# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 107
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2122 "2012-05-24T00:22:15Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Or the second one wasn’t worth mentioning? Or was small enough to go unnoticed? Look at the tiny cut on his forehead. They found that worth mentioning. I think they were very meticulous. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2123 "2012-05-24T00:24:06Z")
[http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-23/zimmerman-police-complaint/55175426/1?csp=34news&utm\_source=feedburner&utm\_medium=feed&utm\_campaign=Feed%3A+usatoday-NewsTopStories+(News+-+Top+Stories)](http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-23/zimmerman-police-complaint/55175426/1?csp=34news&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+usatoday-NewsTopStories+%28News+-+Top+Stories%29) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2124 "2012-05-24T00:30:20Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Good question. Could it be related to statements Zimmerman made to the EMT workers? I just thought the same thing. The report notes the cause of injury as being “Struck by blunt or thrown object”. The paramedic also notes that Z claims he was assaulted and his head struck the pavement. These descriptions sound oddly understated to me. “His head struck the pavement”…that sounds awfully like a clumsy fall to me. As opposed to “his head was violently pounded against the sidewalk over and over again”. I’m also wondering why the cause was worded the way it was. “Struck by…object”. How much did Zimmerman talk to the EMTs, I wonder. If he was Gabby McGabberson with them, he might have provided a version of events far less dramatic than he did the cops. Which would explain the paramedic’s blase notes. I cant wait for all of this to come out. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2125 "2012-05-24T00:39:46Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > The darkened areas are abrasions, which occur when the skin is rubbed against a hard surface. They aren’t life threatening, so they were apparently ignored. I think that the darkened areas are just traces of blood that has been mopped up or wiped away. It doesn’t seem reasonable that two different sources would carefully note that his forehead was abraded but neglect to mention abrasions on the back of his head, which are easily 10X the size. [Compare](http://www2.journalnow.com/mgmedia/image/0/0/190411/x0519-martin/). ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2126 "2012-05-24T00:41:09Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > [http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-23/zimmerman-police-complaint/55175426/1?csp=34news&utm\_source=feedburner&utm\_medium=feed&utm\_campaign=Feed%3A+usatoday-NewsTopStories+(News+-+Top+Stories)](http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-23/zimmerman-police-complaint/55175426/1?csp=34news&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+usatoday-NewsTopStories+%28News+-+Top+Stories%29) While I think it’s great he spoke out about that coverup, it’s hard not to read his statements about Sanford PD and see this as more evidence of him being a self-aggrandizing idiot whose life mission is to prove he’s better than cops at doing their own jobs. I don’t think Zimmerman is a racist or that he targeted Martin because he’s a bigot. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2127 "2012-05-24T00:59:27Z")
I’ll also say that if Zimmerman was still oozing blood all over his head at the PD when they took those pics, it makes no sense to me that the EMT wouldn’t have dressed those cuts, no matter how small they are. That’s what band aids are for. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2128 "2012-05-24T02:00:11Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > It entered on the L side of his xyphoid process and ended up in the R lung, right? > > The trajectory is only horizontal to M’s body, but that doesn’t mean that it was horizontal in re the horizon. > There’s no reason to assume that M was perfectly vertical when he was shot. > If he was leaning over some, an upward trajectory would be horizontal in re M’s body / hips. You are right. When I diagrammed it out from the left anterior 5th intercostal space to the right lower lobe of lung, then it does have a trajectory from the left side of Martin’s body to the right side. When the ME describes the direction as “directly front to back” it is rather misleading. Zimmerman shot Martin in the left chest and it passed between the ribs, through the heart and lodged in right lung. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2129 "2012-05-24T02:05:15Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I’ll also say that if Zimmerman was still oozing blood all over his head at the PD when they took those pics, it makes no sense to me that the EMT wouldn’t have dressed those cuts, no matter how small they are. That’s what band aids are for. Band-aids don’t stick well to hair/stubble. In order to dress those wounds they would either have to use that stuff that’s like superglue, which would be unpleasant/damaging to his hair, OR they would have had to wrap his whole head in bandages. If they would have done that, I can’t imagine the uproar, first from people noting how his head was split open so badly to require so much bandage, and then from the people yelling “Coverup!” complaining that excess bandages were used to make two tiny cuts look much worse than they are. Lol, you can’t win! ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2130 "2012-05-24T02:20:19Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Band-aids don’t stick well to hair/stubble. In order to dress those wounds they would either have to use that stuff that’s like superglue, which would be unpleasant/damaging to his hair, OR they would have had to wrap his whole head in bandages. If they would have done that, I can’t imagine the uproar, first from people noting how his head was split open so badly to require so much bandage, and then from the people yelling “Coverup!” complaining that excess bandages were used to make two tiny cuts look much worse than they are. Lol, you can’t win! When I first looked at the pics, I thought his head had been cleaned and the wounds had bled afresh during transport to the PD. But since the blood clearly is dark and crusty. it looks at though the EMT cleaned just the wounds themselves and left the original dribble lines in place. Probably for evidence reasons, thank goodness. That one dribble line that snakes behind his ear…how do you get that while lying on your back? Another one for the WTF file. So not bandaging the cuts doesnt bother me that much anymore. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2131 "2012-05-24T02:21:32Z")
I wouldn’t have yelled “coverup!” I would have thought, “Mmm, I guess there might have been something going on to warrant pulling out a gun and shooting someone.” As it is now, I’m like WTF!? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2132 "2012-05-24T02:48:43Z")
[http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-george-zimmerman-blasts-sanford-police-20120523,0,6588708.story](http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-george-zimmerman-blasts-sanford-police-20120523,0,6588708.story) It is kind of amusing where he talks about how lazy the Sanford PD officers are [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html) ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2133 "2012-05-24T03:30:15Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > [http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-george-zimmerman-blasts-sanford-police-20120523,0,6588708.story](http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-george-zimmerman-blasts-sanford-police-20120523,0,6588708.story) > > It is kind of amusing where he talks about how lazy the Sanford PD officers are > > [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html) He likes to shoot his mouth off. That might turn out to be what sinks him. Imagine what he could have texted or emailed in the weeks before his arrest. ---
**Author:** ![michigan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e7dd6/32.png) [@michigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/michigan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2134 "2012-05-24T12:27:43Z")
Thanks for posting elaborations on Florida law and legal concepts of self-defense in response to my questions. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2135 "2012-05-24T14:36:25Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > You are right. > When I diagrammed it out from the left anterior 5th intercostal space to the right lower lobe of lung, then it does have a trajectory from the left side of Martin’s body to the right side. > > When the ME describes the direction as “directly front to back” it is rather misleading. > > Zimmerman shot Martin in the left chest and it passed between the ribs, through the heart and lodged in right lung. That can still be pretty much straight in. I mean it doesn’t have to be that many degrees off of parallel to the line between M’s sternum and spine. This means that the gun was in front of M and pressed against his chest when it went off. I can’t help but wonder at this point where in Z’s waistband the weapon was. I think the front and the back are more common than the sides for those types of holsters. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2136 "2012-05-24T14:48:06Z")
More evidence that Z is not a racist. He was outrage over the beating of a black homeless man. Add in the mentoring Z was doing for years. Z was no racist looking for a black guy to shoot. He was trying hard to protect his neighborhood from criminals that were committing break ins and robberies. A bad person is a bad person. Their age, race or gender doesn’t matter. If my home is robbed and vandalized I could care less whether the person was Asian, black, Arab , or white. > [@](#): > > George Zimmerman accused the Sanford police department of corruption more than a year before he shot Trayvon Martin, saying at a public forum the agency covered up the beating of a black homeless man by the son of a white officer. > > “I would just like to state that the law is written in black and white,” Zimmerman said during a 90-second statement to city commissioners at a community forum. “It should not and cannot be enforced in the gray for those who are in the thin blue line.” > **[Zimmerman complained about Sanford police in 2011](https://www.foxnews.com/us/zimmerman-complained-about-sanford-police-in-2011)** > > George Zimmerman accused the Sanford police department of corruption more than a year before he shot Trayvon Martin, saying at a public forum the agency covered up the beating of a black homeless man by the son of a white officer. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2137 "2012-05-24T14:58:48Z")
