# Martin Hyde, you're a fucking idiot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2006, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078 "2006-02-12T04:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/141 "2006-02-13T02:46:27Z")
All I have to say is that Martin Hyde has surpassed Clothahump and New Iskander as the most despicable poster on this board. Compared to him those two are downright reasonable. As a veteran of the Army and a combat vet it saddens me that Martin Hyde claims to be a former member of the military. I do not believe he really served, but if he did he is a discredit to the military and the country. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/142 "2006-02-13T03:07:07Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > All I have to say is that Martin Hyde has surpassed Clothahump and New Iskander as the most despicable poster on this board. Compared to him those two are downright reasonable. As a veteran of the Army and a combat vet it saddens me that Martin Hyde claims to be a former member of the military. I do not believe he really served, but if he did he is a discredit to the military and the country. As a former servicemember (although I didn’t serve a full tour or really do anything useful at all) I concur wholeheartedly. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/143 "2006-02-13T03:22:33Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > All I have to say is that Martin Hyde has surpassed Clothahump and New Iskander as the most despicable poster on this board. Compared to him those two are downright reasonable. As a veteran of the Army and a combat vet it saddens me that Martin Hyde claims to be a former member of the military. I do not believe he really served, but if he did he is a discredit to the military and the country. I also agree with you. Clothahump I understand and I find fine in non pit threads. I don’t really know new Iskander. Jim ---
**Author:** ![lokij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@lokij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lokij)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/144 "2006-02-13T03:53:32Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > With respect, your analogy is terrible. Providing soldiers with desert is in no way analogous to providing them with chaplains (unless you want to argue that chaplains are as devoid of spiritual value as dessert is of nutritional value, but that’s another debate). The Constitution is silent on the subject of dessert, so whether or not dessert makes soldiers happy is _irrelevant_ to the discussion. What it comes down to is your claim that “making religious soldiers happy” is a legitimate secular purpose of chaplains. But if the purpose is to make people happy based on their religious beliefs, that’s the very definition of non-secular. Even if catering to religious beliefs is somehow a secular purpose, I can’t see how there’s a question that religious services advance religion. The distinction someone tried to draw between “advancing” and “maintaining” is also invalid. While the Constitution does provide the establishment clause, and is silent on the subject of the fundamental human right to dessert (;\>) there IS the free exercise clause. If we in this country must have a professional military, wherein you may be drafted to serve and then be required to serve in foreign lands or locales where your access to the religious counsel of your choice is severely limited or non existent then the government should provide you with reasonable access to religious services in order to protect your Constitutional right to the free exercise of religion. Our Constitution recognizes the existence of the powerful force religion has in our citizen’s lives so much so that the right to free exercise is preserved in our first amendment. Chaplains are by and large good for morale, and no way violate the Lemon test… I believe there was a recent case that hit on or near this called Cutter v. Wilkinson. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/145 "2006-02-13T04:18:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, the majority of this board is nothing but the representation of the worst and most despicable section of America. Degenerates, the mentally ill, the unwashed masses of extreme leftism that are literally a cancer upon mainstream society. The ones that get me are the whores, skunk pussies, buggers, queens, fairies, dopers, junkies: sick, venal. I’ve been thinking lately that someday a real rain would… Nah, probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/146 "2006-02-13T04:31:29Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I went to Basic Combat Training in 1979. One of the options for religious preference–as it had been for years–was Athiest. Another was Agnostic. Yet another was No Preference, while another was Unknown. > > Also, at the time, those who declined to avail themselves of religious services were permitted to remain in the barracks and study or do basic housekeeping chores (washing their uniforms, etc.), all at their choice. > > I guess I just had a far better Drill Sergeant than yours. > > Oh, and my MOS in the Army? 75B. Guess you did. At Ft. Leonard Wood in 1980, where I was sent as a 12B, Drill Sgt. Staten & the rest of the training cadre gave us no such options. The exact words screamed at us by one or another of them were “There ain’t no fucking Atheists in **MY** Army!” Yeah, one of the Atheists in the group, me for example, could have made a complaint. He’d also have received a blanket party from the other recruits and been a real favorite of the Drills. It seemed better judgement at the time to just accept the no preference label and go to service. After basic, that foolishness was over anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/147 "2006-02-13T04:47:12Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Guess you did. At Ft. Leonard Wood in 1980, where I was sent as a 12B, Drill Sgt. Staten & the rest of the training cadre gave us no such options. The exact words screamed at us by one or another of them were “There ain’t no fucking Atheists in **MY** Army!” Yeah, one of the Atheists in the group, me for example, could have made a complaint. He’d also have received a blanket party from the other recruits and been a real favorite of the Drills. It seemed better judgement at the time to just accept the no preference label and go to service. After basic, that foolishness was over anyway. Can’t tell you about the Army, but in Air Force BMT, which I attended pretty recently, some of the Training Instructors (AF equivalent to drill sergeants) will give you hassles about going to a non-Protestant service or no service, but there are comment boxes and comment forms everywhere, and were you to fill out one of those forms and put it in one of same boxes, the TI would definitely get what’s coming to them. I knew some folks who got hell from both TI and rest-of-trainee-flight for putting in a complaint _and then getting scared and withdrawing it_, but if a TI pulls something on a complaint you stand behind, they’re liable to lose a stripe. As for blanket parties as a result of standing up for yourself on Sunday, all of the trainees I was with had a pretty laissez-faire attitude as to religious preference. Any that tried to push others into going to a particular service–in my flights, anyway–would more likely end up on the receiving end of the blanket party. Finally, the chaplains at the smaller services (Jewish, at least) are Captains and have clout (compared to the TIs, at least). They’re happy to hear complaints about TIs who are overbearing on religion, and they’re also take care of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/148 "2006-02-13T05:06:27Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I don’ have a problem with the chaplain system. I don’t see it as an establishment violation because it doesn’t endorse any particular view over any other, it’s non-coercive and there’s no prosyletizing. The word “endorse” does not appear in the Lemon test. > [@Princhester](#): > > Nonsense. If it makes soldiers happy, then that is a legitimate secular purpose, which means it passes the first limb of the Lemon test. Making _ **religious** _ soldiers happy is not secular. “Religious” would be the opposite of “secular.” And frankly I don’t accept your assertion that the primary effect of religious services is “making soldiers happy” anyway. > [@Princhester](#): > > Advancing means advancing. It doesn’t mean maintaining. You argue that any maintenance effectively is advancing, but you are conveniently ignoring the words “primary effect”. The primary effect of giving soldiers chaplains that they want is that you keep them happy. Making religious soldiers happy is not secular. You keep using the word “religious” (except when you conveniently leave it out) while at the same time apparently not understanding that meeting peoples’ religious desires is not secular. And again, I disagree that either the purpose or the primary effect of religious rituals is “making soldiers happy.” In point of fact, the [primary job responsibilities](http://www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=317) of an Army chaplain make absolutely no mention of “keeping soldiers happy.” > [@goarmy.com](#): > > As an Army Chaplain you will have the responsibility of caring for the spiritual well-being of Soldiers and their families. The Army Chaplaincy includes Ministers, Priests, Imams and Rabbis. Army Chaplains are the spiritual leaders of the Army and they perform religious ceremonies from births and baptisms, to confirmations and marriage, to illness and last rites. > > \ > > The responsibilities of an Army Chaplain include: > > Commanding and controlling a Unit Ministry Team during combat and peacetime. > > Coordinating/directing a full program of religious ministries, including workshops, pastoral counseling, religious education and other activities. > > Developing doctrine, organizations and ceremonies for unique chaplain missions. > > Instructing chaplain skills to Chaplain Assistants > > Serving as spiritual advisor to other units, including Army National Guard and U.S. Army Reserve organizations. The Army seems to understand that the purpose of providing chaplains is decidedly non-secular… ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/149 "2006-02-13T05:09:11Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Degenerates, the mentally ill, the unwashed masses of extreme leftism that are literally a cancer upon mainstream society. The _more_ credible I’m held by a bunch of degenerates the worse off I am as a person. You left out “sodomites”? _I’m_ insulted. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/150 "2006-02-13T05:25:11Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > You left out “sodomites”? _I’m_ insulted. Well, the general term “degenerates” encompasses a multitude of more specific perversions. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/151 "2006-02-13T06:13:39Z")
**Martin** , you left my question unanswered: > [@](#): > > Zoe: …It seems only right to me that churches, mosques, synagogues and so forth should be the ones to provide and pay for chaplains to the armed services. Does that sound to you like I am an anti-religious bigot? Although we disagree about the source of funding, I offered my question in a respectful manner and it is a straightforward question. If it will be helpful to you in your accessment of me, I will provide some additional information: I was an English teacher in the inner-city for twenty years, now the grandmother of four, a member of Amnesty International, a former editorial assistant for the United Methodist Publishing House, as politically liberal as most here, a Christian and a continuing survivor of mental illness. Does my view on chaplains as stated above sound to you like I am an anti-religious bigot? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/152 "2006-02-13T08:16:30Z")
[call of the mermaids] > [@](#): > > **saoirse** : I do know that Henry David Thoreau’s first trip to jail was for refusing to pay a tax that Massachusetts levied to support a (the Anglican?) church. The First Parish Church in Concord was a Unitarian Church at the time, I believe. (Now Unitarian Universalist) I don’t _think_ that Thoreau went to jail for that one, but I could be mistaken. The tax was called a “ministerial tax”! Good heavens! Here’s a little more information: [The Voluntaryist](http://members.aol.com/vlntryst/wn71.html#hdt) [/call of the mermaids] ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/153 "2006-02-13T10:09:10Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > War is sometimes necessary, even if it is morally repugnant. We could not be a sovereign nation, with all the freedoms we now enjoy, otherwise. As a hard atheist myself I’m in full agreement with **Q.E.D.** but allow me a quibble on this point. The U.S. would still be a sovereign nation today even had it not fought a revolutionary war against the British. (Witness Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc). In all probability the U.S. would be a far larger sovereign nation had it bided its time as there would have been no cause for separation between Canada and the U.S. Thus I would argue that, in all likelihood, war was not strictly necessary for the eventual establishment of the U.S. as a sovereign nation. