# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 130
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2582 "2012-06-21T19:08:14Z")
Watch the video. Zimmerman never walked down the center area at all. He walked across the top of the Tee to get a house number on Retreat View and then was walking back to his truck when Martin spoke to him. [http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/zimmerman-reenactment-on-feb-27/vcQxd/](http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/zimmerman-reenactment-on-feb-27/vcQxd/) ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2583 "2012-06-21T19:19:40Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Watch the video. Zimmerman never walked down the center area at all. He walked across the top of the Tee to get a house number on Retreat View and then was walking back to his truck when Martin spoke to him. > > [http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/zimmerman-reenactment-on-feb-27/vcQxd/](http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/zimmerman-reenactment-on-feb-27/vcQxd/) If Zimmerman was never behind the houses, then how did the shooting happen there, and why was Martin’s body found there? Doesn’t add up. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2584 "2012-06-21T19:28:49Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > If Zimmerman was never behind the houses, then how did the shooting happen there, and why was Martin’s body found there? Doesn’t add up. Watch the video. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2585 "2012-06-21T19:29:13Z")
It’s indisputable that Zimmerman was in the center area, so if he says he didn’t go back there, then we have to view that as a glaringly obvious falsehood. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2586 "2012-06-21T19:29:47Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > The surveillance video from the clubhouse was a bust. DD’s claim that Trayvon was out of the rain inside the small mailbox building is rather dubious. If Trayvon was there, and Zimmerman was driving directly to the gate from his place, Zimmerman would never have seen him, since he wouldn’t have driven past that area. If Zimmerman was actually going shopping AFAICT, GZ saw TM before that point. Could be. Just sayin. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2587 "2012-06-21T19:32:28Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > If Zimmerman was never behind the houses, then how did the shooting happen there, and why was Martin’s body found there? Doesn’t add up. Iirc, GZ said that during the altercation, they moved further down the walkway. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2588 "2012-06-21T19:42:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What do you think is glaringly wrong with it? And by “glaringly” I mean “contradicted by some known evidence”. > Regards, > Shodan I don’t think glaring is the right word. But I can’t figure out a few things. Where was Z when he got off the phone w/ the dispatcher/operator/ w/e? I had thought that he had travelled from his truck for 15 seconds or so before he was told that wasn’t needed. Then he talked on the phone for about another minute and a half before getting off the phone. Yet in his re-enactment, he seems to say that he made it all the way to the other side of the block while he was still on the phone and that TM jumped him while he was walking back to his truck. So that’s a 15 second 100yard dash while talking on the phone–not too shabby. Then he stands on the other side of the block for a minute and a half talking to the dispatcher? From GZ’s telling, the attack occurred during the time it took him to walk back across that block. Yet the timeline from the prosecutor gives GZ 2 minutes of time between when he got off the phone and when he met up w/ TM. The timeline from the Seminole County Sheriff give GZ 4 minutes of time between when he got off the phone and when he met up w/ TM. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2589 "2012-06-21T19:55:34Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Watch the video. You just said that Zimmerman was never there in the center area behind the houses, but that is exactly where the body was, and where the shooting occurred. I was addressing your assertion, so you need to defend that, not just wave the video about dismissively. Either your assertion is not shown to be the case in the video, and he didn’t say he was never there, or the statement that he made to that effect in the video is wrong. So which one is wrong, the statement in the video or your assertion about it? ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2590 "2012-06-21T19:56:38Z")
Zimmerman claims Martin jumped out of the bushes. Did anyone search these bushes for fibers consistent with Martin’s clothing? Did an examination of Martin’s clothing reveal any evidence of contact with these bushes? Of course it was raining and that could have complicated or compromised physical evidence. Second. In my experience it is very common that callers to 911 do not know the address of an incident, particularly when it occurs at a location other than their residence. VERY common. Probably the majority of the calls I answer. Heck, many callers do not know their own address. When a caller says they don’t know or are unsure of an address then there are various techniques to try. The call taker asked him to meet the responding officer at a specific location. Common technique. Zimmerman asked that the officer call him. Also a common technique. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2591 "2012-06-21T20:15:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, he informed the dispatcher that he didn’t know what street he was. He also says he was looking for a street sign. He never said he told the dispatcher he was looking for a street sign. Apparently the police initially went to the wrong address. If they hadn’t, and arrived just a little bit earlier, there would have been no shooting. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2592 "2012-06-21T20:27:58Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Zimmerman claims Martin jumped out of the bushes. I am not so sure about that. He said on eth re-enactment video that he didn’t know where M came from because he wasn’t looking that direction. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2593 "2012-06-21T20:29:35Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > Apparently the police initially went to the wrong address. If they hadn’t, and arrived just a little bit earlier, there would have been no shooting. What makes that apparent? I don’t recall that being noted in any of the documents I have read. