1A1\_Abrams\_Tank.jpg](http://www.velocity.net/~digital/weapons/seals/M1A1_Abrams_Tank.jpg) Here is a link > **[M1A1/2 Abrams third-generation main battle tank from GDLS](https://www.army-technology.com/projects/m1a1-2-abrams-main-battle-tank/)** > > M1A1/2 Abrams main battle tank is manufactured by General Dynamics Land Systems (GDLS). The first M1 tank was produced in 1978. Describing the many weapons & abilities of the Abrams. In a tussle amid the field, hills, small towns & forests of, say rural New Jersey (Near Grover’s Mill, of course)… Who wins? ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/2 "2003-11-21T21:14:27Z")
Whoa whoa whoa whoa. The War Machine is not impervious to artillery; **Thunder Child** got one with guns, and I think an artillery battery near London got another. Given that, it’s the Abrams all the way. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/3 "2003-11-21T21:33:08Z")
Hmm…difficult… While the depleted uranium penetrator rounds the M1A1 is using is far superior to the artillery that was brought to bear on the Maritans during the 1939 Grover’s Mill incident, there is still no guarantee that it could breech the tripod’s armor. Sustained exposure to the heat ray would be Bad News for the M1A1, however. Even if it didn’t melt the tank’s armor, it would probably heat up the interor enough to bake the crew and set off the ammunition. Advantage: Mars You can’t hide a tripod. They’re not about stealth, they’re about brute force and intimidation. You can see them coming from miles away, so we can assume that the M1A1 crews would quickly acquire their targets while hiding from the tripods under trees and behind hills and such. Advantage: United States Army I think it would come down to weapon ranges. Explosive shells don’t have to worry about the law of inverse squares, so if the tanks guns have a greater range than the heat ray, they could acquire their targets as soon as the tripods came over the horizon and pound them, concentrating the entire tank squadron’s firepower on a singe tripod until they got a lucky shot and then moving on to the next tripod. On the other hand, if the heat ray is effectively a line of sight weapon, then the tanks would disclose their locations with the first shot and the Martians would barbecue them one by one. My money’s on the Martians. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/4 "2003-11-21T22:51:34Z")
I think it would be down to weapon range and sighting. Now since the Martians could study us from Mars, like a “scientist studies creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water” then it is safe to say their means of sighting is much in advance of our own. The losses suffered by the Martians in the book were I believe more to do with the fact that they didn’t recognise the artillary pieces or ThunderChild as weapons until they were used. Once recognised though such weapon would no longer be allowed to get within range. Probably the entire idea of ballistic weapons is so primitive to the Martians that it took them a while to recognise them as a threat. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/5 "2003-11-21T23:08:59Z")
Mars Always Wins! ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/6 "2003-11-22T00:36:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rocketeer \* > \*\*Whoa whoa whoa whoa. The War Machine is not impervious to artillery; **Thunder Child** got one with guns, and I think an artillery battery near London got another. Given that, it’s the Abrams all the way. \*\* The land artillery required head shots. I believe that the _Thunder Child_ required multiple shots. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/7 "2003-11-22T01:11:47Z")
The U.S. Army wins, because all the Martians catch colds and die. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/8 "2003-11-22T04:31:20Z")
I’d say that the Abrams’ gun would have a decided advantage over the _Thunder Child’s_ guns…because of the [Modern Ammunition](http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/120.htm). A Sabot or a HEAT round should work nicely against a Tripod…and the great, fleshy body of the Martian inside. ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/9 "2003-11-22T04:31:30Z")
