# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 106
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2102 "2012-05-23T21:51:46Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > 1. Has Zimmerman’s statement been released? > > 2. Where did I mention Zimmerman’s ‘account’? > > I have no opinion as to any concussion, and it’s not really necessary to address unless poking holes in Zimmerman’s account. See 1, supra. 1. I’m basing his statements on what has been leaked in the press so far, recounted by his family and other sources, and what has been alluded to by the prosecution at the bond hearing while under oath. Same as everyone else here in this opinion and speculation thread. If it turns out that all those versions are wrong, we are free to change our opinions, with no harm to the defendant. This isn’t a court of law. 2. Where did I say you mentioned it? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2103 "2012-05-23T21:55:03Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I am also very interested in the EMT report, and how it squares with the report from Zimmerman’s personal physician. The EMT records are not available at this time, but recordings of the interviews w/ the EMTs are available. The Dr report isn’t available and I don’t think that they interviewed him. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2104 "2012-05-23T21:58:25Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > The EMT records are not available at this time, but recordings of the interviews w/ the EMTs are available. > The Dr report isn’t available and I don’t think that they interviewed him. What is the document on page 181? Is it not the EMT report? [http://www.scribd.com/doc/93960335/Documents#fullscreen](http://www.scribd.com/doc/93960335/Documents#fullscreen) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2105 "2012-05-23T21:59:47Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Interesting. > The cops did, in fact, document in their report that Zimmerman repeatedly declined medical care. So maybe they are not all that incompetent after all. When interviewed by the FDLE, one of the EMTs told the PD that Z might need to go and get some stitches and asked the PD is they wanted him to take Z or if the PD were going to take him. I forget if it was Rochefort or Livingston of who at this point though. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2106 "2012-05-23T22:02:04Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > The EMT records are not available at this time, but recordings of the interviews w/ the EMTs are available. > The Dr report isn’t available and I don’t think that they interviewed him. Well, I wonder what EMT records are on the exemption list then since there are indeed EMT records in what has been released. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2107 "2012-05-23T22:54:46Z")
The autopsy reports the bullet trajectory as pretty much front to back from the left side of Martin’s chest. I was expecting more of a right to left trajectory. FtoB seems to indicate more separation between Zimmerman and Martin than I was expecting. If Martin was straddling Zimmerman then I would expect the bullet to have an upward trajectory. This is a place where Zimmerman’s statement would be handy or better yet an exit wound where we could see where the bullet ended up. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2108 "2012-05-23T22:57:35Z")
I smell a Perry Mason moment where the prosecutor throws an orange to Zimmerman in court and he catches it with his left hand. Aha! ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2109 "2012-05-23T23:06:37Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > The autopsy reports the bullet trajectory as pretty much front to back from the left side of Martin’s chest. I was expecting more of a right to left trajectory. FtoB seems to indicate more separation between Zimmerman and Martin than I was expecting. > If Martin was straddling Zimmerman then I would expect the bullet to have an upward trajectory. > > This is a place where Zimmerman’s statement would be handy or better yet an exit wound where we could see where the bullet ended up. It entered on the L side of his xyphoid process and ended up in the R lung, right? The trajectory is only horizontal to M’s body, but that doesn’t mean that it was horizontal in re the horizon. There’s no reason to assume that M was perfectly vertical when he was shot. If he was leaning over some, an upward trajectory would be horizontal in re M’s body / hips. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2110 "2012-05-23T23:11:09Z")
Does anyone remember when Zimmerman’s first lawyer said the guy had repeatedly asked to go to the hospital, but the police wouldn’t let him leave? And we had that big ole discussion if the police had the right to do this to someone who they had not arrested? Why are we now hearing that Zimmerman repeatedly declined medical treatment? ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2111 "2012-05-23T23:19:29Z")
> [@camille](#): > > The EMT report doesn’t jive with Zimmerman’s claim of repeated head bashing. It notes only one small laceration, more consistent with a fall (say, after a single punch). His Glasgow and PMS (perception, motor, sensory) are perfect, and no loss of consciousness. No concussion possibility noted or even suspected. > **[More details emerge in Trayvon Martin investigation | CNN](https://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/18/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?eref=edition)** > > Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend heard Martin say “get off, get off” before his call ended and he was killed, according to a recording released Friday. If you have a magnifying feature on your browser, use it on Zimmerman’s head. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2112 "2012-05-23T23:36:21Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > If you have a magnifying feature on your browser, use it on Zimmerman’s head. The EMT report only cites one cut. Therefore, any others were inflicted after the EMT examined him. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2113 "2012-05-24T00:03:35Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Does anyone remember when Zimmerman’s first lawyer said the guy had repeatedly asked to go to the hospital, but the police wouldn’t let him leave? And we had that big ole discussion if the police had the right to do this to someone who they had not arrested? > > Why are we now hearing that Zimmerman repeatedly declined medical treatment? Because someone is lying. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2114 "2012-05-24T00:08:45Z")
