# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")
The other IMHO thread had descended into sniping so Ellen Cherry smacked us by shutting it down, albeit with an invitation to try again. And this time, to avoid making it personal with direct snipes and attacks at posters about who they are, vs. the things they say. Since the subject which was being most heatedly bandied about at the moment of shutdown was George Zimmerman’s injuries or lack thereof, and how that bears on his (purported) story of self-defense, this article seems pertinent to open a fresh thread: [George Zimmerman in bandages the day after he killed Trayvon Martin, a neighbor says](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-bandages-day-killed-trayvon-martin-a-neighbor-article-1.1062700) So new reports of bandages. Sounds a little fishy that this is the first we’re hearing of any bandages, almost 2 months after the incident. But ok. As of the moment I’m writing this OP, here’s where we stand: 1. George Zimmerman’s version of events has not been officially released. We have heard several versions from several sources, but they all agree this much: [ul] [li]GZ says Martin attacked him first[/li][li]GZ says Martin was on top of him and smashing GZ’s head into the ground[/li][li]GZ therefore felt his life was being threatened and the only means he had to prevent it was to shoot Martin[/li][/ul] Many other details are not clear or consistent across sources, to my knowledge. Some of the other things that I’ve heard include: [ul] [li]a ludicrous script that has Martin saying things like “ya got me!” after he was shot.[/li][li]GZ was nearing unconsciousness from the head bashing[/li][li]GZ volunteered to the police that he had been calling for help but no one answered[/li][li]GZ had not approached Martin and the only reason he was outside his vehicle was to check an address[/li][/ul] I dont’ recall ever reading anywhere that GZ specified that his head was being bashed into concrete, I think that’s been assumed. But I am not certain, so if someone knows… So what does it mean if GZ had injuries sufficiently serious to legitimately require bandages? Does it automatically mean that he acted out of self-defense? I don’t think so at all, and I think I’ve detected an attitude on the part of a number of people that it does. I dont’ see why; the only thing it actually proves is that GZ got hurt. It does not prove anything else- not how, not what led up to it, not the positions of the two players at the moment the fatal shot was fired, etc. It is helpful to the GZ story we’ve heard, but it’s hardly a slam dunk. Any comments? Any other humble opinions or speculation about anything else? This is a the best place for it, we’re about opinion here. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2 "2012-04-18T04:59:00Z")
Zimmerman has been arrested. There will likely be a trial. We’ll hear all the evidence then. In the mean time there’s a lot of speculation and hearsay that may not (probably not) have any bearing on the trial. As far as bandages and Zimmerman’s injuries go, unless there was a medical exam, there isn’t any evidence of serious injury. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3 "2012-04-18T06:08:34Z")
I heard the neighbor story about bandages weeks ago; I don’t know why it is in the news again as fresh information. Frankly, anything related to his injuries that happened after he was released from police custody is irrelevant. Was he photographed by the Sanford PD? The other thread should be re-opened. If specific people needed to called out for specific “infractions,” fine. Why wreck a lively and interesting thread for everyone? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4 "2012-04-18T06:14:15Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > I heard the neighbor story about bandages weeks ago; I don’t know why it is in the news again as fresh information. Frankly, anything related to his injuries that happened after he was released from police custody is irrelevant. Was he photographed by the Sanford PD? > > The other thread should be re-opened. If specific people needed to called out for specific “infractions,” fine. Why wreck a lively and interesting thread for everyone? Because that’s what mods do. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5 "2012-04-18T11:06:35Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > [ul] > [li]GZ volunteered to the police that he had been calling for help but no one answered[/li][/ul] He volunteered it to the EMTs and an officer overheard it. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6 "2012-04-18T14:12:12Z")
Hey, it looks like George Zimmerman has reconsidered the optics of using a photo of a vandalized black community center on his website as an illustration of peoples’ support of him - it isn’t there any more. Now he’s using a [photo taken at a rally](http://therealgeorgezimmerman.com/Album.html) organized by [Pastor Terry Jones](http://www.standupamericanow.org/), best known his [thoughtful provocation of riots](http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/j/terry_jones_pastor/index.html) which killed a dozen people in 2010. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7 "2012-04-18T14:51:28Z")
I’m interested in how his bail hearing goes. He’s no threat to the community. He certainly won’t be patrolling any neighborhoods anytime soon. The cost of protective custody in jail can be shifted to him. He’ll need some home security and thats something he’ll have to arrange. I’m sure an ankle tracker can be used to restrict him to one address. He might be allowed to leave the house for doctors and lawyer visits. This was the arrangement actor Robert Blake eventually got while awaiting trial for his wife’s killing. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8 "2012-04-18T15:37:38Z")
Robert Buonauro is Orlando’s WFTV legal analyst. He gives a really good analysis of the process thats coming. First step he say is a Immunity statute hearing. A mini trial where the judge hears the claim from the defense that he was defending himself. The judge could drop the charges at this point. State could appeal if they want. The judge makes that decision based upon the preponderance of evidence. It’s not a reasonable doubt standard. I had to look up the difference. > **[Burden of proof (law)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_burden_of_proof)** > > In a legal dispute, one party has the burden of proof to show that they are correct, while the other party had no such burden and is presumed to be correct. The burden of proof requires a party to produce evidence to establish the truth of facts needed to satisfy all the required legal elements of the dispute. > The burden of proof is usually on the person who brings a claim in a dispute. It is often associated with the Latin maxim semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit, a translation of... I really like this guys analysis because he’s not trying to address innocence or guilt. This is the legal process under Florida law. [http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/legal-analyst-talks-zimmerman-charge/vGtnc/](http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/legal-analyst-talks-zimmerman-charge/vGtnc/) ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9 "2012-04-18T18:14:57Z")
