# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 101
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2002 "2012-05-23T02:56:27Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If Zimmerman committed assault by grabbing Martin, Martin could inflict serious injury to him under SYG. To argue otherwise is to argue that its unreasonable to believe serious injury is imminent if you’re grabbed by a complete stranger who has been tracking after you in the dark, for reasons unbeknownst to you. Why wouldn’t Martin have been able to make that claim any less than Zimmerman can now? > > As a woman, I assure you that if a man ran aggressively after me on a dark street and then laid his hands on me in an attempt to restrain me, I would fear serious injury and would defend myself to the best of my ability. In the unlikely event that I had a gun, I would probably shoot the guy. How likely is it that I wouldnt be covered under SYG do you think? (To keep things simple, let’s pretend I’m white and so is the guy who grabbed me.) I’m sure we did this about a million posts ago. In short, it’s probably not actually reasonable to think that way, but juries don’t tend to see it that way. I don’t for a moment believe that you actually think there’s no real difference between grabbing someone, and punching them to the floor and repeatedly bashing their head against concrete. You’re twisting things any way you can to make Zimmerman guilty of something - anything - regardless of the facts or the law. I’ll answer your last question if you can explain what you mean by “running aggressively”. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2003 "2012-05-23T03:04:48Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Neither. This discrepancy was noted by Gilbreath at the bond hearing in April, and sources close to the investigation have leaked that the bit about the truck being circled was something that he stuck to over the course of several interviews.Well aware of that - cognitive psychology has been a bit of a hobby-horse of mine for a couple of decades, and mainstay of my reading. (Mostly populist but occasionally academic.) > > What _you_ have to understand is that in spite of the notorious malleability of memory, eyewitness accounts remain very valuable evidence. We acknowledge that memories can be misleading, but that doesn’t mean that we just discount eyewitness accounts out-of-hand (either in total, or selectively.) You weight these accounts according to how well they fit the other facts in evidence. > > Obviously, the most important account is Zimmerman’s own. Will it hold up to scrutiny? For my part, (with the limited information we have now) I have serious doubts. First, because it appears that his statements to investigators about what was happening while he was on the phone to police dispatch appear to be falsified by the actual recording in a striking way - immediately after the fact, and in a way which seems to indicate a deliberate, self-serving fiction. > > I also have a hard time imagining someone “sucker punching” another person while they have an active call and mitts full of convenience store items - this does not ring true at all. If a scuffle gets started, and it turns out that one of the participants had an open call in their ear, I have some doubt that they were spoiling for a fight. So Zimmerman’s account (if it substantially resembles the various bits we’ve heard second-hand) doesn’t seem plausible to me with regard to how the scuffle _started_ either. > > I think it’s things like this that the prosecution will narrow in on. It looks like crude embroidery - the sort of thing a guy who seriously fucked up while acting in the mistaken belief that he was protecting his neighborhood by holding a serial housebreaker in place so the police could get a good look at him might offer up to cover his ass. I think you might consider Zimmerman’s state of mind when you imagine the various ways that this might have unfolded. Four minutes earlier, he said “These assholes, they always get away.” Considering that he has previously demonstrated poor impulse control, (and that he was prescribed medication which sometimes exacerbates this,) do you suppose it’s _possible_ that he may have gone beyond mere conversation in aid of keeping Martin on the spot? Martin didn’t have mitts full of merchandise. The Arizona tea actually fell out of his pocket when they covered the body, then thery placed it on top of the yellow plastic and took a photo. They found the skittles on the grass, though the exact location wasn’t stated. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2004 "2012-05-23T03:05:23Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > What _you_ have to understand is that in spite of the notorious malleability of memory, eyewitness accounts remain very valuable evidence. We acknowledge that memories can be misleading, but that doesn’t mean that we just discount eyewitness accounts out-of-hand (either in total, or selectively.) You weight these accounts according to how well they fit the other facts in evidence. I would tend to sort in chronological order. Fitting to the other facts is obviously the wrong way to go. Too many witnesses have changed their testimony based media accounts in this case. The earliest account should be best. > [@](#): > > Obviously, the most important account is Zimmerman’s own. Will it hold up to scrutiny? For my part, (with the limited information we have now) I have serious doubts. First, because it appears that his statements to investigators about what was happening while he was on the phone to police dispatch appear to be falsified by the actual recording in a striking way - immediately after the fact, and in a way which seems to indicate a deliberate, self-serving fiction. That does seem odd, but