# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 134
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2662 "2012-06-22T23:02:36Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yeah right. Keep telling yourself that. > > I am still holding out a $100 bet that Zimmerman will not be convicted of 2nd degree murder. Are you sure enough to take the bet? Thoroughly unimpressive. Maybe if you held out that bet about him not being convicted of the lesser included offense of manslaughter, then I might be mildly impressed. But I don’t think even Angela Corey would take your current bet - that’s how lame it is. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2663 "2012-06-22T23:17:15Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Thoroughly unimpressive. Maybe if you held out that bet about him not being convicted of the lesser included offense of manslaughter, then I might be mildly impressed. > > But I don’t think even Angela Corey would take your current bet - that’s how lame it is. So you think Angela Corey charged him with a crime she knows she cannot convict him on, right? That’s an abuse of power on her part, then. As for manslaughter - ok. Want to make that bet? Loser has to pay $100 to the charity the winner picks. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2664 "2012-06-22T23:29:35Z")
> [@PotLuck](#): > > I can’t speak for **you with the face** but I think that’s a sucker bet. I believe that Zimmerman will face no legal consequences for his actions and will eventually begin a lucrative media tour as a misunderstood victim of unavoidable circumstance. That doesn’t mean I think that’s what _should_ happen. Lucrative media tour? Care to hazard a guess as to what that might entail? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2665 "2012-06-22T23:38:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If, as ywtf claims, “very little” of Zimmerman’s testimony matches the evidence, then Zimmerman should, and will, be convicted. Should be a cakewalk for the prosecution. right? Not if the jury pool is taken from the same population of idiots who are calling Zimmerman a hero right now. Strong evidence, sadly, is never a guarantee of a conviction. Maybe you should go look at some famous court cases in recent years and tell me if those acquittals were due to innocence. It is quite amusing, though. Early on in this saga, folks were predicting that Zimmerman would not be arrested because he was too clean. When he not only was arrested but charged with murder, then the prediction became that the judge would reject the affidavit. When that didnt happened, the prediction became that Zimmerman is gonna walk because under the SYG he can’t be touched. When are y’all gonna stop with these kinds of predictions? If I were you, I wouldnt even assume SYG is in play. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2666 "2012-06-23T00:49:45Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So you think Angela Corey charged him with a crime she knows she cannot convict him on, right? That’s an abuse of power on her part, then. Did you just wake up from a coma, or have you been decrying this abuse of prosecutorial power since well before Zimmerman killed an unarmed teen? Because prosecutors have been over-charging defendants as a matter of routine strategy for a long, long time. Certainly, even you can’t be that blind in your defense of Zimmerman to not realize that this isn’t some new tactic they dusted off just to “victimize” him. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2667 "2012-06-23T01:00:53Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Did you just wake up from a coma, or have you been decrying this abuse of prosecutorial power since well before Zimmerman killed an unarmed teen? > > Because prosecutors have been over-charging defendants as a matter of routine strategy for a long, long time. Certainly, even you can’t be that blind in your defense of Zimmerman to not realize that this isn’t some new tactic they dusted off just to “victimize” him. Overcharging is prosecutorial misconduct. “Others do it too” is not an excuse for misconduct. Didn’t your mother teach you that? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2668 "2012-06-23T01:25:43Z")
When it comes to the law, “others do it too” does actually mean that it is NOT misconduct - it is routine business as usual that you are only now pointing out in a rather weak and transparent attempt to malign those who seek to punish Zimmerman for his actions. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2669 "2012-06-23T01:48:46Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > When it comes to the law, “others do it too” does actually mean that it is NOT misconduct - it is routine business as usual that you are only now pointing out in a rather weak and transparent attempt to malign those who seek to punish Zimmerman for his actions. Ah I see your mother didn’t teach you that “others do it too” is not a valid excuse for misconduct. So - if I show you legal research papers that state that overcharging is prosecutorial misconduct, will that convince you? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2670 "2012-06-23T01:51:50Z")
I figured out why the State has included those clubhouse videos as evidence. They reveal another contradiction in Z’s reenactment story. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2671 "2012-06-23T02:20:17Z")
You just gonna leave the rest of us hanging? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2672 "2012-06-23T02:24:09Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > You just gonna leave the rest of us hanging? The [DailyKos page](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/21/1101850/-Videos-show-Zimmerman-walking-around-the-clubhouse) from which \*\*ywtf \*\* gleaned that info apparently is not there anymore. So it is hard for him to expand on his terse post. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2673 "2012-06-23T02:29:21Z")
