# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 163
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3242 "2012-07-08T14:12:23Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Finally pinned you down to a story. Sadly, but not surprisingly, your story is completely, utterly, undeniably wrong. Because in the re-enactment video, George is very clear about when and where he calls the dispatch. > > The only way your story had even the remotest of chances of being semi-accurate, the dispatch call had to start with GZ parked on Twin Trees. Ooops. I clearly pointed out that he started the call at the clubhouse in post 3215. He then drives to the cut-through. It’s a 10 second drive at 25 mph (15 if he drives the speed limit of 15 mph). The call transcript STARTS at 00:25 seconds. I went through this in detail. There is no reference to Martin around his car in the transcript when he talks about him. He talks about him walking around (not stationary) looking at houses. On the phone he refers to him in the past tense when describing his appearance and then immediately switches to the present tense when he say’s he’s looking at him. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > George says he first spots Martin walking through the short cut from Oregon Road at the curve on Retreat View Circle where road starts to turn east. He says that Martin is in front of one of the houses, on the grass, and he has stopped and is looking around. George says that he drives past Martin, who is now behind him. He dials the non-emergency line, and when he gets through, he parks at the Clubhouse. > > Martin is still behind George. George is parked at the Clubhouse, and he’s now on the phone with the dispatcher. George says that the dispatcher asked where he was, so he gave the clubhouse address. We hear George give the address for the Clubhouse - based on George’s re-enactment video, George was NOT trying to direct the police to where Martin was, he says he was asked specifically where he was, so he gave them the Clubhouse address. > > While on the phone with the dispatcher, Martin walks past George, looking at his car, etc. > > It’s obvious what happened: At 00:25 of the call, he finishes telling the dispatcher why he’s calling, and he gives the address of the Clubhouse, because that’s where he is. Again, for the umpteenth time, he says the best address he can give is the clubhouse. This is substantially different than saying he’s AT the clubhouse. ALL his directions involve going PAST the clubhouse. The same applies to Martin. The dispatcher asks if hes NEAR the clubhouse and he says “yeah” in passing and goes on to say he’s staring at him and then approaches him. He would have to be looking in a mirror if Martin was behind him. He starts out in the past tense because he’s driven past Martin and doesn’t see him, but switches to the present tense when he realizes that Martin has continued walking east on Retreat View Circle. While on the phone with dispatch, Martin’s path has now reached the Clubhouse and he’s walking past George’s car, looking at it, etc. (Perhaps Martin thought it odd that a car would be parked in front of the closed Clubhouse parking spot, engine running etc). > [@DragonAsh](#): > > It’s approx. 250 feet or so from the curve in the road where George sees Martin to the front corner of the Clubhouse. > > The average person walks about 220-250 feet an hour. Let’s assume 250 feet an hour for Martin since he’s fairly tall. > > George tells dispatch the Clubhouse address at 00:25 of the call. > > At 01:20 of the call, Martin is ‘coming to check me out’. That is about one minute - almost exactly how long we’d expect it to take Martin to go from where George spotted him to the Clubhouse. > > In other words: This -exactly- matches both the dispatch call, and it matches the timeline, and Magiver, your story is completely bogus. At least the first minute or so of the phone call, according to George, took place at the Clubhouse on Retreat View Circle, NOT on Twin Trees. > > In the re-enactment, he says that Martin walked past him and turned right on Twin Trees (He says the street name in the video). This is also where George claims that the dispatcher asked which way Martin went, but that request is nowhere in the call transcript. I mean, it just doesn’t exist. > > Anyway: George says that after Martin walked past him and turned right on Twin Trees, he pulls out, follows Martin down Twin Trees, where he sees Martin near the curve in the road where it turns south, walking up towards the cut-through. > > From the corner of Twin Trees and Retreat View Circle, to a spot between the cut-through and where GZ parked his car, is about 300 feet. It should take a little over a minute or so to walk that distance, again assuming a walking speed of 250 ft/mn. Going from 01:20 (he’s coming to check me out, which must be at the Clubhouse) to ‘he’s running’ (which has to be from near the cut-through) is only 48 seconds - doesn’t seem to be enough time, but I suppose there’s enough uncertainty that we can allow it. > > Based on the timeline of the transcript and George’s testimony of when and where he called, and when and where he saw Martin, I think one could argue that it coincides reasonably well to the initial dispatch call. Not