# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 155
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3082 "2012-07-04T22:47:05Z")
Where does Witness 6 live proximate to the shooting, Joel? You act as though his townhouse was positioned there, but you don’t know that. It’s a big stretch to think he’s talking about the main sidewalk. He said the fight was placed where the sidewalk “does _like_ this”. Most intelligent people can infer from this that he’s talking about a configuration that deviates from the straight path. The most obvious configuration would be where the sidewalk intersects with the cut through. But here’s some relief for you: There’s no need to rely on my speculations. The truth will be revealed soon enough, and then we’ll know what John was talking about. All I’m saying is that there’s good reason to think John places the ground scuffle at the T. So whomever is clinging to the idea that Zimmerman has nothing to fear from the prosecution probably should brace yourself for some upsetting revelations. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3083 "2012-07-04T22:51:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I didn’t make up a location based on “It does like this”. > > The body was 35 feet away. I posted a photo to show the location. So no, it’s not logical that he was chased anywhere. He was very close to the path going to his truck and unless there is evidence to the contrary Martin was hundreds of feet away from his last reported position. If anybody was out of place and therefore chasing someone (your logic) it was Martin. Who last reported his location? Was it someone who was present at the scene? Someone who would have absolutely no reason to lie? I don’t think it’s 35 feet. The distance looks bigger than 35 feet, first of all, and second of all, it hasn’t been measured as such. I believe an EMT said it was “40 feet” and a police officer said “50”. Some folks who have considerable more time and energy than I do have calculated it as 53 feet. But even 35 feet needs to be explained. It’s not some piddly distance than can be chalked up to Zimmerman’s sidewalk-addled mind. Do you think this issue will not come up at trial? I’m curious: What evidence do you think the prosecution is pinning its hopes and dreams on? Because it seems to me that whatever it is, it’s pretty serious and won’t be done away with the kind of defense you’re serving up here. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3084 "2012-07-04T23:00:11Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Well, we’ll see what you say when Witness 6 takes the stand. > > I’ll remember this post of yours. Today, you say it matters where the fight occurred. When the truth comes out, I don’t want to see you dismiss this as a meaningless nothing just because it’s inconvenient. Actually all of Witness #6 statement are online at O’ Mara’s website. There is no need to wait for the SYG hearing. I haven’t been able to download anything today. It might be overloaded. [http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/33-evidence-submitted-at-the-george-zimmerman-bond-hearing](http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/33-evidence-submitted-at-the-george-zimmerman-bond-hearing) That O’Mara was using W6 as evidence at the Bond hearing Friday is kind of telling about who he thinks W6 statements favor. O’Mara seems to need some tech support. Who doesn’t know to convert wav files to MP3 before you put them online? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3085 "2012-07-04T23:05:10Z")
Uh, Joel? All of us know what Wit6 has said. What we don’t know is what he was pointing to when he was giving a location of the fight. That is the critical piece of information that is not known to everyone yet. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3086 "2012-07-04T23:15:51Z")
I already posted a link to W6’s statement. It’s damn near retarded to think John is Zimmerman’s white knight in shining armor just because O’Mara offered some of his statements at the bond hearing. I guarantee you that the prosecution could care less if Martin was on top in that snap shot of the fight. It is not something they appear to be contesting at all. Remember the first bond hearing? Recall how Gilbreath summarized the State’s evidence against Z. He mentioned 3 things: Z’s statement, the bullet casing, and the body. Who hit whom first doesn’t matter. But this is O’Mara’s only card so he’s playing it. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3087 "2012-07-04T23:31:10Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Where does Witness 6 live proximate to the shooting, Joel? You act as though his townhouse was positioned there, but you don’t know that. > > It’s a big stretch to think he’s talking about the main sidewalk. He said the fight was placed where the sidewalk “does _like_ this”. Most intelligent people can infer from this that he’s talking about a configuration that deviates from the straight path. The most obvious configuration would be where the sidewalk intersects with the cut through. > > But here’s some relief for you: There’s no need to rely on my speculations. The truth will be revealed soon enough, and then we’ll know what John was talking about. All I’m saying is that there’s good reason to think John places the ground scuffle at the T. So whomever is clinging to the idea that Zimmerman has nothing to fear from the prosecution probably should brace yourself for some upsetting revelations. Here is a map of the witness locations. [http://www.talkleft.com/zimm/witmap470.jpg](http://www.talkleft.com/zimm/witmap470.jpg) The house numbers are here. [http://www.talkleft.com/zimm/overview485.jpg](http://www.talkleft.com/zimm/overview485.jpg) You are arguing about this and you didn’t know this? If you think the map is wrong you can go argue with Jeralyn E. Merritt who compiled it. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3088 "2012-07-05T00:04:01Z")
We’ll see what comes out in court, Joel. If he places the fight at the location of the shooting, you can tell me you told me so. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3089 "2012-07-05T00:05:38Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Uh, Joel? All of us know what Wit6 has said. What we don’t know is what he was pointing to when he was giving a location of the fight. That is the critical piece of information that is not known to everyone yet. Listen to W6 911 Call. “They are wrestling in back of my porch” [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C9hQpxaGOk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C9hQpxaGOk) I don’t think this is an ambiguous location. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3090 "2012-07-05T00:13:20Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > We’ll see what comes out in court, Joel. If he places the fight at the location of the shooting, you can tell me you told me so. “They are wrestling in back of my porch” I told you so. ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3091 "2012-07-05T00:31:56Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > We’ll see what comes out in court, Joel. **If he places the fight at the location of the shooting** , you can tell me you told me so. (bolding mine) > [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > “They are wrestling in back of my porch” > > I told you so. So Zimmerman shot Martin in back of the witness’s porch? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3092 "2012-07-05T00:51:28Z")