I don’t see how that would be something Zimmerman would lie about. Why didn’t Zimmerman ask Martin what he was doing when he walked past? If I am going to ask questions of a stranger, I would rather do it when I have a truck wrapped around me. It just leads to awkward follow on questions to lie about it. The things I would be looking for lies is how long he chased Zimmerman and the details of the interactions between him and Martin. I actually assuming that the dialog between Zimmerman and Martin will have some dramatic enhancements. I would expect some attempts to make Trayvon look more dangerous. > [@](#): > > I also have a hard time imagining someone “sucker punching” another person while they have an active call and mitts full of convenience store items - this does not ring true at all. If a scuffle gets started, and it turns out that one of the participants had an open call in their ear, I have some doubt that they were spoiling for a fight. So Zimmerman’s account (if it substantially resembles the various bits we’ve heard second-hand) doesn’t seem plausible to me with regard to how the scuffle _started_ either. Actually that part is easy. The police found the ice tea and the skittles in the pocket of Martin’s hoodie. They actually took the ice tea out when they were giving him CPR. I think he actually had the phone in his hand and the headset became unplugged when he dropped it. The phone was item #7 and it was fairly close to Zimmerman’s flashlight #5. I’m kind of assuming that the altercation started there. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2005 "2012-05-23T03:23:56Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I don’t for a moment believe that you actually think there’s no real difference between grabbing someone, and punching them to the floor and repeatedly bashing their head against concrete. If you grant that TM could have been warranted in punching GZ in a scenario where he was grabbed for no good reason, what, besides GZ’s own version of events, do you have to show that his head was repeatedly bashed against concrete? I hope it’s more than the two small cuts. Even minor cuts to the head tend to bleed a lot. I’ve bled more than that when I’ve cut myself shaving. If his head was repeatedly bashed against concrete in such a way to make him genuinely fear for his life, there should be much worse damage than two small cuts. The damage to his nose was his most significant injury. And since that could have come from TM defending himself from assault, I find it hard to look at the two cuts on the back of his head and say _those_ were what made him fear for his life. He wasn’t even scared enough for his life, or health, to agree to get checked out at the hospital. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2006 "2012-05-23T03:39:54Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m sure we did this about a million posts ago. In short, it’s probably not actually reasonable to think that way, but juries don’t tend to see it that way. I don’t for a moment believe that you actually think there’s no real difference between grabbing someone, and punching them to the floor and repeatedly bashing their head against concrete. You’re twisting things any way you can to make Zimmerman guilty of something - anything - regardless of the facts or the law. You’re the one making blanket statements about what Martin could and could not do. You’re the one saying he could defend himself, but only up to the point of causing serious harm. But the SYG law doesn’t draw these kinds of absolutes. > [@](#): > > I’ll answer your last question if you can explain what you mean by “running aggressively”. I mean just what the word denote. But to use more words: I’m walking along, minding my own business, when I make brief eye contact with a man who is staring intensely at me across the street. Its dark so its hard to see his face, but from what I can tell the expression on his face suggests he’s mad at me for simply existing, and it frightens me. Figuring I should get the hell out of dodge, I quicken my pace. Lo and behold, I look back and the man is chasing after me. Oh shit! What the hell? That really gets me running. When I turn the corner, i think I might have lost him, because he doesn’t seem to be behind me anymore. I slow down and try to regain my breath. Right when I give myself the all clear and head home, the guy comes rushing towards me from out of nowhere. Before I can open my mouth, he has me in a head lock and is dragging me towards the street. All the while calling me an asshole and maybe a punk or coon. Cant make it out clearly, though. He also says something about a button on my shirt. I have a gun holstered to my waist. The guy stumbles a little, which causes just enough laxity in his grip to allow me get my gun out. I promptly shoot him in the face. This what I mean. In such a scenario, why would I would be a poor candidate for SYG? Seems to me all the right elements are there. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2007 "2012-05-23T09:40:46Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I agree with you: it makes no sense that Martin could be yelling these things while simultaneously whooping some ass. But you know what? It makes even less sense that it’s Zimmerman who is yelling while getting his ass whooped. Based on the little that we know of Z’s statement, he was supposedly getting punched, head-banged, and/or suffocated up into the very end of the fight. He also supposedly had a 158-lb person sitting on top of him (perhaps even on his _chest_…right). I’ve never heard of someone begging a person they’re pounding on. I have heard people on the receiving end to beg for it to stop or yell for help. Your explanation makes absolutely no sense. None. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2008 "2012-05-23T09:51:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’ve never heard of someone begging a person they’re pounding on. I have heard people on the receiving end to beg for it to stop or yell for help. Your explanation makes absolutely no sense. None. You are still stuck on the idea that pounding was taking place. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2009 "2012-05-23T10:02:00Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > You are still stuck on the idea that pounding was taking place. broken nose, lacerations to the back of the head indicate it took place. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2010 "2012-05-23T10:13:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > broken nose, lacerations to the back of the head indicate it took place. But you don’t know when he got these injuries. They are evidence that at some point, Martin hit Zimmerman. But there is no evidence that he was being beaten at the time he fired on Martin. We haven’t even seen the guy’s statement. If he swore up and down that seconds before he shot Martin, he was being suffocated, would that change your analysis of either his truthfulness or the origin of that voice? What if he insisted that Martin had never yelled for help either. How much BS in his statement are you willing to accept, in other words? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2011 "2012-05-23T10:49:20Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I am realizing that most people in this thread don’t realize that **Standard English** actually has a specific technical meaning and many people in this thread just treat it as a synonym for English. I’m talking about not knowing Standard English well enough perform school work and is actually one of the leading causes of school drop outs. > > I am familiar enough with ESL programs that I automatically assume treat Standard English as a technical term. It is quite possible that someone is fluent in some English dialect and not know enough Standard English to perform in school. > > [http://esl.about.com/cs/pronunciation/a/bl\_social.htm](http://esl.about.com/cs/pronunciation/a/bl_social.htm) Dude, I taught English at the college level for a decade, taught ESL for four years, tutored illiterate inner-city kids, and have contributed to academic publications on teaching SWE to youths with nonstandard dialect backgrounds. And you are totally, completely, wildly, _embarrassingly_ wrong. It’s not even close. You’re talking about things on which you clearly have no expertise. If you really want to get educated on what Black English is and why even a kid who spoke only that (and there are essentially no kids who speak only that) is perfectly capable of saying “I’m begging you,” start another thread, or better yet grab a book. But your contention here just makes you look like an idiot and/or a bigot … and I say that as someone who thinks it at least as likely that Zimmerman was doing the begging. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2012 "2012-05-23T11:20:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > broken nose, lacerations to the back of the head indicate it took place. Has anyone reported bruising on the back of Z’s head yet? Some bruising and swelling’d sure help establish the importance of the head/concrete issue. I am not sure that Z’s version of events plays up the head/pavement angle as much as teh in4rwebz’re playing it up. If Z version really does include the whole you’re gonna die tonight /reaching for the gun bit, isn’t the head/concrete thing sorta moot? It seems the declaration of intent combined with an attempt to acquire the means to carry out the intent imminently would be sufficient to establish a reasonable fear for one’s life. Imho anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2013 "2012-05-23T12:46:59Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > C’mon, **Shodan** , I _think_ you’re smarter than that. If you’re not, too bad. I’m not going to hold your hand and explain to you age-related changes to cognitive function and how it relates to the matter at hand - Zimmerman (28 years old) and Martin (just turned 17, three weeks before he was shot). So now you are arguing that it is more likely that **Martin** was the attacker, because his brain was immature? OK, but I don’t see how that helps your point. Pretty much the opposite, in fact. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > But you don’t know when he got these injuries. Well, I guess we don’t have pictures of Zimmerman from earlier in the evening, so we cannot prove he didn’t have the injuries before. OTOH, his nose was apparently still bleeding, and it strains credulity (at least on my part) to imagine that by pure coincidence Zimmerman had injuries consistent with a narrative of being beaten in specific ways just in case he needed to shoot somebody. So I think we can reasonably conclude he wasn’t injured before the altercation. And I don’t think he had any chance to be injured after the altercation - one would expect the police to notice if someone in their custody describing how he had just shot someone was punching himself in the nose and hitting himself on the back of the head. So I think we can reasonably conclude he wasn’t injured after the altercation either. So that leaves “during the altercation” as the only reasonable time during which Zimmerman got injured. > [@](#): > > But there is no evidence that he was being beaten at the time he fired on Martin. IIRC, Martin was shot at point-blank or near point-blank range, eight inches or less. So they were less than arm’s length apart. And Martin’s body was found on or near the sidewalk which Zimmerman alleges was the source of the injuries to the back of his head. And the whole fight lasted, what, a