# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 128
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2542 "2012-06-20T21:55:18Z")
[About the Clubhouse video (nothing exciting) - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmXaG9iDQv4&feature=player_embedded) The clubhouse videos turned out to have little value. A lawyer once told me eighty to ninety percent of “evidence” in discovery isn’t really “evidence.” I’m beginning to believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2543 "2012-06-20T22:20:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > movies and book deals? About what? About his terrible ordeal as a selfless patriot defending liberty for us all. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2544 "2012-06-20T23:12:47Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No, it isn’t, not if you understand even the slightest about human psychology. That’s denial. Pure, unfettered denial. He knows that everything is going to suck so he’s trying to look at the bright side. What exactly has GZ said or done to make you think he knows everything is going to suck? I see no such evidence. Even if you refuse to take his “I’m excited” at face value, you have no reason to conclude he is secretly mourning the loss of his life or Martin’s. That’s giving him a benefit of the doubt that his very own words indicates he doesn’t deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2545 "2012-06-20T23:24:47Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > What exactly has GZ said or done to make you think he knows everything is going to suck? I see no such evidence. he insisted that his wife buy bullet proof vests. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2546 "2012-06-20T23:26:12Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > About his terrible ordeal as a selfless patriot defending liberty for us all. He wasn’t defending liberty. He was defending himself during an extended beating. Now if he stopped someone else from getting the same beating you’d have 15 minutes of fame. He’s fucked regardless of the trial outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2547 "2012-06-20T23:32:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > He wasn’t defending liberty. Of course not; but that is what the movie will be about. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2548 "2012-06-20T23:41:11Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And that’s a law we both disagree with, so that means we both believe that said procedure is not appropriate. If you’re going to start saying that it was appropriate that he wasn’t arrested, and self-defense being an affirmative defense, then I am going to have to take back saying that you convinced me to agree with you. I think we’re using “appropriate” in different ways. The law is bad. But it’s not appropriate to ignore the law even if you disagree with it. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2549 "2012-06-20T23:51:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > he insisted that his wife buy bullet proof vests. Right. Now tell me how this equates to Zimmerman being upset over his life being over. ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2550 "2012-06-21T00:38:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Zimmerman was locked up before he lied to the court. You can’t say, “No…” in response to a claim that Zimmerman was locked up for defending himself by claims he was locked up for lingo the court. He was initially locked up for what he says was defending himself – right? When you add “what he says was” before defending himself then yes, of course I agree, but this is what I get for not scrolling up after hitting “View First Unread” to make sure I didn’t miss any posts – like the one [you with the face](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15185025&postcount=2523) made – before contributing. I don’t doubt that Steophan’s right when he imagines that Zimmerman spent his first stint behind bars feeling any remorse he had over killing Martin tempered by being locked up “for defending himself”. What I was (needlessly) disputing was the reason he’s _currently_ behind bars. My bad. > [@Poochey](#): > > He did fdollow the advice of the 911 dispatcher, who told Zimmerman to keep an eye on Martin. Zimmerman said okay. How was he gtoing to keep an eye on Martin if Martin ran away? So Zimmerman followed him. The dispatcher heard the heavy breathing, realized Zimmerman was running, and advised him not to. Zimmerman said okay, and the heavy breathing and wind whistling past the phone ceased, so he was obeying the dispatcher. If the dispatcher had told Zimmerman that they didn’t need him anymore, the police would take over, there might have been a different outcome. Zimmerman followed _some_ of the advice of the [dispatcher](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/us/911-tapes-released-in-killing-of-florida-teenager.html) and was told that the police were on the way to meet him; I’d like to give Zimmerman enough credit to figure out that meant the police intended to “take over” for him. Perhaps the dispatcher didn’t spell out that for him because when he responded “okay” in response to “Okay, we don’t need you to do that”, the dispatcher thought Zimmerman meant “Okay, I won’t follow him then and will wait for the police to call me for my location like I just asked” rather than “Okay, but I’m going to follow him anyway”. ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2551 "2012-06-21T00:54:13Z")
Argh, Zimmerman said “okay” BEFORE he asked the police to call him for a meet-up location. But still! _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2552 "2012-06-21T01:44:41Z")