“In back of my porch” could be anywhere between the T to where the kid was shot. I look forward to hearing precisely where he places the fight. Along with the other witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3093 "2012-07-05T00:54:25Z")
Here is Zimmerman’s written statement, in which he says he got out of the car to look for a street sign in response to a dispatch inquiry that was never made (page 16): [http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Pages-from-Police-Reports-without-statements-redacted.pdf](http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Pages-from-Police-Reports-without-statements-redacted.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3094 "2012-07-05T01:28:14Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > “In back of my porch” could be anywhere between the T to where the kid was shot. > > I look forward to hearing precisely where he places the fight. Along with the other witnesses. Since Martin’s body was found in the back of his porch. I don’t think parsing the statement is going to help you. [http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ht\_zimmerman\_garage\_3\_nt\_120517\_ssh.jpg](http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ht_zimmerman_garage_3_nt_120517_ssh.jpg) You can actually see that Martin’s covered body is beside Witness#6 porch. The screened in porch in the foreground belongs to Witness#11. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3095 "2012-07-05T02:10:20Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Who last reported his location? He reported he was at his father’s house according to his girl friend. So that would be Martin. > [@monstro](#): > > I don’t think it’s 35 feet. The distance looks bigger than 35 feet, first of all, and second of all, it hasn’t been measured as such. I believe an EMT said it was “40 feet” and a police officer said “50”. Some folks who have considerable more time and energy than I do have calculated it as 53 feet. But even 35 feet needs to be explained. It’s not some piddly distance than can be chalked up to Zimmerman’s sidewalk-addled mind. From the pictures it looks like it’s inside of the second tree opposite the body. I measured it in Google Earth. It was explained by Zimmerman’s testimony. And as was stated earlier, one of the witnesses heard voices further up and then saw the scuffle closer to his home. Can’t really address Zimmerman’s sidewalk-alddled mind. That would be your prejudice toward the man speaking. > [@monstro](#): > > Do you think this issue will not come up at trial? No, not really. > [@monstro](#): > > I’m curious: What evidence do you think the prosecution is pinning its hopes and dreams on? Because it seems to me that whatever it is, it’s pretty serious and won’t be done away with the kind of defense you’re serving up here. No idea. And the same sentiment was made in the Duke Lacross case. guess we’ll have to wait and see. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3096 "2012-07-05T02:13:53Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Since Martin’s body was found in the back of his porch. I don’t think parsing the statement is going to help you. Ha! I have nothing to worry about. The man that you’ve been cheerleading for does. Or did you forget he’s the one being prosecuted, not me? What you seem not to fully appreciate is that State of Florida already knows where John placed the fight. Us little guys can only guess and speculate about stuff that has been known to the State for several months now. And they arrested Zimmerman and charged him with murder. There is a reason for this. A reason that not even O’Mara has challenged. But keep on with your a-hoping and a-praying that John will carry Zimmerman through to the promise land. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3097 "2012-07-05T02:14:53Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Here is Zimmerman’s written statement, in which he says he got out of the car to look for a street sign in response to a dispatch inquiry that was never made (page 16): > > [http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Pages-from-Police-Reports-without-statements-redacted.pdf](http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Pages-from-Police-Reports-without-statements-redacted.pdf) He was clearly trying to direct the police to the location on the 911 call. What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3098 "2012-07-05T02:19:07Z")
I found a view of what the area looks like in the daytime. [http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/TalkLeft/zimmerman/112ttback.jpg](http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/TalkLeft/zimmerman/112ttback.jpg) That is 1211 where W#11 was on the right. To the left of 1211 is 1221 where W#6 was. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3099 "2012-07-05T02:25:25Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Ha! I have nothing to worry about. The man that you’ve been cheerleading for does. Or did you forget he’s the one being prosecuted, not me? Nobody’s cheering for Zimmerman. There is no “Ha” regarding any of it. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > What you seem not to fully appreciate is that State of Florida already knows where John placed the fight. Us little guys can only guess and speculate about stuff that has been known to the State for several months now. And they arrested Zimmerman and charged him with murder. There is a reason for this. A reason that not even O’Mara has challenged. > > But keep on with your a-hoping and a-praying that John will carry Zimmerman through to the promise land. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. Nobody is a-hoping and a-praying for anything. We’re simply pointing out the evidence as it relates to Zimmerman’s account. Where the body landed is where the body landed. Nobody is disputing it. You can guess and speculate all you want but your last speculation regarding the body location made absolutely no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3100 "2012-07-05T02:32:10Z")
Obese 204 pound, 5’7+" short legged Zimmerman isn’t going to run too many people down. IMO. Even in reasonable shape, say 50 pounds lighter, I doubt he’d be a speed demon. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3101 "2012-07-05T02:41:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > He was clearly trying to direct the police to the location on the 911 call. What’s your point? What street sign was he going to find, taking the route that he did? Since he never found that street sign, what made him turn back to his car? Why would he hang up the phone without giving the dispatcher the directions he was so bravely seeking for him? And why wouldn’t he have told the dispatcher what he was trying to do on his behalf? Why did he say the dispatcher had asked for directions when he hadn’t? If he was heading back to his car when he encountered Trayvon, how would he have ended up on a path taking him away from his car? A fight scene at the T is consistent with him going back to his car. But we both know this is not what happened. So what did and what is the reason behind the discrepancy? My points are very clear. His statement does not jibe with what actually happened, and they don’t jibe with common sense either. I suspect you know this, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=154) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=156)