I’m starting to wonder if Carl Hiaasen is a non-fiction author. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/10 "2012-04-18T20:50:36Z")
Judge Recksiedler disqualified herself today. Fairly routine conflict of interest. Glad this got resolved before any real work was started. > [@](#): > > A Florida judge Wednesday approved a motion to disqualify herself from the criminal case involving a neighborhood watch volunteer who fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, according to the court. > > The defense team for George Zimmerman requested Monday that Seminole Circuit Judge Jessica Recksiedler, who was assigned to Zimmerman’s case, be removed after she revealed that her husband works with a CNN legal analyst. > **[Zimmerman bond hearing set for Friday | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2012/04/18/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)** > > A Florida judge Wednesday approved a motion to disqualify her from the criminal case involving a neighborhood watch volunteer who killed Trayvon Martin. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11 "2012-04-18T21:17:08Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Zimmerman has been arrested. There will likely be a trial. We’ll hear all the evidence then. In the mean time there’s a lot of speculation and hearsay that may not (probably not) have any bearing on the trial. As far as bandages and Zimmerman’s injuries go, unless there was a medical exam, there isn’t any evidence of serious injury. I don’t think it gets past the SYG self defense hearing. There’s no real evidence that Zimmerman threw the first punch, and enough showing that he was under attack. Even if Zimmerman walked up to Martin, he was still in a place he legally had a right to be, and not doing anything illegal. Prosecutors have to show that Zimmerman threw the first punch, or otherwise started the physical confrontation. With no eyewitness, no injuries to Martin, and the injuries to Zimmerman, they have an uphill battle. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12 "2012-04-18T21:47:14Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > So new reports of bandages. Sounds a little fishy that this is the first we’re hearing of any bandages, almost 2 months after the incident. Why? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/13 "2012-04-18T21:49:14Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I really like this guys analysis because he’s not trying to address innocence or guilt. This is the legal process under Florida law. > [http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/legal-analyst-talks-zimmerman-charge/vGtnc/](http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/legal-analyst-talks-zimmerman-charge/vGtnc/) I noticed one mistake. manslaughter in Florida penalties are doubled when the victim is a minor. We are talking 30 years instead of 15 years. Keep in mind that the self defense hearing could be a long way off. Dooley’s lawyer has just requested a self-defense hearing and that shooting happened September **2010**. We better hope that the media petition to keep the media records unsealed gets approved or otherwise we might not now squat for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/14 "2012-04-18T21:57:27Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > [George Zimmerman in bandages the day after he killed Trayvon Martin, a neighbor says](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-bandages-day-killed-trayvon-martin-a-neighbor-article-1.1062700) > > So new reports of bandages. Sounds a little fishy that this is the first we’re hearing of any bandages, almost 2 months after the incident. But ok. The first report of bandages I recall was March 30th. [http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/neighbor-defends-george-zimmerman-03302012](http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/neighbor-defends-george-zimmerman-03302012) The is just another example of the fine journalistic standards of the NY Daily News. March 26th [http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326\_1\_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager) > [@](#): > > With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the **sidewalk** , leaving him bloody and battered, **law-enforcement authorities** told the Orlando Sentinel. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/15 "2012-04-18T22:18:14Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I don’t think it gets past the SYG self defense hearing. There’s no real evidence that Zimmerman threw the first punch, and enough showing that he was under attack. Even if Zimmerman walked up to Martin, he was still in a place he legally had a right to be, and not doing anything illegal. Prosecutors have to show that Zimmerman threw the first punch, or otherwise started the physical confrontation. With no eyewitness, no injuries to Martin, and the injuries to Zimmerman, they have an uphill battle. We’ll find out what they say. It sounds to me like Zimmerman assaulted Martin, who was legally in a place he was supposed to be. Note, I said assault, not assault and battery. What needs to be determined, based on the credible evidence is the sequence of events that followed that. But even the conduct leading up to the confrontation has not been established with any rigor. It’s all stories right now that haven’t been examined closely. I haven’t heard anything that would lead me to conclude either of them committed the first battery. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/16 "2012-04-18T22:19:56Z")
Please forgive my ignorance, but I haven’t heard much (if anything) about the forensics in this case, and I might not be the only ignorant one, so hopefully it’s worth (re)addressing in this thread. What has the public been told regarding where on his body Trayvon was shot, what direction he was facing relative to where Martin purportedly was at the time, and from how close was the shot fired? ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/17 "2012-04-18T22:49:17Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > What has the public been told regarding where on his body Trayvon was shot, what direction he was facing relative to where Martin purportedly was at the time, and from how close was the shot fired? Trayvon Martin was shot once in the chest at “close range”, which I take to mean a few inches to a few feet. I haven’t heard anything on the angle of entry of the bullet. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/18 "2012-04-18T22:56:42Z")
It’s possible the forensics is another hole in Zimmermans ship of a story, and it’s something the prosecutor would have seen but not the public. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/19 "2012-04-18T23:49:47Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It’s possible the forensics is another hole in Zimmermans ship of a story, and it’s something the prosecutor would have seen but not the public. absolutely, but that begs the question what has changed with the new prosecutor. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/20 "2012-04-18T23:55:26Z")
It’s also possible that Zimmerman was sent from a planet orbiting a distant star to rid the earth of black people one at a time. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=2)