# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 113
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2242 "2012-06-01T19:47:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I previously said there was no clear evidence he lied about the Paypal business. And there was not. > > Now, however, it seems clear he knew about the Paypal account at all relevant times, and deliberately misled the court about his finances. Sounds as if some of our conservative friends might have hitched themselves to the wrong wagon. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2243 "2012-06-01T20:19:49Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Sounds as if some of our conservative friends might have hitched themselves to the wrong wagon. To be fair, these seem like entirely discrete issues. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2244 "2012-06-01T20:25:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not good for Zimmerman. > > Now he’s going to serve a year in jail, more or less, regardless of how his trial turns out. I was watching the hearing and Judge Lester says he can request another bond hearing. There was also some mention that the state might bring charges against his wife for lying at the bond hearing. Apparently the state recorded the phone calls Zimmerman made from the prison to his wife. It sounds like media companies got most of what they asked for, but the defense gets 30 days to review and file motions before it is released. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2245 "2012-06-01T20:47:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not good for Zimmerman. > > Now he’s going to serve a year in jail, more or less, regardless of how his trial turns out. He is also [in violation of federal law](http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2002-title18/html/USCODE-2002-title18-partI-chap75-sec1542.htm)regarding false statements in a passport application, for which he could receive up to 15 years: > [@](#): > > **§ 1542. False statement in application and use of passport** > > Whoever willfully and knowingly makes any false statement in an application for passport with intent to induce or secure the issuance of a passport under the authority of the United States, either for his own use or the use of another, contrary to the laws regulating the issuance of passports or the rules prescribed pursuant to such laws; or– > > Whoever willfully and knowingly uses or attempts to use, or furnishes to another for use any passport the issue of which was secured in any way by reason of any false statement— > > Shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 25 years (if the offense was committed to facilitate an act of international terrorism (as defined in section 2331 of this title)), 20 years (if the offense was committed to facilitate a drug trafficking crime (as defined in section 929(a) of this title)), 10 years (in the case of the first or second such offense, if the offense was not committed to facilitate such an act of international terrorism or a drug trafficking crime), or 15 years (in the case of any other offense), or both. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2246 "2012-06-01T21:03:27Z")
You do have to wonder about his motivations with getting that new passport, then surrendering the old one, and lying about his finances to more easily secure bail. It sure does sound like someone who has good reason to believe that his case won’t go too well. He had to have at least considered that all that lying would come to light sooner or later with all the scrutiny on him. Did he plan to flee before that happened? Sure doesn’t look good, on multiple levels. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2247 "2012-06-01T21:16:24Z")
Could these lies be used at his trial to show he has credibility issues? Also, the fact that he was willing to break the law to acquire a second passport…is this evidence that he was attempting to flee prosecution? If so, is this likely to be brought up in trial? I’m reminded once again of Scott Peterson, and how he started sporting bleach-blonde hair after his wife disappeared. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2248 "2012-06-01T21:22:00Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > He is also [in violation of federal law](http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2002-title18/html/USCODE-2002-title18-partI-chap75-sec1542.htm)regarding false statements in a passport application, for which he could receive up to 15 years: There were no false statements. He misplaced his passport and then he found it. Judge Lester wasn’t upset. He compared it to misplacing your driver’s license. O’Mara went into some detail about what happened. Judge Lester was very upset about not reporting the Paypal money ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2249 "2012-06-01T22:12:25Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > There were no false statements. He misplaced his passport and then he found it. Judge Lester wasn’t upset. He compared it to misplacing your driver’s license. O’Mara went into some detail about what happened. Judge Lester was very upset about not reporting the Paypal money From the [ABC News link](http://abcnews.go.com/US/prosecution-requests-george-zimmermans-bond-revoked/story?id=16476183#.T8k8jNXZAto): “In recordings of conversations released today during a court hearing, Zimmerman and his wife, Shelly Zimmerman, cryptically talk about his second passport in a safety deposit box they shared.” I’d like to hear this simple explanation. Did Zimmerman mention his new but missing passport when he turned over the old one? Did he misplace his new and valid passport in that safety deposit box? It’s all very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2250 "2012-06-01T22:12:38Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > There were no false statements. He misplaced his passport and then he found it. Judge Lester wasn’t upset. He compared it to misplacing your driver’s license. O’Mara went into some detail about what happened. Judge Lester was very upset about not reporting the Paypal money The way [this](http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/01/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)reads > [@](#): > > Zimmerman spoke of the second passport while in the Seminole County Jail in a phone call to his wife that authorities recorded, Corey said. Court records provided a partial transcript: > > Zimmerman: “Do you know what? I think my passport is in that bag.” > > Shelly Zimmerman: “I have one for you in safety deposit box …” > > Zimmerman: “OK, you hold onto that.” I take that he intentionally held onto one - he may have not intentionally lied about needing a replacement - but that sounds very intentional on holding on to the replacement passport. