# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 112
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2222 "2012-05-29T15:28:24Z")
These three seem to have dropped interest in the case. I wonder why? Usually, if there is an opportunity to lead marches, run rallies, etc., there three are in on it. I think this is turning into another Tawana Brawley case…or at least, one in which there is little opportunity to make money. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2223 "2012-05-29T15:40:49Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > These three seem to have dropped interest in the case. > I wonder why? Usually, if there is an opportunity to lead marches, run rallies, etc., there three are in on it. I think this is turning into another Tawana Brawley case..or at least, one in which there is little opportunity to make money. Maybe because Zimmerman has been charged w/ a crime? idk. I think that’s what they said they were after. :shrug: Can we rule out the more obvious and routine explanations before we venture into the realms of hidden motives? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2224 "2012-05-29T15:56:13Z")
[http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-motion-20120529,0,5341464.story](http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-motion-20120529,0,5341464.story) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2225 "2012-05-29T17:21:34Z")
> [@ralph 124c](#): > > These three seem to have dropped interest in the case. > I wonder why? Because they achieved their goal: Zimmerman has been arrested and arraigned for trial. That was the cause of the outrage, he was never arrested and the investigation was dead. When you achieve your goal, it is usually counter productive to continue demonstrating. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2226 "2012-05-29T17:38:23Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Because they achieved their goal: Zimmerman has been arrested and arraigned for trial. That was the cause of the outrage, he was never arrested and the investigation was dead. When you achieve your goal, it is usually counter productive to continue demonstrating. If Zimmerman has a probable cause hearing and the judge rules he’s immune from prosecution under Florida’s law, what, if anything, do expect the reaction to be? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2227 "2012-05-29T17:40:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If Zimmerman has a probable cause hearing and the judge rules he’s immune from prosecution under Florida’s law, what, if anything, do expect the reaction to be? Oh, I expect they will be outraged, and direct that outrage against a law that we both agree is insane. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2228 "2012-05-31T15:38:06Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Oh, I expect they will be outraged, and direct that outrage against a law that we both agree is insane. I hope so, because that’s precisely where the outrage should be directed. What I fear, though, is that some members of the community will believe it’s incompetent or racist authorities choosing not to prosecute Zimmerman. Even on the Straight Dope, supposedly a bastion for analysis and critical thinking, many reactions have seemed to be almost willful in their efforts to find some way to get Zimmerman. A poster in another thread happily announced if he were on a jury, he’d ignore the law and vote to convict Zimmerman regardless, because “justice” is more important to him than law. Others will react this way out of a sincere, but incorrect, understanding of concepts like “beyond a reasonable doubt.” This, too, has been exhibited here. So I’m not as sanguine as you are that the outrage will be limited or oeven largely directed where it belongs. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2229 "2012-05-31T16:15:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What I fear, though, is that some members of the community will believe it’s incompetent or racist authorities choosing not to prosecute Zimmerman. Which would undoubtedly be equally matched by outrage from a segment of the population were Zimmerman to be found guilty. A lack of critical thinking is not limited to one side. I would think that rather than lament the people who do not wish to be educated, it is significant that more than a few members of this board, and I include myself, did learn and moved from uninformed reactions because of the threads. ---
**Author:** ![DrumBum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@DrumBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrumBum)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2230 "2012-05-31T16:16:26Z")
I suppose [this news](http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international-business/wal-mart-leaves-conservative-american-legislative-council-advocacy-group/articleshow/13683535.cms) is related to this thread. From the article: > [@](#): > > Wal-Mart Stores Inc , the world’s largest retailer and biggest seller of firearms in the United States, is dropping out of a conservative advocacy group in the United States that has been criticized for promoting " Stand Your Ground" gun laws. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2231 "2012-05-31T16:27:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > IEven on the Straight Dope, supposedly a bastion for analysis and critical thinking, many reactions have seemed to be almost willful in their efforts to find some way to get Zimmerman. A poster in another thread happily announced if he were on a jury, he’d ignore the law and vote to convict Zimmerman regardless, because “justice” is more important to him than law. You have said that, given the evidence we have now, Zimmerman should not be convicted. Suppose the case goes to trial, there is no new evidence for the prosecution, yet Zimmerman is still convicted. Will you conclude that the system worked, and justice was done, or might we hear you say the case was decided wrongly? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2232 "2012-05-31T16:45:34Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > Which would undoubtedly be equally matched by outrage from a segment of the population were Zimmerman to be found guilty. A lack of critical thinking is not limited to one side. > > I would think that rather than lament the people who do not wish to be educated, it is significant that more than a few members of this board, and I include myself, did learn and moved from uninformed reactions because of the threads. That’s really great to hear. I often wonder if people are reading these things and changing their minds as a result. There’s no helpful dashboard below each thread to show how much it’s affecting opinions and conclusions of readers. So I really appreciate hearing you say this. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2233 "2012-05-31T16:49:15Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You have said that, given the evidence we have now, Zimmerman should not be convicted. Suppose the case goes to trial, there is no new evidence for the prosecution, yet Zimmerman is still convicted. Will you conclude that the system worked, and justice was done, or might we hear you say the case was decided wrongly? My first instinct would be that the jury impermissibly convicted – that is, the record didn’t establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt as a matter of law, but the jury convicted anyway. That’s why we have an appellate system, after all. And plenty of cases that are reversed on appeal because of precisely that - a “common sense, we know he’s guilty” conviction that doesn’t have legal sufficiency. I think that’s pretty unlikely, though. I’m virtually certain there is additional evidence. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2234 "2012-06-01T18:45:19Z")
I was watching the hearing and the judge decided that Zimmerman and his wife lied about the money in their paypal account during the bond hearing and revoked Zimmerman’s bond. He has 48 hours to report to the jail. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2235 "2012-06-01T19:01:44Z")
I wonder what else he lied about… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2236 "2012-06-01T19:09:13Z")
Turns out, Zimmerman surrendered an expired passport, while keeping a valid passport which he acquired two weeks after he killed Trayvon Martin. > **[George Zimmerman's Bond Revoked](https://abcnews.go.com/US/prosecution-requests-george-zimmermans-bond-revoked/story?id=16476183)** > > The prosecution in the George Zimmerman murder trial say they want his bond revoked because he lied about having no money and an expired passport. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2237 "2012-06-01T19:12:49Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Turns out, Zimmerman surrendered an expired passport, while keeping a valid passport which he acquired two weeks after he killed Trayvon Martin. > > [George Zimmerman's Bond Revoked - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/US/prosecution-requests-george-zimmermans-bond-revoked/story?id=16476183) Not good for Zimmerman. Now he’s going to serve a year in jail, more or less, regardless of how his trial turns out. ETA: Not exactly an accurate summary of the ABC News piece: > [@](#): > > Although one of his passports was due to expire in May, prosecutors said today, Zimmerman applied for a second passport, informing the State Department that the original had been lost lost or stolen. He was released on bond April 22. If he surrendered that passport, it would not have been expired. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2238 "2012-06-01T19:16:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s really great to hear. > > I often wonder if people are reading these things and changing their minds as a result. There’s no helpful dashboard below each thread to show how much it’s affecting opinions and conclusions of readers. So I really appreciate hearing you say this. Add me to the list of people learning from this thread. Of course my opinion has moved from “those incompetent racist bastards should be fired” to “holy shit our laws are fucked up,” so I won’t claim it’s a \*\*better \*\*opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2239 "2012-06-01T19:18:43Z")
I previously said there was no clear evidence he lied about the Paypal business. And there was not. Now, however, it seems clear he knew about the Paypal account at all relevant times, and deliberately misled the court about his finances. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2240 "2012-06-01T19:43:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > He was released on bond April 22. If he surrendered that passport, it would not have been expired. Right? No, because when the State Department issues a new passport, [the old one is invalidated](http://travel.state.gov/passport/forms/ds64/ds64_845.html), regardless of the face date of expiration. GZ submitted an invalid passport. I do not wish to engage in any pedantry about the meaning of “expired” versus “invalid”. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2241 "2012-06-01T19:46:03Z")
I guess it became apparent that he _had_ to know about the money. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=111) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=113)