perfect, but close. > > It does NOT, however, match the re-enactment video at all, because -clearly- there is not enough time for the additional action to happen: We just saw that there isn’t even really enough time just to get from the Clubhouse to the cut-through in the time allowed. That’s a problem, because the re-enactment video includes an _additional_ 300 feet of distance covered by Martin - an additional minute (returning to the truck, circling it, etc). that simply does not exist in the transcript. He never refers to the clubhouse as a location for anything beyond a reference to drive past. It is simply the point where he dials the phone. Martin has already been walking around looking at houses when he makes the call. He talks about this on the phone and in the video. He then drives to the cut-through and sees Martin again. Where do you think Zimmerman is parked when Martin walks toward him? It’s 500 feet or a 110 second walk the entire distance from the clubhouse to the corner of the building (3.1 mph average stride X 5280 feet / 3600 seconds in an hr = 4.5 feet per second divided into 500 feet). He says he’s coming to check me out at 120 seconds into the phone call. Anyway you want to parse the phone call the time allotted fits in. And finally, if he was still at the clubhouse when he got through to the dispatcher he would be able to see the street sign which was feet away. He can’t give the street name because the sign is not within sight. If Martin was still at the clubhouse there would be no reason for Zimmerman to move on. All the evidence suggests he’s at the cut-through parking location. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3243 "2012-07-08T14:15:08Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/03/2880246/doctor-george-zimmerman-had-black.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/03/2880246/doctor-george-zimmerman-had-black.html) > George Zimmerman has sacroiliitis, which is inflammation of the lower joints, which likely would make it almost impossible to run fast, if he could run at all. There’s no evidence that he ran at all. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3244 "2012-07-08T15:12:06Z")
So the jury will see a middleaged, overweight man with a bad back, who’s nose had been broken, had been knocked to the ground, had his head repeatedly slammed against a concrete sidewalk, was being repeatedly beaten and pinned to the ground while he cried out to his neighbors for help which never came. Who on the jury could possibly believe that Zimmerman was NOT in fear for his life? ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3245 "2012-07-08T15:30:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There’s no evidence that he ran at all. I know that, but how could he possibly catch Trayvon, which is Angela Corey’s apparent claim? According to some, Zimmerman ran after Martin, despite the fact there was no way to know Martin was still in the park once he rounded the T, since Martin could have jumped the low fence on the east side, or run to the back exit before Zimmerman even got to the T. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3246 "2012-07-08T15:41:47Z")
27 is middle-aged? What is this, 1312? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3247 "2012-07-08T15:43:00Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/03/2880246/doctor-george-zimmerman-had-black.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/03/2880246/doctor-george-zimmerman-had-black.html) > > George Zimmerman has sacroiliitis, which is inflammation of the lower joints, which likely would make it almost impossible to run fast, if he could run at all. So why was he huffing and puffing on the phone call with the police dispatcher? Does he have a lung ailment as well? ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3248 "2012-07-08T16:02:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So why was he huffing and puffing on the phone call with the police dispatcher? Does he have a lung ailment as well? Zimmerman’s obviously out of shape. He may have tried to run, but it’s doubtful he was successful. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3249 "2012-07-08T16:08:35Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So why was he huffing and puffing on the phone call with the police dispatcher? Does he have a lung ailment as well? His voice wavers for a couple of seconds at the same time the sound of rushing wind which would be consistent with him getting out of the car to follow Martin. It’s then suggested that he not follow Martin which he agrees to. The sound of wind rushing stops and his voice is normal for the remainder of the call. There is no huffing and puffing. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3250 "2012-07-08T16:14:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I clearly pointed out that he started the call at the clubhouse in post 3215. He then drives to the cut-through. It’s a 10 second drive at 25 mph (15 if he drives the speed limit of 15 mph). \*\*The call transcript STARTS at 00:25 seconds. > \*\* You keep saying this so often I no longer believe you’re mistaken and can only believe you’re doing this on purpose. But just in case, I’ll type slower so you understand: No. It. Does. Not. The transcript, surprisingly enough, starts at 00:00. Why do we know this? Because if we hit our stopwatch when the dispatcher starts talking, and pause it when Zimmerman stops talking after saying, " It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about", the time is…00:25. > [@](#): > > Again, for the umpteenth time, he says the best address he can give is the clubhouse. This is substantially different than saying he’s AT the clubhouse. **ALL his directions involve going PAST the clubhouse**. The same applies to Martin. The dispatcher asks if hes NEAR the clubhouse and he says “yeah” in passing and goes on to say he’s staring at him and then approaches him. He would have to be looking in a mirror if Martin was behind him. Are you just making shit up on purpose? Zimmerman only gives directions specifically for the clubhouse for the first minute and a half of the call - the first time he mentions going -past- the Clubhouse is at 01:39…when we’ve already established that Martin would have gone past Zimmerman, who followed down Twin Trees in his truck. Zimmerman says clearly in the video re-enactmen: “I called the non-emergency line, and when I got through, I parked at the Clubhouse”. He then goes on to say that he gave them the Clubhouse address because that’s where he was. Why are you trying to deny this? Zimmerman himself says this, and there’s no reason to believe that he is wrong on this point. > [@](#): > > He says he’s coming to check me out at 120 seconds into the phone call. Anyway you want to parse the phone call the time allotted fits in. You mean this? > [@](#): > > Zimmerman: Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out. > He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. [01:20] You should just stop. Really. It’s beyond pathetic. You do realize that 01:20 is one minute and 20 seconds, not 120 seconds, right? > [@](#): > > **And finally, if he was still at the clubhouse when he got through to the dispatcher he would be able to see the street sign which was feet away.** He can’t give the street name because the sign is not within sight. If Martin was still at the clubhouse there would be no reason for Zimmerman to move on. All the evidence suggests he’s at the cut-through parking location. George says he parked at the Clubhouse when he got through to the dispatcher. Are you calling George a liar? Besides - he didn’t need a street sign when he first got through. He was at the Clubhouse, he knew the address for the Clubhouse, and guess what address he gave the dispatcher? That’s right - the clubhouse! It’s only -after- Martin came towards and passed his car, and George followed Martin down Twin Trees, that George discusses directions that go ‘past’ the clubhouse. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3251 "2012-07-08T16:43:45Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > So the jury will see a middleaged, overweight man Who is this middle aged overweight person you’re talking about? I was kind of thinking we were talking about this guy: [George Zimmerman](http://www.google.com/imgres?q=george+zimmerman+police&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1516&bih=810&tbs=isz:l&tbm=isch&tbnid=QBwlK5vO0HIviM:&imgrefurl=http://baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/5/17/zimmerman_discovery_.html&docid=YK1iXojklAMfFM&imgurl=http://baynews9.com/content/dam/news/images/2012/05/GEORGE-ZIMMERMAN-BODY-0517.jpg&w=1488&h=2240&ei=crj5T5MhweLZBYaCjfwG&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=577&sig=108557883473824405934&page=1&tbnh=136&tbnw=89&start=0&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:20,s:0,i:138&tx=31&ty=90) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3252 "2012-07-08T16:45:36Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/03/2880246/doctor-george-zimmerman-had-black.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/03/2880246/doctor-george-zimmerman-had-black.html) > George Zimmerman has sacroiliitis, which is inflammation of the lower joints, which likely would make it almost impossible to run fast, if he could run at all. Ianad, but I have this condition. I can run. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3253 "2012-07-08T16:48:59Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > Zimmerman’s obviously out of shape. What makes it obvious? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3254 "2012-07-08T16:53:51Z")
IRL, it wasn’t until **AFTER** GZ got out of his truck that the conversation about where to meet the police began. So it doesn’t seem likely that GZ got out of his truck in response to a conversation about where to meet the police. GZ would have been to the other side of the block, the east side, before he is telling the NEN guy directions to GZ’s truck. 2min of phone conversation and 200 feet in distance. He’s giving NEN directions to his vehicle when is on the east side of the block, afaict. **If Z had gotten out of his truck with the intention of getting an address, why is he giving the NEN directions to his truck when he is standing where he went to get an address from a “street sign”?** It seems that not only does **the decision to get out of the truck precedes the decision to get an address for the NEN guy** , **the decision to get an address would have come some time after Z has already crossed the block**. Because GZ was already over there on the east side telling NEN to meet him at his truck. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3255 "2012-07-08T16:55:10Z")
