# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 135
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2682 "2012-06-23T07:09:34Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > There aren’t enough “:rolleyes:” in the world for you. It’s not even a matter of providing a valid excuse - it is not misconduct. It is, at minimum, a breach of legal ethics, and an unfortunate side effect of having elected prosecutors. > [@stw004](#): > > Do you honestly believe that though? What I mean is, if inconsistencies in Zimmerman’s story are brought up in trial do you think the jury is just going to hand wave them away and say “all that matters is that this highschooler beat him up”? If the highschooler did, in fact, beat him up, in the way that Zimmerman claims, then it is all that matters in terms of whether Zimmerman had the right to kill in self defence. If Martin was in fact smashing Zimmerman’s head repeatedly into concrete, then Zimmerman had that right no matter what happened previously. Even if the prosecution can prove beyond reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was lying, that alone will not be enough for a murder conviction. The jury cannot assume a positive set of facts from the fact that a witness was shown to be lying. That said, if Zimmerman can be shown to have been lying, and there is evidence that he was not beaten in such a way as to put him in reasonable fear of death or serious injury, they may well be able to convict. To repeat something that’s been said many times in these threads, but that some people still don’t get - the jury _may not_ convict because they think he’s probably guilty. They have to know, beyond reasonable doubt, that he is guilty - which means that there is no reason to believe any scenario other than his guilt. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2683 "2012-06-23T07:27:39Z")
Comparing the re-enactment w/ the FronmtDoors.avi [sic] footage leads me to believe that GZ headlights would have appeared to have merely passed by the view of teh camera. He pulled in after the doors, so the sweep of his headlights would have been off camera as well as the full shine of them. It would have just appeared to that camera that a car had driven past with no signs of stopping if he stopped where he indicated. afaict ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2684 "2012-06-23T13:16:11Z")
The timing of everything is off when you compare the 911 call with the reenactment. Martin supposedly was walking slowly, so it should have taken him a while to pass by Zimmerman (if in fact he was parked in front of the clubhouse). But in the reenactment, Zimmerman acted as though Martin suddenly acquired lightening speed: to line up with the 911 call, not only would the kid have needed to pass by his parked car within seconds of Z spotting him a block away, Martin would have needed to have teleported himself all the way down the T in the seconds it took Z to turn down Twin Trees. Zimmerman also insists he thought Martin had something in his hands, and that was why he spread the kid’s arms apart. But that makes no sense if Martin had both hands on Zimmerman’s face and was slamming his head down. Zimmerman’s supposed actions are about as antithetical to normal human behavior as the characters in Prometheus. Martin supposedly had just beat the hell out of him, so what does Z do after he shoots him? He gets on his back and tries to restrain his arms. That’s a whole lot of inefficient intimacy, don’t you think? Why wouldn’t he simply hold the kid at gun point some safe distance away? Most people aren’t trying to be hugged up against a person that just tried to kill them. Especially if there is any doubt they are dead, like Z claimed. I suspect that when the prosecution presents their case, they are going to have a big chart outlining all the inconsistencies, improbabilities, and contradictions present in Zimmerman’s multiple accounts. It’ll point out everything from the absence of Z’s blood and DNA on Martin’s hands (if the kid had his hands planted across a bleeding nose and open mouth, there should be forensic support for this), to the position of Martin’s body on the grass, to Z’s unaccounted for minutes, to the absence of blood smear on Z’s head, and so and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2685 "2012-06-23T15:42:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The sun set at 6:22 pm at Sanford Florida on February 26 2012. It was dusk when he said he parked at the clubhouse. There is no reason to assume his headlights were on. > > I’m not sure why you think this is even remotely relevant to the beating that was witnessed and the injuries that were documented. Both Zimmerman and Martin (via his girlfriend’s account) talked about multiple sightings of each other. You’re grasping at straws. Martin beat Zimmerman. Given the time frame involved it appears he went out of his way to confront him. This is what the trial will be about, the beating. Nothing else. From personal experience, Zimmerman certainly knew that the nearest available police cruiser answers an emergency or nonemergency 911 call. If one had been driving by at the right time, tthe police could have arrived before Zimmerman got the phone in his pocket, or before the shooting, or even during the shooting. Either Zimmerman, not knowing exactly when the police were arriving,l shot Martin in self defense, or he completely lost it, went insane, and shot him. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2686 "2012-06-23T16:10:00Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > From personal experience, Zimmerman certainly knew that the nearest available police cruiser answers an emergency or nonemergency 911 call. If one had been driving by at the right time, tthe police could have arrived before Zimmerman got the phone in his pocket, or before the shooting, or even during the shooting. Either Zimmerman, not knowing exactly when the police were arriving,l shot Martin in self defense, or he completely lost it, went insane, and shot him. Or he found M “hiding in the bushes” then tried pull an authority trip on M. Then got his ass handed to him and fired his weapon. Or some other version from the set pf possibilities which is limited only by our imaginations. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2687 "2012-06-23T17:39:27Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Or he found M “hiding in the bushes” then tried pull an authority trip on M. Then got his ass handed to him and fired his weapon. > Or some other version from the set pf possibilities which is limited only by our imaginations. Considering the low lying bushes, hiding wouldn’t be easy. ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2688 "2012-06-23T18:56:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Lucrative media tour? Care to hazard a guess as to what that might entail? Paid TV and magazine interviews, of course. A tell-all (ghostwritten or “as told to”) [book](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_I_Did_It:_Confessions_of_the_Killer) is also a money-making possibility, and if Zimmerman’s immune to civil proceedings under SYG he gets to keep it all. > [@Terr](#): > > If, as ywtf claims, “very little” of Zimmerman’s testimony matches the evidence, then Zimmerman should, and will, be convicted. Should be a cakewalk for the prosecution. right? Right, but “should be” and “likely will be” are two very different things. The four cops _caught on tape_ beating Rodney King with sticks were initially [acquitted](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King). > [@stw004](#): > > […] if inconsistencies in Zimmerman’s story are brought up in trial do you think the jury is just going to hand wave them away and say “all that matters is that this highschooler beat him up”? That has been enough for several people on this board, and we’ve already seen a judge shrug off the fact that Zimmerman concealed a passport. If the jury shares the opinions expressed here (Martin should have just gone home, Martin should have simply answered Zimmerman’s questions, the police should have gotten there faster, Zimmerman wasn’t legally obligated to listen to the 911 dispatcher or follow the Neighbourhood Watch guidelines, it’s not illegal to follow someone with a concealed loaded gun, just because he lied under oath at his bail hearing doesn’t mean he’ll lie at his trial, etc.), a conviction boils down to whether or not they believes Zimmerman’s claim that an unprovoked Martin came at him like a trash-talking honey badger to beat him to death with his bare hands. The only person to refute that _specific_ part of the story can’t speak for himself, which I suspect will work in Zimmerman’s favour. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2689 "2012-06-23T19:06:29Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > Considering the low lying bushes, hiding wouldn’t be easy. Back in March, I calculated how long after sunset it was and checked how dark it was in my backyard. Martin could have been standing in the walkway on the bottom of the T and Zimmerman might not see him unless he pointed his flashlight at him. There are no lights in that area, except if people turn their porch lights on. Since Zimmerman was using a flashlight, his eyes wouldn’t be adapted to the dark. According to WolframAlpha sunset was at 6:24, so the encounter was at about 40 minutes after sunset. That would be equivalent to about 9:10 pm today in Sanford. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2690 "2012-06-23T19:22:34Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Or he found M “hiding in the bushes” then tried pull an authority trip on M. Then got his ass handed to him and fired his weapon. > Or some other version from the set pf possibilities which is limited only by our imaginations. While this is possible everything up to this indicates he was meeting up with the police who where literally a few minutes away. He would knowingly commit a crime having asked for the police to witness it. ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2691 "2012-06-23T20:21:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > While this is possible everything up to this indicates he was meeting up with the police who where literally a few minutes away. He would knowingly commit a crime having asked for the police to witness it. I doubt the “got his ass handed to him and fired his weapon” part of the evening was what, if anything, Zimmerman wanted the police to witness. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2692 "2012-06-23T20:30:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > While this is possible everything up to this indicates he was meeting up with the police who where literally a few minutes away. He would knowingly commit a crime having asked for the police to witness it. He doesn’t knowingly need to commit a crime to be convicted of Murder two or Manslaughter, I am not sure why you keep making this claim. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2693 "2012-06-23T20:44:12Z")
> [@PotLuck](#): > > I doubt the “got his ass handed to him and fired his weapon” part of the evening was what, if anything, Zimmerman wanted the police to witness. nor did I suggest it nor did Zimmerman claim it. That would be you saying that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2694 "2012-06-23T20:45:46Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > He doesn’t knowingly need to commit a crime to be convicted of Murder two or Manslaughter, I am not sure why you keep making this claim. attacking him would be a crime. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2695 "2012-06-23T20:50:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > attacking him would be a crime. In which him and who and how? This post is to ambiguous for me to respond to. ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2696 "2012-06-23T21:12:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > nor did I suggest it nor did Zimmerman claim it. That would be you saying that. That would be me quoting **PatriotX** and disagreeing with your statement “He would knowingly commit a crime having asked for the police to witness it”. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2697 "2012-06-24T14:49:29Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > Considering the low lying bushes, hiding wouldn’t be easy. It’s my understanding the idea of M hiding in the bushes is given to us by Zimmerman. :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2698 "2012-06-24T14:51:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > While this is possible everything up to this indicates he was meeting up with the police who where literally a few minutes away. He would knowingly commit a crime having asked for the police to witness it. What is the crime in trying to brow beat some kid into staying put til the cops show up? and if there is some crime in that, I doubt that Z or most of us wold realize that it was a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2699 "2012-06-24T15:21:39Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > What is the crime in trying to brow beat some kid into staying put til the cops show up? > and if there is some crime in that, I doubt that Z or most of us wold realize that it was a crime. Yes but the conjecture was that Zimmerman made physical contact. Browbeating wouldn’t be a crime unless threats were made, which of course is a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2700 "2012-06-24T15:30:12Z")
> [@stw004](#): > > Do you honestly believe that though? What I mean is, if inconsistencies in Zimmerman’s story are brought up in trial do you think the jury is just going to hand wave them away and say “all that matters is that this highschooler beat him up”? Yes, I honestly believe that thought. Unless you have a photographic memory you’re not capable of describing what you said and did 4 hours ago in the level of detail you’re demanding from someone else. He may have pulled in normally or parallel to the street and he may have had his headlights on or off. The idea that a clubhouse camera captured anything relevant to a documented beating is grasping at straws. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/2701 "2012-06-25T02:10:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > While this is possible everything up to this indicates he was meeting up with the police who where literally a few minutes away. He would knowingly commit a crime having asked for the police to witness it. Didn’t the cops show up twenty seconds after the shooting? If so, it was that close. This was Zimmerman’s home territory. He should have known there were dozens of townhouses facing the path, depending on the number of people in each townhouse, there could have been a hundred, more or less, potential witnesses. He called the cops, who might have arrived at any time, even before he got off the phone, if the stars had aligned perfectly. Knowing this,Zimmerman couldn’t have planned to commit murder. Hard to prove he had a “depraved mind” for a brief instant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=134) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=136)