Well, the Abrams has NBC gear, negating the black smoke chemical weapon the Martians used - leaving only the heat ray as a method to attack the tanks. More would have to be known about the heatray to know its effectiveness against a tank- if for example, it was a high-powered laser or a 1900’s style “Death Ray” 😉 it could do quite a bit of damage to the Tanks. On the other hand, if it was say a really powerful wide area microwave device, well, the metal shell of the Abrams would provide decent protection, and the inverse square law would give it a limited range. As for how well the Abrams gun will work on the Tripod, with depleated uranium & HEAT rounds, would offer much better anti-armor abilities than the simple explosive rounds that were able to take down Tripods in the book. Also, the Abrams has a much better aiming system, and could probably land direct hits to the vunerable parts on almost every shot. Overall, I would say one-on-one the Tripods have an advantage against an Abrams, but we humans could probably field larger numbers of tanks than the aliens have Tripods, in addition to artillery, helicopters, jets, light armored vehicles with anti-tank missles, and personal anti-armor weapons, really big land mines, and tactical nukes to take down large groups of Martians. Overall advantage goes to today’s humans against the Well’s Martians. ---
**Author:** ![Sinungaling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Sinungaling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinungaling)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/10 "2003-11-22T04:55:22Z")
Yeah, those 1930’s people didn’t have RPGs. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/11 "2003-11-22T06:37:46Z")
Others have expanded on the load out of the Abrams , however one would think that these bug eyed freaks™ are not as well armoured as you may think. While mars itself has a lower gravity ,those bug eyed freaks ™ probably have a composite armour to be light enough to be transported off planet for its voyage to Earth. Sides , see the legs on those things , an abrams at 70 mph could probably kill more by ramming the legs of the bug eyed freaks™ Declan\_ ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/12 "2003-11-22T06:51:07Z")
It’s all moot, because the martains can always fall back and destroy the earth using the infamous “P36 Explosive Space Modulator”. The only drawback to that is it is subject to terran lapine sabotage. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/13 "2003-11-24T20:28:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HPL \* > \*\*It’s all moot, because the martains can always fall back and destroy the earth using the infamous “P36 Explosive Space Modulator”. The only drawback to that is it is subject to terran lapine sabotage. \*\* No rabbits allowed! Besides, Bugs was a Marine. How 'bout that fight? Oh, anybody got some cool Martian images or Links? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/14 "2003-11-25T02:18:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\*The land artillery required head shots. > > I believe that the _Thunder Child_ required multiple shots. \*\* Just reread that part, its not clear, but it had a volley at point blank range. Thunderchild took out three martian walkers (and possibly a flyer) before it was lost (or evaporated). ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/15 "2003-11-25T02:23:37Z")
Are you talking the things from War of the Worlds? In the movie, didin’t the Martian tripods have deflector shields that could protect against atomic bombs? How would a 21st century tank compete against a futurist war machine with energy weapons and deflector shields? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/16 "2003-11-25T02:45:10Z")
Movie? What movie? (I believe Thunder Child took out the last of its opponents by ramming its legs. The tripods do not seem to be as maneuverable when wading.) ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/17 "2003-11-25T02:50:39Z")
Which one has the 1920’s style “Death Ray”? ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/18 "2003-11-25T02:55:54Z")
\*\* msmith538 \*\* we are refering to the book War of the Worlds, by H.G. Wells. In the book, several Martian Tripods are destroyed by convential artillery from the early 1900’s. So yes, a modern tanks probably has a pretty good chance at killing one. In the movie, the Martian ships had nuke-proof shields, so I doubt there is anyone who thinks an Abrams could take one of those out. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/19 "2003-11-25T03:17:37Z")
I still don’t remember the Red Lectroids having much of anything when they landed in Grover’s Mill, New Jersey, much less “deflector sheilds.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570/20 "2003-11-25T03:30:20Z")
It seems to me that the big question is the capabilities of the heat ray. Specifically, what’s it’s effective range, and how many times can it be fired before the tripod needs to reload/recharge/rewhatever. The tripod has marginally greater speed and probably better reconnaisance; if it also has longer range and can sustain fire then it’d be unstoppable. Just fire until the tanks start closing the distance, then fall back to extreme beam range and repeat. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martian-tripod-war-machine-vs-m1a1-abrams-tank-who-wins/214570.md?page=2)