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/154 "2006-02-13T13:33:32Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Guess you did. At Ft. Leonard Wood in 1980, where I was sent as a 12B, Drill Sgt. Staten & the rest of the training cadre gave us no such options. The exact words screamed at us by one or another of them were “There ain’t no fucking Atheists in **MY** Army!” Yeah, one of the Atheists in the group, me for example, could have made a complaint. He’d also have received a blanket party from the other recruits and been a real favorite of the Drills. It seemed better judgement at the time to just accept the no preference label and go to service. After basic, that foolishness was over anyway. You had it tough. I was Navy Boot camp in '85 in Great Lakes. There was pressure to attend services but when I refused they accepted it. No pressure from the other boots however. As a concession I went to the Jewish services twice just to see what they were like and because as a midweek service I felt like I was getting over on the CCs. They were ok with this dodge that myself and one lapsed Jewish guy used as it got them their precious Chaplain’s Flag for reviews. 😉 BTW: I am agnostic, lapsed Roman Catholic. JIm ---
**Author:** ![mrrealtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@mrrealtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrrealtime)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/155 "2006-02-13T13:34:30Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You are truly a tool. I expressed despair at the appearance of what I consider a state sponsored religious activity when I am clearly an Athiest. Are you saying all people who express themselves in this way are “a tool” ? And, what is “a tool” exactly? Please clarify your position. Oh, and yes, I was a nerd in elementary school who got picked on all the time. I always react this way to these cave man type comments directed my way. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/156 "2006-02-13T13:38:16Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > You had it tough. I was Navy Boot camp in '85 in Great Lakes. There was pressure to attend services but when I refused they accepted it. > No pressure from the other boots however. > As a concession I went to the Jewish services twice just to see what they were like and because as a midweek service I felt like I was getting over on the CCs. > They were ok with this dodge that myself and one lapsed Jewish guy used as it got them their precious Chaplain’s Flag for reviews. 😉 > BTW: I am agnostic, lapsed Roman Catholic. > > JIm I should clarify that the blanket party would have been for stirring up the Drills rather than specifically for being an atheist. Anything that irritated Sgt. Staten inevitablty resulted in a shower of shit that drenched an entire platoon. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/157 "2006-02-13T13:48:27Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I should clarify that the blanket party would have been for stirring up the Drills rather than specifically for being an atheist. Anything that irritated Sgt. Staten inevitablty resulted in a shower of shit that drenched an entire platoon. So tell me the truth, you must have privately called this idiot Sgt. Satan right? We did have one blanket party in Boot Camp, the guy refused to shower for some reason. I didn’t participate in the barbaric ritual but I also didn’t try to stop it. He wasn’t hurt badly though and he did shower daily after that night, so maybe violence does work occasionally. Jim ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/158 "2006-02-13T13:56:45Z")
> [@Martin](#): > > The majority of this board … are **literally** a cancer upon mainstream society As an upstanding atheist neoplasm, I would just like to state that _arguments ad populum_ are literally attacking the very DNA of the entire Christian world. Incidentally, can one wish for a less religious world _without_ being a bigot? I think the _church_-funded chaplain idea has merit, purely in the interests of fairness with respect to those soldiers who don’t find much use for a chaplain (or imam, rabbi or L. Ron Hubbard doll). Perhaps they could they get togther and demand a government-salaried stand-up comedian or lap dancer instead: one could even test the popularity of their choice relative to the chaplain by holding a religious service at the same time as their suggested means of fulfilling soldiers’ social and emotional needs and seeing how big the crowd was for each. If substantial numbers of soldiers chose the alternative over the chaplain, then that suggests that the chaplain’s salary might be better spent in other ways, and leave the church to pay it instead. But if merely suggesting this is carcinogenic bigotry (and I admit the possibility that I am wrong, in _everything_), so be it. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/159 "2006-02-13T14:11:45Z")
What the hell is a “blanket party?” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078/160 "2006-02-13T14:12:54Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > As an upstanding atheist neoplasm, I would just like to state that _arguments ad populum_ are literally attacking the very DNA of the entire Christian world. > > Incidentally, can one wish for a less religious world _without_ being a bigot? I think the _church_-funded chaplain idea has merit, purely in the interests of fairness with respect to those soldiers who don’t find much use for a chaplain (or imam, rabbi or L. Ron Hubbard doll). Perhaps they could they get togther and demand a government-salaried stand-up comedian or lap dancer instead: one could even test the popularity of their choice relative to the chaplain by holding a religious service at the same time as their suggested means of fulfilling soldiers’ social and emotional needs and seeing how big the crowd was for each. If substantial numbers of soldiers chose the alternative over the chaplain, then that suggests that the chaplain’s salary might be better spent in other ways, and leave the church to pay it instead. > > But if merely suggesting this is carcinogenic bigotry (and I admit the possibility that I am wrong, in _everything_), so be it. For the Navy at least, I know the Lap dancers would triumph in such a poll. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-hyde-youre-a-fucking-idiot/344078.md?page=9)