We’re now supposed to believe that George is ‘middle aged’ and 'out of shape? He might be carrying a few extra pounds, but he’s 27, I believe he has said he wants to become a cop, he’s head of his neighborhood watch program, and he’s worked as a bouncer at underground parties. The defense is going to have a very hard time presenting George as some helpless invalid in a struggle with someone that he has a 40lb weight advantage. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3256 "2012-07-08T16:59:26Z")
How will the state even begin to show murder two? I was under the impression that a killing in “provocation, or heat of passion” or done under extreme emotional distress was textbook manslaughter and not murder. Even if Zimmerman was not reasonably in fear for his life, the evidence clearly shows that the killing resulted from a scuffle and should be at max, manslaughter. If the state is going to show that Zimmerman left his vehicle with the express purposes of killing Martin, then that is Murder ONE, IMHO. Where does murder two even come into play under these circumstances? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3257 "2012-07-08T17:24:31Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > You keep saying this so often I no longer believe you’re mistaken and can only believe you’re doing this on purpose. But just in case, I’ll type slower so you understand: > No. It. Does. Not. > The transcript, surprisingly enough, starts at 00:00. Why do we know this? Because if we hit our stopwatch when the dispatcher starts talking, and pause it when Zimmerman stops talking after saying, " It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about", the time is…00:25. > Are you just making shit up on purpose? Zimmerman only gives directions specifically for the clubhouse for the first minute and a half of the call - the first time he mentions going -past- the Clubhouse is at 01:39…when we’ve already established that Martin would have gone past Zimmerman, who followed down Twin Trees in his truck. His first use of the word “clubhouse” is to say the best address I can give you is 111 View Circle. Not the address which would be staring at him but “the best address”. The dispatcher has to correct him at which time he says “that’s the clubhouse”. At 01:39 (after he says Martin is coming toward him) his directions are to go past the clubhouse. He’s already parked. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Zimmerman says clearly in the video re-enactmen: “I called the non-emergency line, and when I got through, I parked at the Clubhouse”. He then goes on to say that he gave them the Clubhouse address because that’s where he was. Why are you trying to deny this? Zimmerman himself says this, and there’s no reason to believe that he is wrong on this point. Yes and then he clarifies it with the following statement: This is where I stopped to call and he walked past me still looking at houses. He then says the dispatcher asks him where Martin is (which didn’t happen) and he says he’s already out of sight. Are you trying to deny this? Zimmerman himself says this, and there’s no reason to believe that he is wrong on this point. There’s every reason to believe he’s not at the clubhouse. He can’t give correct address number and he can’t name the street Martin walks down even though the sign would be staring him in the face at the clubhouse. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > You should just stop. Really. It’s beyond pathetic. You do realize that 01:20 is one minute and 20 seconds, not 120 seconds, right? OK, 80 seconds after the beginning of the phone call which he says in the video occurs after Martin has passed him and walked down the street. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > George says he parked at the Clubhouse when he got through to the dispatcher. Are you calling George a liar? Nope. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Besides - he didn’t need a street sign when he first got through. He was at the Clubhouse, he knew the address for the Clubhouse, and guess what address he gave the dispatcher? That’s right - the clubhouse! No, actually, he didn’t know the address of the clubhouse. He got it wrong. The Dispatcher had to correct him. He never, at any point, directs them to the clubhouse. He always directs them past it. The only point you can possibly make is that Martin came from behind Zimmerman versus his video re-enactment of coming toward him. There’s a witness to this event who can testify in court. It’s Zimmerman. He’ll just need to refer back to the re-enactment where he states Martin walked past him and was out of sight at the beginning of the call. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3258 "2012-07-08T17:33:26Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > IRL, it wasn’t until **AFTER** GZ got out of his truck that the conversation about where to meet the police began. > So it doesn’t seem likely that GZ got out of his truck in response to a conversation about where to meet the police. > > GZ would have been to the other side of the block, the east side, before he is telling the NEN guy directions to GZ’s truck. 