# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 125
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2482 "2012-06-13T18:48:47Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Well DUH. well as long as you agree that your premise is wrong I guess there is no debate. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2483 "2012-06-13T18:51:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > well as long as you agree that your premise is wrong I guess there is no debate. It’s so cute to watch you argue with yourself. I’ll bet you hardly ever lose. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2484 "2012-06-13T18:52:15Z")
Your premise is that Zimmerman is not a fool? Your premise is that Zimmerman act according to his lawyer’s advice? There is pretty strong evidence against both of those. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2485 "2012-06-13T18:59:08Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Your premise is that Zimmerman is not a fool? Your premise is that Zimmerman act according to his lawyer’s advice? > > There is pretty strong evidence against both of those. You’re arguing that he would fall for a foolish attempt at leverage so you’re agreeing with me that there is no leverage. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2486 "2012-06-13T19:21:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So if the prosecution asks sloppy questions, the defense has no duty to reveal the Paypal account when asked directly _ **by the judge** _, “Are you saying you have no money?” There’s no question in my mind that Shellie Zimmerman’s answers under both direct and cross-examination were misleading and perjurious: > [@Direct examination of SZ by O'Mara](#): > > Q. Other major assets that you have which you can liquidate reasonably to assist in coming up with money for a bond? > A. None that I know of. > Q. i have discussed with you the pending motion to have your husband George declared indigent for cost, have I not? ’ > A. Yes, you have. > Q. And is - - are you of any financial means where you can assist in those costs? > A. Uhm, not - - not that I’m aware of. “Any financial means” is an extremely broad term. Ms. Zimmerman was well aware of large amounts of money. She denied being aware of “any financial means” which could go towards a bond cost. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2487 "2012-06-13T19:28:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There’s no question in my mind that Shellie Zimmerman’s answers under both direct and cross-examination were misleading and perjurious: > > “Any financial means” is an extremely broad term. Ms. Zimmerman was well aware of large amounts of money. She denied being aware of “any financial means” which could go towards a bond cost. Do you have an opinion on whether the prosecution will try to use the charge against her as leverage in a plea bargain with George? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2488 "2012-06-13T19:59:57Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Do you have an opinion on whether the prosecution will try to use the charge against her as leverage in a plea bargain with George? They should not. But I don’t know enough about the players involved to say whether they will or won’t. Theoretically, her offense is her offense; the state should not premise a deal for her on a deal on a completely unrelated crime for someone else. So I have no opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2489 "2012-06-13T20:13:47Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The state has a very large interest in threatening her with the largest possible penalty in order to leverage a plea from her husband, whether or not they can ultimately deliver on that threat. > > It is a huge case to Angela Corey. She’s the one who said she didn’t need a grand jury in order to decide on whether or not to charge Zimmerman. She’s the one who leveled the murder 2 charge, which many lawyers think was a serious overreach. > > A different set of lawyers said she leveled the harshest possible charges as leverage for negotiating a plea bargain to lower charges later. This charge against the wife is like a gift to Corey – another (and pretty strong) bargaining chip with her husband (assuming he actually loves her). There’s a very good likelihood he believes in his own innocence, perhaps rightly so given the nature of the SYG law, and would be willing to fight the charges rather than go to prison for a crime he believes he didn’t commit. But he probably understands that his wife DID commit perjury, and faces a possible prison term for trying to help him, and that changes the whole dynamics of future negotiations. CASE 16-2011-CF-004612, State Versus Eric Randall, Angela Corey gave the defendant a choice 25 years for aggravated assault, with a deadly weapon, as claimed by an ex-girlfriend, but never proven beyond her word. He took the plea bargain. 90 days in jail, suspended. Don’t know about Corey. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2490 "2012-06-13T20:18:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > They should not. > > But I don’t know enough about the players involved to say whether they will or won’t. Theoretically, her offense is her offense; the state should not premise a deal for her on a deal on a completely unrelated crime for someone else. > > So I have no opinion. What’s the expected sentence for perjury. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2491 "2012-06-13T21:10:14Z")