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2594 "2012-06-21T20:39:59Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > What makes that apparent? > I don’t recall that being noted in any of the documents I have read. Make that the front of the townhouse, and not the back. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2595 "2012-06-21T20:56:22Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You just said that Zimmerman was never there in the center area behind the houses, but that is exactly where the body was, and where the shooting occurred. I was addressing your assertion, so you need to defend that, not just wave the video about dismissively. Either your assertion is not shown to be the case in the video, and he didn’t say he was never there, or the statement that he made to that effect in the video is wrong. So which one is wrong, the statement in the video or your assertion about it? What I said was that Zimmerman never walked in that area. During the struggle they ended up a little bit south of that. Martin’s body was a little further south after Zimmerman pushed him off. From what I recall that is consistent with the actual crime scene photos. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2596 "2012-06-21T21:01:48Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > FWIW,[the city of Sanford has decided to fire police chief Bill Lee](http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-case-police-chief-bill-lee-permanently-022700840--abc-news-topstories.html). He was already taking what had been characterized as a voluntary leave of absence. I can’t say whether this was a result of analysis of the police actions and decisions related to the Martin killing, or just a politically expedient thing to do. I can only assume the latter from the linked article, as it contains no claims of poor performance or mismanagement. It’s probably because they had Martin’s telephone on-hand at the time his Dad called in a missing person’s report. It took them a day to figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2597 "2012-06-21T21:15:58Z")
Looking at his reenactment now. More holes. - He says when Martin ran off and he lost sight of him, the dispatcher asked him whether he could go to a place where he could see him. Zimmerman said yes, and this is supposedly when Zimmerman drove his truck away from the clubhouse to go find him again. Nothing in the early part of the dispatcher call indicates this happened. In fact, on the tape, Zimmerman steadliy describes every major feature of the kid as if he’s dissecting him. -He claims he told the dispatcher that Martin was circling his car. We know this didn’t happen. What’s funny is that he neglects to point out what Martin did after he did all this circling business…he apparently glossed over this important detail so that he can talk about _how OMG he didn’t know what street he was on! Isn’t that amazing!_ -Very little of what he relayed about his conversation with the dispatcher matches up with the recording. He made it sound like the dispatcher is the one who goaded him into looking for where Martin was, when that wasn’t true. The dispatcher was only concerned about pinpointing _Zimmerman’s_ location, and in fact told Zimmerman not to follow him shortly after Martin runs off. -He said Martin repeatedly hit Zimmerman in the face. Why did Martin’s fists not have any corresponding injuries then? -Why did he say he pushed Martin’s hands apart after he killed him? He emphasizes this over and over, even going so far to explain \*why \*he did this. But Martin’s hands were found tucked under his body when the cops showed up. This is a weird thing to lie about, but it’s hard to see how it could be anything other than a lie, given how adamant he is about it. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2598 "2012-06-21T21:19:28Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Iirc, GZ said that during the altercation, they moved further down the walkway. GZ never says this happened during the reenactment. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2599 "2012-06-21T22:49:38Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > GZ never says this happened during the reenactment. I recall hearing it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2600 "2012-06-21T22:53:14Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > He never told the dispatcher that Martin “fled” and then reemerged. Forget about the circling. It’s clear on the call that Zimmerman never loses sight of the kid until \*after \*we hear him get out of the car. This coincides with the video. He told the dispatcher that he was heading toward the other entrance which translates to traveling down the road away from the clubhouse. In the video he said Martin cut through between the houses. That coincides with the direction he said Martin was traveling. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Who are you fooling? This is what his statement said: > > He never told the dispatcher he was looking for a street sign. If anything, he did the opposite by evading the dispatcher’s request for directions. He didn’t evade anything. He was very specific as to where to meet him: “Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck.” he just didn’t have the name of the street. You’re literally making stuff up. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Sustained yelling lasted for close to 30 or 40 seconds prior to the gun went off. It never sounded muffled or from a person with a compromised breathing. This is strong evidence that it was not Zimmerman. Again, you don’t know how long he had his hand over his mouth. He didn’t say anything about an extended period in any of the testimony. You might have listened to [the 911 call](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2yfVrVKRxU) before you posted. You can hear that it’s not continuous. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2601 "2012-06-21T23:02:31Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > -Why did he say he pushed Martin’s hands apart after he killed him? He emphasizes this over and over, even going so far to explain \*why \*he did this. But Martin’s hands were found tucked under his body when the cops showed up. This is a weird thing to lie about, but it’s hard to see how it could be anything other than a lie, given how adamant he is about it. He asked for help to restrain Martin. That implies he’s still alive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=129) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=131)