# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 154
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3062 "2012-07-04T21:20:35Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > was being suffocated immediately before Martin went for the gun, and b) the scream stops _instantaneously_ with the gunshot. Someone in such deadly fear for their life that they are screaming animal-like shrieks of primal terror does not stop mis-scream after pulling the trigger, especially when Zimmerman says that a) he didn’t know his shot had hit TM, and b) I actually commented months ago that the last scream was someone different from the other screams. When you look to the frequency chart it is a much higher pitch than the other screams. The last scream could have actually been Martin. Download the wave file and look at it in Audacity. I don’t know if that was a primal terror scream or if Martin had a high pitched voice. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3063 "2012-07-04T21:27:30Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > See in that last sentence where he talks about the sidewalk and how it “does like this”? We don’t know how he’s gesturing, but it’s quite reasonable to assume that he’s talking about the T. you came up with a location based on “It does like this”. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3064 "2012-07-04T21:33:31Z")
He says “at that, at that point”. It’s a discrete location he’s talking about. He doesn’t say “Ah…they were sorta-kinda around there”…which is what a reasonable person would expect someone to say for an area lacking landmarks. We shall see. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3065 "2012-07-04T21:34:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > you came up with a location based on “It does like this”. What does it matter to you what location Witness 6 gave for the fight? You’ll find a way to make it a fit with Zimmerman’s innocence regardless. We know this. You know this. At this point, the only real question is whether you know that we know this. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3066 "2012-07-04T21:36:29Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > LOL. You’re funny, **Magiver**! All along I was thought you were really defending Zimmerman, but now I’m catching on. You’re just pulling our legs. > > Right? > > Just in case I’m wrong, here’s a [link](http://phoebe53.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/zimmerman-911-call-transcript-trayvon-martin/) to the 911 transcript. Copy and paste where Zimmerman tells the dispatcher he’s looking for a street sign. “Um, I don’t know. It’s a cut-through so I don’t know the address.” He’s having problems giving directions to the police without a street name. Is the added information from the video disconnected in any way to the 911 call? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3067 "2012-07-04T21:38:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s not a function of lying or telling the truth. Dee Dee has know way of knowing what is going on unless Martin expressly tells her. If she says he says he’s next to his house, that is a specific. If she says he’s frightened, that’s an opinion. If she says he says he’s hiding after being next to his house then that means he’s gone back in the direction of Zimmerman. I had the option that Martin was lying. Except for what Zimmerman and Martin said to each other, everything DeeDee says is hearsay. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3068 "2012-07-04T21:40:16Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > What does it matter to you what location Witness 6 gave for the fight? You’ll find a way to make it a fit with Zimmerman’s innocence regardless. No, it matters greatly where witnesses say the fight occurred. What’s that got to do with you inventing a location based on “It does like this”. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3069 "2012-07-04T21:44:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > “Um, I don’t know. It’s a cut-through so I don’t know the address.” He’s having problems giving directions to the police without a street name. Is the added information from the video disconnected in any way to the 911 call? You said he told the dispatcher he was _looking for a street_. It is quite obvious that he never did that. Just about everything he said in the video is “disconnected” from the 911 call, so what kind of crazy question is that? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3070 "2012-07-04T21:46:50Z")
Questions: If Zimmerman was on foot looking for a street sign (or address), why would he hang up the phone with 911? It’s not like he was on a landline. And if you don’t know where the suspect is, but he just finished circling you menacingly–so much so that you rolled your window up in fear , OMG!!–wouldn’t you want to have the dispatcher there on the phone, just to give you comfort? Why would you hang up _then_, when the fear would be at its highest? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3071 "2012-07-04T21:48:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, it matters greatly where witnesses say the fight occurred. What’s that got to do with you inventing a location based on “It does like this”. Well, we’ll see what you say when Witness 6 takes the stand. I’ll remember this post of yours. Today, you say it matters where the fight occurred. When the truth comes out, I don’t want to see you dismiss this as a meaningless nothing just because it’s inconvenient. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3072 "2012-07-04T21:54:44Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > You said he told the dispatcher he was _looking for a street_. It is quite obvious that he never did that. No, it’s not quite obvious he never did that. This is the evidence he presented in the video. Do you have something that contradicts it? He clearly got out of the car to follow Martin while talking to the dispatcher. He was clearly trying to give directions. Where do you think he walked? What is your dispute with his account? ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3073 "2012-07-04T21:58:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How is it contradictory? Do you think he didn’t know where he was pinned on the ground? Where is the contradiction in the detail? Clearly I need to type slower so you can keep up. In the interview with the detectives _the very night of the shooting_: [Link](http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/audio/george-zimmermans-statements-sanford-pd-audio/). Recording 1, 13:50 in. The full conversation. Again, I’ll type slowly so you understand: > [@](#): > > Zimmerman: And he punched me in the nose. At that point, I fell down. Uhh, I tried to defend myself, he just started punching me in the face, and, uhh -I started screaming for help, I couldn’t see, I couldn’t breathe. Then he started taking my - > > Singleton: Were you still standing at this point? > > Zimmerman: No ma’am, - > > Singleton: OK > > Zimmerman: - **I fell to the ground when he punched me the first time**. It was dark, I didn’t even see him getting ready to punch me. As soon as he punched me, I feel backwards, **in to the grass**. He grabbed me, he was whaling on my head. Then I started yelling “help”. Here’s George’s problem. He has to make his story sound like he wasn’t following/stalking Martin. For that, he has to make it sound like he was heading back to his truck - in other words, the fight -has- to start as the ‘T’ intersection in the sidewalk. The problem is of course that Martin’s body was found 50-60 feet down the path, which has George moving -away- from his truck. Another problem for George. Look at the re-enactment video. Look at where George is standing in relation to where he says Martin hit him. If he was punched and fell in to the grass, as he says in the audio interview…how the hell does his head end up on the sidewalk? You really really should listen to the audio files, because they blow holes in George’s statements based on the 911 call, in the video re-enactment, and based on the evidence such as the location of the body. Answer this: Why do you believe George’s _second_ version of events over his first, initial version of events? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3074 "2012-07-04T22:03:22Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Well, we’ll see what you say when Witness 6 takes the stand. > > I’ll remember this post of yours. Today, you say it matters where the fight occurred. When the truth comes out, I don’t want to see you dismiss this as a meaningless nothing just because it’s inconvenient. Evidence has always mattered. You just made up a location based on “It does like this” and are chastising me for not accepting it. And for the life of me I can’t understand where you’re going with it. Are you suggesting Zimmerman dragged the body 35 feet and if so, why? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3075 "2012-07-04T22:09:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Evidence has always mattered. You just made up a location based on “It does like this” and are chastising me for not accepting it. And for the life of me I can’t understand where you’re going with it. Are you suggesting Zimmerman dragged the body 35 feet and if so, why? You are being extremely disingenuous. Of course that isn’t the argument being made, you damn well know it. The only logical explanation is that Zimmerman chased Martin down there. And you know why he wouldn’t admit this. If Wit6 says he saw the two wrestling at the T, it will be on the defense to explain why Martin’s body was not found there. Do you disagree or agree with this? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3076 "2012-07-04T22:14:53Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Just curious, since you seem to take his claim at face value and find nothing off about the idea he left his car to find an address that had nothing to do with his or Martin’s location. > > What address did he end up giving the dispatcher before he ended the call? He told them to call his cell phone when they got there. He was already walking back to his truck, so there wasn’t any reason for them to go to Retreat View. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3077 "2012-07-04T22:21:48Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Clearly I need to type slower so you can keep up. Clearly you should dial back the rhetoric and discuss this calmly. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > In the interview with the detectives _the very night of the shooting_: [Link](http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/audio/george-zimmermans-statements-sanford-pd-audio/). > > Recording 1, 13:50 in. > The full conversation. Again, I’ll type slowly so you understand: > > Here’s George’s problem. He has to make his story sound like he wasn’t following/stalking Martin. For that, he has to make it sound like he was heading back to his truck - in other words, the fight -has- to start as the ‘T’ intersection in the sidewalk. > > The problem is of course that Martin’s body was found 50-60 feet down the path, which has George moving -away- from his truck. Martin’s body was found about 35 feet. You can look at the[police photos](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-pictures-evidence-photos-released-in-the-shooting-death-of-trayvon-martin-20120517,0,6090406.photogallery)and see it was at the edge of the first condo near the divider fence. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Another problem for George. Look at the re-enactment video. Look at where George is standing in relation to where he says Martin hit him. > > If he was punched and fell in to the grass, as he says in the audio interview…how the hell does his head end up on the sidewalk? According to his account there was a shoving match. . Is there evidence to contradict this? He landed where he landed. I don’t see any way of determining the exact way he fell given there is an infinite number of ways they could have moved in an altercation. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > You really really should listen to the audio files, because they blow holes in George’s statements based on the 911 call, in the video re-enactment, and based on the evidence such as the location of the body. > Answer this: Why do you believe George’s _second_ version of events over his first, initial version of events? George’s “second” version adds detail not presented earlier. Had he said he ran around the buildings or some other substantially different account then it would be significant. We know that someone ran by the apartments. That would be Martin. There is no account that Zimmerman ran by. So we will have the location of Martin running that confirms Zimmerman’s story. We know he got out of his truck to follow. It makes sense that he follows in the same direction. Again, so far this is consistent with his account of what happened. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3078 "2012-07-04T22:22:54Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > He told them to call his cell phone when they got there. He was already walking back to his truck, so there wasn’t any reason for them to go to Retreat View. Why would he get out of his truck to track all the way across the cut-through towards Retreat View, in the dark, seconds after a “thug” circled his truck, for a reason that ultimately served zero purpose? He could’ve just stayed in his truck for all the good that this little information-gathering expedition did. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3079 "2012-07-04T22:24:01Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3080 "2012-07-04T22:27:35Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > You are being extremely disingenuous. Of course that isn’t the argument being made, you damn well know it. I didn’t make up a location based on “It does like this”. > [@monstro](#): > > The only logical explanation is that Zimmerman chased Martin down there. And you know why he wouldn’t admit this. > > If Wit6 says he saw the two wrestling at the T, it will be on the defense to explain why Martin’s body was not found there. Do you disagree or agree with this? The body was 35 feet away. I posted a photo to show the location. So no, it’s not logical that he was chased anywhere. He was very close to the path going to his truck and unless there is evidence to the contrary Martin was hundreds of feet away from his last reported position. If anybody was out of place and therefore chasing someone (your logic) it was Martin. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3081 "2012-07-04T22:31:24Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > You could listen to his interview [here](http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/people/witnesses/). Here’s a transcript that I took from another message board: > > bolding mine > > See in that last sentence where he talks about the sidewalk and how it “does like this”? We don’t know how he’s gesturing, but it’s quite reasonable to assume that he’s talking about the T. > > So let’s go with that for now. If he places the on-the-ground struggle at the T, that means there is 50 feet unaccounted for in Zimmerman’s story. There is no way he’s going to be able to hand wave this away in court. And you don’t think it was talking about the sidewalk Beside his house would be even more reasonable? You know where Martin’s body was found? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=153) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=155)