Did you watch the reenactment video? He claims he pulled up into a parking spot at the clubhouse shortly after he spotted Martin. Then he supposedly sat there for several moments before backing out and driving down Twin Trees. Clubhouse footage should have picked up his headlights, if this is what he actually did. But according to **Terr** that footage shows hardly anything at all. Want to double check this, Terr? I told you I’d take your word about that footage. Don’t make me regret that move. Eta: I didn’t get that from DailyKos. Believe it or not, some people are actually able to come up with their own ideas. Crazy, I know. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2674 "2012-06-23T02:31:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Ah I see your mother didn’t teach you that “others do it too” is not a valid excuse for misconduct. There aren’t enough “:rolleyes:” in the world for you. It’s not even a matter of providing a valid excuse - it is not misconduct. > [@](#): > > So - if I show you legal research papers that state that overcharging is prosecutorial misconduct, will that convince you? No, not even close. Once you show me that less than the majority of prosecutors employ this tactic, then maybe. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2675 "2012-06-23T02:35:13Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Did you watch the reenactment video? He claims he pulled up into a parking spot at the clubhouse shortly after he spotted Martin. Then he supposedly sat there for several moments before backing out and driving down Twin Trees. > > Clubhouse footage should have picked up his headlights, if this is what he actually did. But according to **Terr** that footage shows hardly anything at all. Yes. Are the cameras on the clubhouse videos showing the parking lot? All of it? Are you sure? Want to double check it? Wow, you’re really clutching at straws here. Pray tell, what nefarious goings on do you think Zimmerman is hiding when he “lies” about parking at the club house? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2676 "2012-06-23T02:37:17Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > There aren’t enough “:rolleyes:” in the world for you. It’s not even a matter of providing a valid excuse - it is not misconduct. Yet legal studies - done by legal scholars - say it is. Would you like a cite? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2677 "2012-06-23T03:12:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. Are the cameras on the clubhouse videos showing the parking lot? All of it? Are you sure? Want to double check it? The surveillance video shows the interior of the clubhouse, and the windows are shown looking out onto the street. Presumably that street is Rear View. Did you see Zimmerman’s headlights in the footage? Be honest. We already know the answer is no. > [@](#): > > Wow, you’re really clutching at straws here. Pray tell, what nefarious goings on do you think Zimmerman is hiding when he “lies” about parking at the club house? Who the hell knows why Zimmerman would lie about this? If its not yet clear to you yet, the dude is a pathological liar. He appears to be so comfortable with lying that it’s his default mode, which is why his lies backfired on him and put him in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2678 "2012-06-23T03:52:40Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The surveillance video shows the interior of the clubhouse, and the windows are shown looking out onto the street. Presumably that street is Rear View. Did you see Zimmerman’s headlights in the footage? Be honest. We already know the answer is no. No, I didn’t. Are you sure that there is no way to park near the club house in a way where the headlights won’t show up in those windows? > [@](#): > > Who the hell knows why Zimmerman would lie about this? If its not yet clear to you yet, the dude is a pathological liar. He appears to be so comfortable with lying that it’s his default mode, which is why his lies backfired on him and put him in jail. Ah so you have no idea. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2679 "2012-06-23T05:37:58Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The surveillance video shows the interior of the clubhouse, and the windows are shown looking out onto the street. Presumably that street is Rear View. Did you see Zimmerman’s headlights in the footage? Be honest. We already know the answer is no. The sun set at 6:22 pm at Sanford Florida on February 26 2012. It was dusk when he said he parked at the clubhouse. There is no reason to assume his headlights were on. I’m not sure why you think this is even remotely relevant to the beating that was witnessed and the injuries that were documented. Both Zimmerman and Martin (via his girlfriend’s account) talked about multiple sightings of each other. You’re grasping at straws. Martin beat Zimmerman. Given the time frame involved it appears he went out of his way to confront him. This is what the trial will be about, the beating. Nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2680 "2012-06-23T06:06:39Z")
Unconditional love is sweet. Naive, but sweet. ---
**Author:** ![stw004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@stw004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stw004)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2681 "2012-06-23T06:19:14Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The sun set at 6:22 pm at Sanford Florida on February 26 2012. It was dusk when he said he parked at the clubhouse. There is no reason to assume his headlights were on. > > I’m not sure why you think this is even remotely relevant to the beating that was witnessed and the injuries that were documented. Both Zimmerman and Martin (via his girlfriend’s account) talked about multiple sightings of each other. You’re grasping at straws. Martin beat Zimmerman. Given the time frame involved it appears he went out of his way to confront him. This is what the trial will be about, the beating. Nothing else. Do you honestly believe that though? What I mean is, if inconsistencies in Zimmerman’s story are brought up in trial do you think the jury is just going to hand wave them away and say “all that matters is that this highschooler beat him up”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=133) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=135)