# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 166
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3302 "2012-07-09T00:38:24Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t believe Zimmerman’s account. The EMT report is not consistent with his story, so we are left to speculate about what really happened. > > I believe Zimmerman stalked and committed an assault on Martin, who responded by punching Zimmerman in the nose, who fell backwards and hit his head, inflicting a single cut on the back of his head. Zimmerman pulled his gun, and Martin jumped on top of him, trying to get control of the gun in self defense. Zimmerman then shot Martin. > > Can I prove any of that? No. > > But, unlike Zimmerman’s story, it is consistent with the evidence. except there’s no evidence that Zimmerman assaulted Martin. Zero. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3303 "2012-07-09T00:49:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > except there’s no evidence that Zimmerman assaulted Martin. Zero. There is no evidence Martin slammed Zimmerman’s head into the pavement. Nada. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3304 "2012-07-09T00:52:11Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > There is no evidence Martin slammed Zimmerman’s head into the pavement. Nada. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![stw004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@stw004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stw004)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3305 "2012-07-09T00:55:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > except there’s no evidence that Zimmerman assaulted Martin. Zero. Except for the girlfriend who will testify that she heard Martin saying to Zimmerman “Get Off! Get Off!” That sounds like a small amount of evidence of assault AND battery. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3306 "2012-07-09T01:23:01Z")
> [@stw004](#): > > Except for the girlfriend who will testify that she heard Martin saying to Zimmerman “Get Off! Get Off!” That sounds like a small amount of evidence of assault AND battery. What she said was: Girlfriend: Like a little “get off,” some stuff. Detective: You heard “get off”? Girlfriend: Like, a little “get off”…. Martin was wearing a headset. His voice would remain clear. She heard someone away from Martin, which would be Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3307 "2012-07-09T01:28:19Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t believe Zimmerman’s account. The EMT report is not consistent with his story, so we are left to speculate about what really happened. > > I believe Zimmerman stalked and committed an assault on Martin, who responded by punching Zimmerman in the nose, who fell backwards and hit his head, inflicting a single cut on the back of his head. Zimmerman pulled his gun, and Martin jumped on top of him, trying to get control of the gun in self defense. Zimmerman then shot Martin. > > Can I prove any of that? No. > > But, unlike Zimmerman’s story, it is consistent with the evidence. So you are saying that Zimmerman’s injuries are consistent with a reasonable fear of serious bodily harm. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3308 "2012-07-09T01:31:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Martin was wearing a headset. His voice would remain clear. She heard someone away from Martin, which would be Zimmerman. That is wild speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3309 "2012-07-09T01:32:55Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > So you are saying that Zimmerman’s injuries are consistent with a reasonable fear of serious bodily harm. I am not saying that. But I understand why it is so important for you to hear that every time someone questions Zimmerman’s fairy tale. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3310 "2012-07-09T01:36:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > He clearly got out to follow Martin. He got out to follow Martin. He stayed out to follow or look for Martin. His being on the east side of the block had nothing to do with getting an address. GZ is lying about why he went across the block. If that is where he went. Then there is still a gap of unexplained time in there. GZ’s re-enactment doesn’t account for the 2 minutes between when he got off the phone and when he encountered Martin. > [@Magiver](#): > > The street address he said he was going to give the police was on the other side of the street equidistant to the intersection of the T. It was his street so he knew the name of it. That’s what I just showed. He was lying about going to give the NEN guy an address. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3311 "2012-07-09T01:37:35Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t believe Zimmerman’s account. The EMT report is not consistent with his story, so we are left to speculate about what really happened. > > I believe Zimmerman stalked and committed an assault on Martin, who responded by punching Zimmerman in the nose, who fell backwards and hit his head, inflicting a single cut on the back of his head. Zimmerman pulled his gun, and Martin jumped on top of him, trying to get control of the gun in self defense. Zimmerman then shot Martin. > > Can I prove any of that? No. > > But, unlike Zimmerman’s story, it is consistent with the evidence. Wouldn’t it also be consistent with the evidence to say that Zimmerman followed Martin and asked him an offensive question, to which Martin responded by punching Zimmerman in the nose, and then things continued as you speculate? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3312 "2012-07-09T01:40:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wouldn’t it also be consistent with the evidence to say that Zimmerman followed Martin and asked him an offensive question, to which Martin responded by punching Zimmerman in the nose, and then things continued as you speculate? Oh, absolutely. There are many scenarios that implicate either party that are consistent with the evidence as we know it. But Zimmerman’s story is not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![stw004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@stw004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stw004)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3313 "2012-07-09T01:42:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wouldn’t it also be consistent with the evidence to say that Zimmerman followed Martin and asked him an offensive question, to which Martin responded by punching Zimmerman in the nose, and then things continued as you speculate? It would not be consistent with the girlfriends account of hearing Trayvon say “Get off, get off” . ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3314 "2012-07-09T01:42:58Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > 5’7" 204 pounds, all belly I thought he came in a little lighter than that. He doesn’t look to be fatty in his PD photos. If he’s 100lb and 5’7" he’s a tough mofo. I think he weighed at least a stone or two less than 200 lb the night of those pictures. ---
**Author:** ![stw004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@stw004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stw004)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3315 "2012-07-09T01:45:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What she said was: > > Girlfriend: Like a little “get off,” some stuff. > > Detective: You heard “get off”? > > Girlfriend: Like, a little “get off”…. > > Martin was wearing a headset. His voice would remain clear. She heard someone away from Martin, which would be Zimmerman. Pure speculation, not to mention she said that she heard “Get off” after she knew the headset had come off. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3316 "2012-07-09T01:54:19Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I am not saying that. But I understand why it is so important for you to hear that every time someone questions Zimmerman’s fairy tale. No, but If you quote one of my posts, but your response is a total non-sequitur, then I can interpret you post in any way I want. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3317 "2012-07-09T01:58:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wouldn’t it also be consistent with the evidence to say that Zimmerman followed Martin and asked him an offensive question, to which Martin responded by punching Zimmerman in the nose, and then things continued as you speculate? Zimmerman says he was looking for a street sign and not following Martin. Why should we give his other “evidence” any credence when he lies about his motivation for being where he was, when he was. That is what is so crazy about this case. He can tell a huge doozy of a lie–like that Martin had an accomplice and both of them tagged team him–and the rebuttal would be, “Well, how do you know that DIDN’T happen? The evidence supports it!” Just because the evidence doesn’t refute something does not mean it supports it. The prosecution does not have to disprove any ole crazy claim that is made. If this was true, court cases would be much stranger affairs than they already are. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3318 "2012-07-09T02:00:37Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > No, but If you quote one of my posts, but your response is a total non-sequitur, then I can interpret you post in any way I want. So you are saying you hear what you want to hear, and disregard the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3319 "2012-07-09T02:05:27Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > I thought he came in a little lighter than that. He doesn’t look to be fatty in his PD photos. If he’s 100lb and 5’7" he’s a tough mofo. > > I think he weighed at least a stone or two less than 200 lb the night of those pictures. That was from the doctor who examined him, who also described Zimmerman as “obese.” Zimmerman suffers from ADHD, a bad back, inflamed lower joints, indigestion problems. I rather doubt he’s in the best of physical condition. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3320 "2012-07-09T02:14:04Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > That was from the doctor who examined him, who also described Zimmerman as “obese.” Zimmerman suffers from ADHD, a bad back, inflamed lower joints, indigestion problems. I rather doubt he’s in the best of physical condition. Did you decide “middle-aged” was a bridge too far, even for you? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3321 "2012-07-09T02:14:51Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That is wild speculation. it’s speculation on his girlfriend’s part that it was Martin. It’s also hearsay which means it’s not likely to make it into trial. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=165) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=167)