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2251 "2012-06-01T22:19:01Z")
It can also be argued that the very act of submitting an invalid passport to the court is also a federal crime as wel as a state crime. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2252 "2012-06-02T00:05:07Z")
The fact that he was talking about an ill-gotten passport AND defense funds deposited in his bank account \* while knowingly being monitored\* should eliminate any doubt that Zimmerman is pathologically stupid and mind-boggling arrogant. I think there is something wrong with the way his brain is wired. Innocent explanations for the extra passport are a stretch, IMO. Turning over your passport is meant to keep you from leaving the country, and that purpose is subverted if you have an extra one that you don’t give up. If he lost the first one and found it later, then it has no business in a safe deposit box. Obviously, it would belong to the State, just like the other one. I’m really interested in learning about those text messages he sent. If his jail conversation is any indication, we are in for more hilarity. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2253 "2012-06-02T16:15:18Z")
Is it too much to hope that this will encourage the defense to do their part to have the trial sooner rather than later? Or is it a case of “Too bad, you’ve waived your right to a speedy trial and we’ll get to it when we get to it”? ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2254 "2012-06-02T18:01:11Z")
[QUOTE=ABC News] Circuit Court Judge Kenneth Lester [ordered him back in jail by Sunday afternoon](http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-ordered-back-jail/story?id=16481046#.T8pUILA7VMI) – a reaction to the surprise evidence introduced by the prosecution showing that Zimmerman held coded telephone conversations with his wife about the many tens of thousands of dollars he’d amassed his PayPal link opened on April 9 – and then told the court he was virtually penniless. [/QUOTE] This dude is like a white Kwame Kilpatrick. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2255 "2012-06-02T18:11:51Z")
Perhaps he killed Martin as Part 1 of an elaborate fundraising scheme. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2256 "2012-06-02T18:41:52Z")
I can’t see how the extra passport would benefit Zimmerman. Where could he use it? Certainly not at any U.S. border or airport. If he was planning to flee, I could see the benefit of a fake passport, not a real one. As for the money, I don’t think the Zimmermans are terribly bright. Did they really think their super secret code would stymie investigators? Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2257 "2012-06-02T19:46:09Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > I can’t see how the extra passport would benefit Zimmerman. Where could he use it? Certainly not at any U.S. border or airport. If he was planning to flee, I could see the benefit of a fake passport, not a real one. > > As for the money, I don’t think the Zimmermans are terribly bright. Did they really think their super secret code would stymie investigators? Yeesh. He probably had a passport card in addition to his passport. It would allow him to travel by car across the border to Canada or Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2258 "2012-06-02T21:13:15Z")
As I understand it, it was a duplicate. He lost the original, applied for a replacement and eventually found the original., I read elsewhere that is was ‘proof’ Zimmerman planned to flee before his trial, which is absurd. “Yes Mr. Zimmerman, did you pack your own luggage and does the court know that you are fleeing the United Sstates?” He probably wants a passport for whenever he is free to travel again. I can imagine he might want to be somewhere he is less recognizable. Peru, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2259 "2012-06-02T23:19:28Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > As I understand it, it was a duplicate. He lost the original, applied for a replacement and eventually found the original., > > I read elsewhere that is was ‘proof’ Zimmerman planned to flee before his trial, which is absurd. “Yes Mr. Zimmerman, did you pack your own luggage and does the court know that you are fleeing the United Sstates?” He probably wants a passport for whenever he is free to travel again. I can imagine he might want to be somewhere he is less recognizable. Peru, perhaps. This is stretching things, I think. Surrendering a passport means something to intelligent people. If he hadn’t been trying to get one over, he wouldn’t have been keeping it under wraps or talking about it in code. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2260 "2012-06-02T23:26:24Z")
agreed. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2261 "2012-06-02T23:57:01Z")
The passport discussion wasn’t in code, but hey, maybe he is dumb enough to think he could have used it. The judge didn’t seem concerned, oddly, but I’m sure it will be brought up at the next bond hearing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=112) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=114)