> [@PotLuck](#): > > Argh, Zimmerman said “okay” BEFORE he asked the police to call him for a meet-up location. But still! _sigh_ It should be pretty baffling to an impartial jury if the prosecution claims Trayvon was found 35 yards from Zimmerman’s SUV, but 70 yards from the townhouse Trayvon was visiting. Rather slow speed following. A turtle could have beaten them both. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2553 "2012-06-21T01:56:58Z")
What remains baffling is how Zimmerman and Martin ended up meeting each other behind the houses on Twin Trees, no where near the street where Zimmerman supposedly says Martin ambushed him. The prosecution doesn’t have to explain why Martin took his time getting home, because Martin doesnt have a statement that has to be reconciled with anything else. Zimmerman does. It will be most interesting to see him try to reconcile his story with the location of the shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2554 "2012-06-21T02:11:38Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > What remains baffling is how Zimmerman and Martin ended up meeting each other behind the houses on Twin Trees, no where near the street where Zimmerman supposedly says Martin ambushed him. Link? to Zimmerman’s statement as to where Martin “ambushed” him. In fact, please give link to Zimmerman’s statement that Martin “ambushed” him anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2555 "2012-06-21T03:07:47Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > What remains baffling is how Zimmerman and Martin ended up meeting each other behind the houses on Twin Trees, no where near the street where Zimmerman supposedly says Martin ambushed him. > > The prosecution doesn’t have to explain why Martin took his time getting home, because Martin doesnt have a statement that has to be reconciled with anything else. Zimmerman does. It will be most interesting to see him try to reconcile his story with the location of the shooting. It’s not that he took his time going home, he WAS home. The altercation was 300 feet away. If Martin did indeed go between the condo buildings and Zimmerman followed then he was moving away from Martin’s house and toward his car. But as has been repeatedly pointed out, none of that matters beyond the eye witness and physical evidence of the assault. Did it take place - yes or no. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2556 "2012-06-21T06:23:43Z")
FWIW,[the city of Sanford has decided to fire police chief Bill Lee](http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-case-police-chief-bill-lee-permanently-022700840--abc-news-topstories.html). He was already taking what had been characterized as a voluntary leave of absence. I can’t say whether this was a result of analysis of the police actions and decisions related to the Martin killing, or just a politically expedient thing to do. I can only assume the latter from the linked article, as it contains no claims of poor performance or mismanagement. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2557 "2012-06-21T13:20:35Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I can’t say whether this was a result of analysis of the police actions and decisions related to the Martin killing, or just a politically expedient thing to do. I can only assume the latter from the linked article, as it contains no claims of poor performance or mismanagement. I wouldn’t assume that until we see all the evidence the prosecution has. If Zimmerman’s statement is riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions that scream probable cause and yet Lee (or someone else) prevented Serino from making an arrest, then this could easily explain why he was fired. In the early days of this case, while the investigation supposedly was still in progress, Lee matter-of-factly stated that Zimmerman had acted in self-defense. This kind of bone headedness from law enforcement should have gotten him fired just by itself, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2558 "2012-06-21T13:24:23Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I wouldn’t assume that until we see all the evidence the prosecution has. If Zimmerman’s statement is riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions that scream probable cause and yet Lee (or someone else) prevented Serino from making an arrest, then this could easily explain why he was fired. > > In the early days of this case, while the investigation supposedly was still in progress, Lee matter-of-factly stated that Zimmerman had acted in self-defense. This kind of bone headedness from law enforcement should have gotten him fired just by itself, IMO. Zimmerman’s interrogation video has been released. I didn’t see any inconsistencies and contradictions. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2559 "2012-06-21T13:28:02Z")
> **[George Zimmerman: Trayvon Martin threatened my life | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2012/06/21/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html)** > > In an initial interview with police after the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman described a life-and-death struggle. PDF of full statement is first link in the article. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2560 "2012-06-21T13:31:39Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If Martin did indeed go between the condo buildings and Zimmerman followed then he was moving away from Martin’s house and toward his car. How do you figure this? You’d have to know what direction Zimmerman was traveling in when he encountered Martin, and I don’t think you know that. You may think you do, but you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2561 "2012-06-21T13:38:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Zimmerman’s interrogation video has been released. I didn’t see any inconsistencies and contradictions. Read the statement and try to tell me with a straight face that there isn’t anything glaringly wrong with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=127) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=129)