> [@camille](#): > > What is the document on page 181? Is it not the EMT report? > > [http://www.scribd.com/doc/93960335/Documents#fullscreen](http://www.scribd.com/doc/93960335/Documents#fullscreen) Well, I wonder what EMT records are on the exemption list then since there are indeed EMT records in what has been released. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2115 "2012-05-24T00:10:12Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Does anyone remember when Zimmerman’s first lawyer said the guy had repeatedly asked to go to the hospital, but the police wouldn’t let him leave? And we had that big ole discussion if the police had the right to do this to someone who they had not arrested? > > Why are we now hearing that Zimmerman repeatedly declined medical treatment? The 1st lawyers hadn’t ever really talked to Z face to face and they had not had discovery? ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2116 "2012-05-24T00:11:11Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > [http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/18/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?eref=edition](http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/18/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?eref=edition) > > If you have a magnifying feature on your browser, use it on Zimmerman’s head. Yet we have an EMT report that says one small laceration. To be fair, the next day medical report from Zimmerman’s doctor that was leaked to ABC notes two lacerations: > [@](#): > > The two lacerations on the back of his head, one of them nearly an inch long, the other about a quarter-inch long, were first revealed in photos obtained exclusively by ABC News last month. So one was nearly an inch and one was about a quarter inch. Maybe the EMT didn’t consider the quarter inch as a separate laceration (?), but how is it that both records are not noting anything more consistent with repeated head bashing like a possible concussion or TBI symptoms? > **[ABC News Exclusive: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations...](https://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532#.T715YFI0Eg9)** > > A medical report compiled by George Zimmerman's family physician and obtained exclusively by ABC News, show that Zimmerman was diagnosed with "closed fracture" a broken nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head, and a minor... ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2117 "2012-05-24T00:11:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The EMT report only cites one cut. Therefore, any others were inflicted after the EMT examined him. Or the second one wasn’t worth mentioning? Or was small enough to go unnoticed? ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2118 "2012-05-24T00:13:36Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Well, I wonder what EMT records are on the exemption list then since there are indeed EMT records in what has been released. Good question. Could it be related to statements Zimmerman made to the EMT workers? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2119 "2012-05-24T00:13:46Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Yet we have an EMT report that says one small laceration. To be fair, the next day medical report from Zimmerman’s doctor that was leaked to ABC notes two lacerations: > > So one was nearly an inch and one was about a quarter inch. Maybe the EMT didn’t consider the quarter inch as a separate laceration (?), but how is it that both records are not noting anything more consistent with repeated head bashing like a possible concussion or TBI symptoms? > > [http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532#.T715YFI0Eg9](http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532#.T715YFI0Eg9) Perhaps the head and pavement angle has received more attention on the internet than it did IRL. Just because so many on the internet have taken that aspect and run w/ it doesn’t mean that Z felt the same way. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2120 "2012-05-24T00:16:48Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Good question. Could it be related to statements Zimmerman made to the EMT workers? I haven’t finished listening to all of the interviews yet, but in the EMT interview I did listen to, the guy who treated Z said that Z made no statements to him. The investigator asked him the question more than once in different ways and also asked the same about Martin. The EMT was clear that neither M nor Z made any statements to him. But there were other people there. As I said I haven’t finished listening to everything. So when the PD report notes that Z made a statement to the EMTs, perhaps it was a different EMT. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2121 "2012-05-24T00:19:55Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Yet we have an EMT report that says one small laceration. To be fair, the next day medical report from Zimmerman’s doctor that was leaked to ABC notes two lacerations: > > So one was nearly an inch and one was about a quarter inch. Maybe the EMT didn’t consider the quarter inch as a separate laceration (?), but how is it that both records are not noting anything more consistent with repeated head bashing like a possible concussion or TBI symptoms? > > [http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532#.T715YFI0Eg9](http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532#.T715YFI0Eg9) The darkened areas are abrasions, which occur when the skin is rubbed against a hard surface. They aren’t life threatening, so they were apparently ignored. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=105) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=107)