[http://www.teapartynation.com/forum/topics/pushing-the-limits-of-human-stupidity?xg\_source=activity](http://www.teapartynation.com/forum/topics/pushing-the-limits-of-human-stupidity?xg_source=activity) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2492 "2012-06-13T21:20:56Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > [http://www.teapartynation.com/forum/topics/pushing-the-limits-of-human-stupidity?xg\_source=activity](http://www.teapartynation.com/forum/topics/pushing-the-limits-of-human-stupidity?xg_source=activity) If this is all true, I can’t say it surprises me. It supports my hunch that Zimmerman isn’t so broken up about his wife being in trouble that he’d cop a plea to save her. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2493 "2012-06-13T21:27:26Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If this is all true, I can’t say it surprises me. It supports my hunch that Zimmerman isn’t so broken up about his wife being in trouble that he’d cop a plea to save her. There’s very little teeth in the perjury charge. There’s nothing to be gained by pleading to a homicide and everything to lose. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2494 "2012-06-13T22:24:06Z")
[Breaking news](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/13/judge-zimmerman-statements-can-be-released995406/) (I think) A judge has ruled that George Zimmerman’s statements to police will be released to the public – apparently they are not unduly prejudicial. This may be good news for the defense. I believe this is a ruling on the motion **Larry Mudd** referenced upthread – prosecution has argued that the statements can be considered confessional in nature. It may be that the judge does not agree with that. Also to be released – crime scene photos, test results(?), and the recordings of Zimmerman’s calls from his cell. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2495 "2012-06-13T22:30:26Z")
Actually, let me take that back a step. The Fox story – the only one I’ve found about this ruling, has judge Lester saying “may” or “can” be released, not “shall” or will". So I dunno maybe there’s one or more additional hoops to jump through before any of these releases happen. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2496 "2012-06-13T22:35:31Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Actually, let me take that back a step. The Fox story – the only one I’ve found about this ruling, has judge Lester saying “may” or “can” be released, not “shall” or will". So I dunno maybe there’s one or more additional hoops to jump through before any of these releases happen. I don’t think there are any more hoops. If the judge says they can be released, and the Florida law says they must be released unless the judge says they can’t - that means they will be released. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2497 "2012-06-13T22:38:02Z")
OK, I found a [CNN story](http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/13/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html) confirming the Fox one, but asserting positively that the information WILL be released. And it will include the autopsy report, for the more macabre minded among us. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2498 "2012-06-13T22:44:58Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > [http://www.teapartynation.com/forum/topics/pushing-the-limits-of-human-stupidity?xg\_source=activity](http://www.teapartynation.com/forum/topics/pushing-the-limits-of-human-stupidity?xg_source=activity) Don’t you just love how all of Zimmerman’s problems–including his wife being charged with perjury–are all Al Sharpton’s fault? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2499 "2012-06-13T22:57:17Z")
I guess the text messages stay sealed? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2500 "2012-06-13T22:58:09Z")
As a reminder (thank you **Larry Mudd** ), [here is the motion](http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/zimmerman_state_motion.pdf) from the prosecution that the judge ruled on. The defense filed a similar motion to keep the evidence sealed, no doubt for different reasons. According to the news stories, about the only things to be held back are the names and addresses of witnesses. So far, I haven’t found any links to the actual text of the decision. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2501 "2012-06-13T22:59:48Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > [Breaking news](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/13/judge-zimmerman-statements-can-be-released995406/) (I think) > > A judge has ruled that George Zimmerman’s statements to police will be released to the public – apparently they are not unduly prejudicial. This may be good news for the defense. I believe this is a ruling on the motion **Larry Mudd** referenced upthread – prosecution has argued that the statements can be considered confessional in nature. It may be that the judge does not agree with that. Also to be released – crime scene photos, test results(?), and the recordings of Zimmerman’s calls from his cell. At the last evidence release, didn’t the judge say there was exculpatory evidence in there? Should be interesting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=124) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=126)