> [@michigan](#): > > Thanks for posting elaborations on Florida law and legal concepts of self-defense in response to my questions. My pleasure! And I think I said this before, but thanks in return to you, for so clearly and insightfully laying out your own thought processes. I’ve been frustrated at times as what I’ve seen as mildly desperate attempts to pigeonhole the evidence into fitting a preconception, and what you wrote makes me re-evaluate that frustration completely. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2138 "2012-05-24T15:36:58Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > More evidence that Z is not a racist. He was outrage over the beating of a black homeless man. Add in the mentoring Z was doing for years. > > Z was no racist looking for a black guy to shoot. He was trying hard to protect his neighborhood from criminals that were committing break ins and robberies. A bad person is a bad person. Their age, race or gender doesn’t matter. If my home is robbed and vandalized I could care less whether the person was Asian, black, Arab , or white. > [Zimmerman complained about Sanford police in 2011 | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/23/zimmerman-complained-about-sanford-police-in-2011/?test=latestnews) Just to fairly balance the Fox ‘News’ story … from [here](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681_p2/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html): > [@](#): > > Since the claims about Zimmerman’s involvement in the Ware case first surfaced last month, Jackson denied that Zimmerman was among those who participated in community activism on Ware’s behalf. > [@](#): > > Jackson said all of Sanford — not just the black community — was in an uproar over the case, because of the perception that Collison’s wealthy, influential family had intervened. > [@](#): > > Last month, someone identifying himself as a member of Zimmerman’s family forwarded The Herald a copy of the flier Zimmerman supposedly posted at black churches, urging everyone to attend the community forum. The same person also sent a letter to the area NAACP and to Ware’s sister, Tonnetta Foster, making the same claims and complaining that the black community had rushed to judgment of Zimmerman and conveniently forgotten his role in the Ware case. > > “I have never seen that guy in my life,” Foster told The Miami Herald, speaking about Zimmerman. “I feel like he is using that case to make it look like he was a good guy, when I feel he is a liar and a murderer.” > > Earlier this month The Herald visited five of the six churches where Zimmerman’s relative claimed he had left the fliers. None recalled such an announcement. > > “If there had been a flier, it would have been on my car. They always put it on the pastor’s car,” said Rev. Michael Griffin, pastor at Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church, where Foster worships. “Nobody got fliers here.” ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2139 "2012-05-24T15:42:46Z")
**Bricker** (or one of our other lawyers), can you comment on the significance of this, especially de la Rionda’s remarks about Zimmerman’s statements? [http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-23/news/os-george-zimmerman-motion-evidence-seal-20120523\_1\_statements-seal-scene-and-autopsy-photos](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-23/news/os-george-zimmerman-motion-evidence-seal-20120523_1_statements-seal-scene-and-autopsy-photos) Reading it as a foreigner and legal amateur it could be anything from absolutely routine to fairly significant. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2140 "2012-05-24T16:22:41Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > I can’t help but wonder at this point where in Z’s waistband the weapon was. > > I think the front and the back are more common than the sides for those types of holsters. I think a small of the back carry. He could have been carrying it inside the pants on the right side, but Zimmerman’s jeans didn’t look loose when he arrived at the police station. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2141 "2012-05-24T16:32:49Z")
> [@kellner](#): > > **Bricker** (or one of our other lawyers), can you comment on the significance of this, especially de la Rionda’s remarks about Zimmerman’s statements? > > [http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-23/news/os-george-zimmerman-motion-evidence-seal-20120523\_1\_statements-seal-scene-and-autopsy-photos](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-23/news/os-george-zimmerman-motion-evidence-seal-20120523_1_statements-seal-scene-and-autopsy-photos) > > Reading it as a foreigner and legal amateur it could be anything from absolutely routine to fairly significant. With all due respect to the lead prosecutor, I don’t believe the prosecution is tremendously concerned about a “trial in the media” of facts that support the prosecution’s case. I therefore take the initial position that evidence that the prosecution wants sealed will help the defense, and evidence that the defense wants sealed will help the prosecution. But that’s just my personal opinion. Without knowing what the evidence is, it’s impossible to judge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=106) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=108)