# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 114
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2262 "2012-06-03T00:32:52Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > The passport discussion wasn’t in code… Do we have a recording or transcripts? It’s generally reported as being a “cryptic” or “coded” conversation about the passport - this sounds like they were being cagey about it. On the other hand, the judge didn’t seem overly concerned about it, compared with the funds. I’d like to know exactly what was said. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2263 "2012-06-03T01:19:24Z")
Why did it take so long for the judge to learn about these phone calls? Does anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2264 "2012-06-03T02:19:05Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > This is stretching things, I think. Surrendering a passport means something to intelligent people. > > If he hadn’t been trying to get one over, he wouldn’t have been keeping it under wraps or talking about it in code. I agree. First, reading that the passport is lost two weeks after the shooting is… er…coincidental. And then applying for a replacement, getting it, finding the original, and then surrendering only the original as a condition of bail? All in innocence? No way. This sequence would have been fresh in his mind. He would have known he had to surrender both. I agree it doesn’t prove he intended to flee. But in my opinion, it means he was keeping his options open. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2265 "2012-06-03T12:29:58Z")
Zimmerman did not order a new passport after his release. The timeline goes like this: Original passport ordered in 2002, set to expire in 2012. Passport reported lost or stolen in 2004, replacement ordered, replacement set to expire in 2014. Lost, now invalid passport found sometime between 2004 and 2012. Just the sort of thing I do, find a lost item right after I replace it. Really, the existence of two passports seems to be a coincidence, but the taped conversation clearly shows that he deliberately submitted the invalid one. I think this passport business and the lies about the money shoot his credibility all to hell. His defense hinges on his account of Trayvon’s actions. How can anyone believe anything he says now? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2266 "2012-06-03T13:08:11Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > I think this passport business and the lies about the money shoot his credibility all to hell. His defense hinges on his account of Trayvon’s actions. How can anyone believe anything he says now? The prosecution will still have to show that he lied about his and Martin’s actions, and the fact that he lied about something else is irrelevant to that. However, in my opinion having seen how he’s acted here, it’s pretty likely that if he was lying about what happened, he will have made it obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2267 "2012-06-03T14:41:17Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > Zimmerman did not order a new passport after his release. The timeline goes like this: > > Original passport ordered in 2002, set to expire in 2012. > > Passport reported lost or stolen in 2004, replacement ordered, replacement set to expire in 2014. > > Lost, now invalid passport found sometime between 2004 and 2012. Just the sort of thing I do, find a lost item right after I replace it. Really, the existence of two passports seems to be a coincidence, but the taped conversation clearly shows that he deliberately submitted the invalid one. > > I think this passport business and the lies about the money shoot his credibility all to hell. His defense hinges on his account of Trayvon’s actions. How can anyone believe anything he says now? Did you believe him before this? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2268 "2012-06-03T14:58:46Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > He probably wants a passport for whenever he is free to travel again. I can imagine he might want to be somewhere he is less recognizable. Peru, perhaps. The only way he’ll be free to travel again is if he is acquited, which renders moot the whole surrendered passport issue. I don’t think the idea of him fleeing is absurd at all. He had a $135k in the bank with no intent to declare it to the court, a hidden passport stashed away in a safe deposit box, and a motive to run away. This combo is exactly why his bond needed to be revoked, as it indicates he can’t be trust to not flee. If you give a fool enough rope to hang himself, he will find a way to do just that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2269 "2012-06-03T15:59:08Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The only way he’ll be free to travel again is if he is acquited, which renders moot the whole surrendered passport issue. I’m not sure that’s true. He’s effectively lied to the court. Bricker can chime in but that may be prosecutable in unto itself. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2270 "2012-06-03T17:02:12Z")
I guess Zimmerman didn’t think he"d get caught with the second passport. It’s just remarkably stupid because there was no way he could use it. Unless he thought he would be free on bail without any monitoring equipment. It’s possible that he could have snuck into Mexico and taken a flight to…well, I’m not sure where. The judge’s lack of concern is mystifying. Zimmerman was clearly aware that he had two passports in the jailhouse phone call to hiis wife. He effectively surrendered an invalid passport and kept the replacement and the judge writes it off as simple absentmindedness. WTF? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2271 "2012-06-03T18:08:36Z")