couple of minutes? So your scenario is a little hard to believe. Somehow or other Martin punched Zimmerman in the face, knocked him down, beat his head in the ground (all the while screaming “I’m begging you” for no apparent reason). Then Martin stopped beating him but continued to scream, somehow they got less than eight inches apart, Martin continued to scream but did not resume beating Zimmerman, and then Zimmerman shot him, even though no beating was happening. Or - The fight went down more or less as Zimmerman described it, where Zimmerman was the one screaming (because Martin was beating him), Zimmerman was the one saying “I’m begging you” (in an effort to make Martin stop beating him), and the shot was fired from eight inches away because Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him, and the screams stopped because Martin was no longer beating Zimmerman. > [@](#): > > If he swore up and down that seconds before he shot Martin, he was being suffocated, would that change your analysis of either his truthfulness or the origin of that voice? What if he insisted that Martin had never yelled for help either. How much BS in his statement are you willing to accept, in other words? If Zimmerman said that he was being continuously suffocated throughout the struggle, and that he never screamed for help, then I am willing to believe that he is being untruthful about that. Saying that at some point, Martin had his hand over Zimmerman’s mouth, does not prove that it was impossible for Zimmerman to ever scream. If Zimmerman stated that Martin never screamed for help, I am inclined to believe him. I see no reason why Martin would scream for help - he was winning the fight pretty easily up to the point where he got shot. And as mentioned, the idea of someone saying “I’m begging you” to the person he is beating does not seem reasonable to me. So if Zimmerman says Martin was saying that to him, then I won’t believe Zimmerman there either. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2014 "2012-05-23T14:08:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’ve never heard of someone begging a person they’re pounding on. I have heard people on the receiving end to beg for it to stop or yell for help. Your explanation makes absolutely no sense. None. What we _know_ was said was “Help, help!” This makes sense in the context of someone trying to subdue someone they perceive to be a “creepy dude” that put their hands on them - especially if they become aware of a gun during the struggle. It would not be directed at the other person, it would be directed at anyone in the immediate vicinity. _If_ “I’m begging you!” was heard by anyone, it would also be perfectly natural in this situation - perhaps more plausibly from someone struggling to hold down a man with a gun than from someone who is taking a vicious beating. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2015 "2012-05-23T15:02:51Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > But you don’t know when he got these injuries. Yes we do. It was documented at the time. To suggest otherwise is not reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2016 "2012-05-23T15:04:24Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > What we _know_ was said was “Help, help!” > > This makes sense in the context of someone trying to subdue someone they perceive to be a “creepy dude” that put their hands on them - especially if they become aware of a gun during the struggle. It would not be directed at the other person, it would be directed at anyone in the immediate vicinity. > > _If_ “I’m begging you!” was heard by anyone, it would also be perfectly natural in this situation - perhaps more plausibly from someone struggling to hold down a man with a gun than from someone who is taking a vicious beating. The eye witness saw one person striking another repeatedly. This coincides with the injuries incurred by Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2017 "2012-05-23T15:06:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It was documented at the time. What does this even mean? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2018 "2012-05-23T15:17:01Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > What does this even mean? It means it was documented that he suffered head and face wounds consistent with his story. That’s what it means. Someone saw him beaten, and the police documented the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2019 "2012-05-23T15:23:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It means it was documented that he suffered head and face wounds consistent with his story. That’s what it means. Someone saw him beaten, and the police documented the evidence. And yet none of us know whether he was being beaten in the moments before he shot Martin. There is no evidence of this beyond Z’s own claim, because no one saw the shooting take place. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2020 "2012-05-23T15:27:10Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > And yet none of us know whether he was being beaten in the moments before he shot Martin. There is no evidence of this beyond Z’s own claim, because no one saw the shooting take place. No, that’s false. We have a police report that documented the beating. We have photographic evidence of it at the time it occurred by someone there and the police. This is not even remotely in dispute. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2021 "2012-05-23T15:31:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, that’s false. We have a police report that documented the beating. We have a police report of GZ’s claim of a beating. The police weren’t there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=100) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=102)