2min of phone conversation and 200 feet in distance. > > He’s giving NEN directions to his vehicle when is on the east side of the block, afaict. > > **If Z had gotten out of his truck with the intention of getting an address, why is he giving the NEN directions to his truck when he is standing where he went to get an address from a “street sign”?** > > It seems that not only does **the decision to get out of the truck precedes the decision to get an address for the NEN guy** , **the decision to get an address would have come some time after Z has already crossed the block**. Because GZ was already over there on the east side telling NEN to meet him at his truck. there are no street signs near his truck. He clearly got out to follow Martin. The street address he said he was going to give the police was on the other side of the street equidistant to the intersection of the T. It was his street so he knew the name of it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3259 "2012-07-08T17:50:14Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Who is this middle aged overweight person you’re talking about? > > I was kind of thinking we were talking about this guy: > [George Zimmerman](http://www.google.com/imgres?q=george+zimmerman+police&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1516&bih=810&tbs=isz:l&tbm=isch&tbnid=QBwlK5vO0HIviM:&imgrefurl=http://baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/5/17/zimmerman_discovery_.html&docid=YK1iXojklAMfFM&imgurl=http://baynews9.com/content/dam/news/images/2012/05/GEORGE-ZIMMERMAN-BODY-0517.jpg&w=1488&h=2240&ei=crj5T5MhweLZBYaCjfwG&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=577&sig=108557883473824405934&page=1&tbnh=136&tbnw=89&start=0&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:20,s:0,i:138&tx=31&ty=90) [Yep](http://gothamist.com/attachments/byakas/42012zimmemran1.jpg). That’s the guy who got beat up. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3260 "2012-07-08T18:52:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > there are no street signs near his truck. He clearly got out to follow Martin. The street address he said he was going to give the police was on the other side of the street equidistant to the intersection of the T. It was his street so he knew the name of it. I’ll go back to your other post in a minute, but first, this one: as you say, he already knows the name of the street on the other side of the cut-through. So why did he have to go all the way down to the end? Secondly - why would George think that a street all the way through the cut-through would be any closer to the address of the Clubhouse and the directions to ‘go past’ the Clubhouse’ that he just gave the dispatcher? You’ve spent the last two pages going on about ‘all his directions were how to get to his truck from the Clubhouse with the Clubhouse as the reference point’. Why are you now insisting that the same guy that you say couldn’t remember one of two major streets in his neighborhood had a magical map in his head and knew that the ‘T’ was equidistant between his truck and the street on the other side? Finally - it appears that you’re saying, George is trying to find a way to direct the officers to the T in the cut-through. Are you suggesting George had no intention of going back to his truck? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3261 "2012-07-08T19:20:10Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I’ll go back to your other post in a minute, but first, this one: as you say, he already knows the name of the street on the other side of the cut-through. So why did he have to go all the way down to the end? The end of the what? The top of the T? To get an address number on that street. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Secondly - why would George think that a street all the way through the cut-through would be any closer to the address of the Clubhouse and the directions to ‘go past’ the Clubhouse’ that he just gave the dispatcher? You’ve spent the last two pages going on about ‘all his directions were how to get to his truck from the Clubhouse with the Clubhouse as the reference point’. Why are you now insisting that the same guy that you say couldn’t remember one of two major streets in his neighborhood had a magical map in his head and knew that the ‘T’ was equidistant between his truck and the street on the other side? The address on the other side of the T is an exact address that a GPS can be directed to. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Finally - it appears that you’re saying, George is trying to find a way to direct the officers to the T in the cut-through. Are you suggesting George had no intention of going back to his truck? No I’m suggesting George was attempting to get an actual address versus his confusing instructions. He keeps correcting his instructions because he refers to the bend to the left as a left turn. He then clarifies it by telling the dispatcher the police need to go past the clubhouse and turn left: Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don’t turn and make a left. Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=162) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=164)