[http://cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/6/3/george\_zimmerman\_tur.html](http://cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/6/3/george_zimmerman_tur.html) It looks like he is growing his hair out and looks quite a bit darker. Not looking like his booking pictures is probably a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2272 "2012-06-03T18:36:37Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > The judge’s lack of concern is mystifying. Zimmerman was clearly aware that he had two passports in the jailhouse phone call to hiis wife. He effectively surrendered an invalid passport and kept the replacement and the judge writes it off as simple absentmindedness. WTF? If you had actually watched the hearing, it is easy to understand why the judge wasn’t upset. > [@](#): > > De la Rionda argued that since Zimmerman lied about having a second passport, there is the chance he could lie again and possibly try to flee the country and stay with his family abroad. > > However, O’Mara argued that the second passport was found while Zimmerman and his wife were cleaning out their house. The document was immediately given to O’Mara, who accidentally let a month pass before revealing he had the document. [http://www.kpho.com/story/18677692/judge-revokes-zimmermans-bond](http://www.kpho.com/story/18677692/judge-revokes-zimmermans-bond) The judge just didn’t buy the prosecution’s assertion that Zimmerman and his wife were discussing the 2nd passport in code while he was in jail. O’Mara had the passport, not Zimmerman. I think Judge Lester was upset about the lies about the Paypal funds. I wouldn’t be surprised is Shellie Zimmerman gets indicted for lying about it. Since Zimmerman knew about it, he might be looking at a conspiracy charge for suborning perjury. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2273 "2012-06-03T18:54:37Z")
If O’Mara had the passport, then why did the wife say it was in the safe deposit box? That article asserts as if its a fact that O’Mara had the passport and “accidentally” forgot to turn it over. But who is the source for this fact and why should we believe it? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2274 "2012-06-03T19:13:44Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I think Judge Lester was upset about the lies about the Paypal funds. I wouldn’t be surprised is Shellie Zimmerman gets indicted for lying about it. Since Zimmerman knew about it, he might be looking at a conspiracy charge for suborning perjury. Wasn’t the paypal money known about almost immediately after the bond hearing? why the delay? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2275 "2012-06-03T19:24:19Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > That article asserts as if its a fact that O’Mara had the passport and “accidentally” forgot to turn it over. But who is the source for this fact and why should we believe it? According to the [motion](http://www.scribd.com/doc/95593851/State-v-Zimmerman-Motion-to-revoke-bond), in a conversation three days before the bond hearing Zimmerman told his wife “I think my passport is in that bag,” she replied “I have one for you in the safety deposit box,” and Zimmerman said “Okay, you hold onto that.” When did O’Mara end up with it? Regardless of how it eventually shook out, it’s hard to believe this was an entirely innocent exchange. Canwe reconcile the housecleaning explanation with concrete evidence that both Zimmerman and his wife were aware of a second, valid passport when they stood in court **three days later** , when it was asserted that the expiring passport was his only passport? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2276 "2012-06-03T19:26:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Wasn’t the paypal money known about almost immediately after the bond hearing? why the delay? Maybe “known about” for the general public wasn’t enough for the judge, who wanted thorough documentation from the prosecution. All that paper stuff, the calendar delays, etc., take time. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2277 "2012-06-03T19:39:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Wasn’t the paypal money known about almost immediately after the bond hearing? why the delay? I suspect most of the delay was caused by the delay in actually listening to the jailhouse recordings and realizing their import. Just having the funds wasn’t a crime. It was lying about them under oath. If Zimmerman hadn’t told O’Mara and O’Mara told the court, then it is possible that the prosecution wouldn’t have bothered to review the recordings or wouldn’t have been listening for the right things. When we discussed this before, we assumed that the prosecution would need access to Paypal’s records to prove Zimmerman knew about the money. I don’t think anybody suggested that Zimmerman and his wife would be stupid enough to discuss it during jailhouse phone calls. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2278 "2012-06-03T22:44:22Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > [http://cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/6/3/george\_zimmerman\_tur.html](http://cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/6/3/george_zimmerman_tur.html) > > It looks like he is growing his hair out and looks quite a bit darker. Not looking like his booking pictures is probably a good idea. Surprising how small he looks. The top of Zimmerman’s head barely clears the minivans roof. Considering Trayvon’s 7-11 video, in which he appears to be well over six feet, unless they shrunk the counters, and broad shouldered, it couldn’t have been much of a fight. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2279 "2012-06-03T22:50:41Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > Surprising how small he looks. The top of Zimmerman’s head barely clears the minivans roof. Considering Trayvon’s 7-11 video, in which he appears to be well over six feet, unless they shrunk the counters, and broad shouldered, it couldn’t have been much of a fight. Oh, give it up. According to the autopsy report, Trayvon was 5’11 and weighed only 158 pounds. That is a very skinny kid. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2280 "2012-06-03T22:53:12Z")
Trayvon Martin was 5’ 11’’. George Zimmerman is 5’ 9’’. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2281 "2012-06-03T23:21:47Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/oqLOeuBwJOI/hqdefault.jpg "7-11 surveillance video shows Trayvon Martin") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqLOeuBwJOI) No way he’s 5’11’’ . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=113) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=115)