# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 181
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3602 "2012-07-13T20:03:28Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > This kinda blows a hole in the idea that poor Georgie wasn’t smart enough or trained enough in the law to come up with his story that ostensibly, if taken at face value, indicates self defense. His buddy coached him the whole time, and made sure he knew exactly what to say in his story and reenactment, and exactly what to leave out, such as any attempts to keep Martin from getting away before the police arrived. He coached him while the EMTs were working on Zimmerman in the squad car, before they police hauled him off to the police station and the police and the EMTs didn’t notice? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3603 "2012-07-13T20:10:18Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > - The hole in Martin’s hoodie does not line up with the hole in his chest or shirt. Who can guess what this might mean? Because Martin was leaning over Zimmerman and the Hoodie was drooping it isn’t surprising that the holes didn’t line up. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3604 "2012-07-13T20:25:25Z")
I didn’t expect to be right this soon. [http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/7/13/george\_zimmerman\_mot.html](http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/7/13/george_zimmerman_mot.html) ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3605 "2012-07-13T20:40:58Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I didn’t expect to be right this soon. > > [http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/7/13/george\_zimmerman\_mot.html](http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/7/13/george_zimmerman_mot.html) Here is the motion: [http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press\_Releases/motion%20to%20disqualify%20Judge%20Lester.pdf](http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/motion%20to%20disqualify%20Judge%20Lester.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3606 "2012-07-13T20:41:41Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > He coached him while the EMTs were working on Zimmerman in the squad car, before they police hauled him off to the police station and the police and the EMTs didn’t notice? He talked to Zimmerman before he was taken to the police station, which is where he made his official statements, right? I didn’t say he told him the entire story, but are you saying he could not have possibly given him any advice on what he needed to make sure he didn’t say? You are ruling this out as a possibility? We know they talked before he went to the station to give his statement. We know he is aware of the law and could advise Zimmerman on anything related to this. How are you so certain he didn’t help Zimmerman with anything? We also know he was with him at the reenactment. How can you be so certain that he _didn’t_ help him? That seems the more extreme position to me really. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3607 "2012-07-13T20:43:43Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Here is the motion: > > [http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press\_Releases/motion%20to%20disqualify%20Judge%20Lester.pdf](http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/motion%20to%20disqualify%20Judge%20Lester.pdf) OK, let us know when this is granted. That would actually be news. Defense attorneys will file any motion at all that they think will help their client. Is O’Mara doing his job really that big a deal? You know that him filing this motion is not the same as the assertion in the motion being proven true, right? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3608 "2012-07-13T20:44:31Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Haven’t you been sticking up for your buddy JoelUpchurch in these responses? > > If not, then what was the point of your responses regarding this issue? Just obfuscation then? My responses, “my” responses, have been related to posts in this thread. Any confusion as to who said what seems to have been on your part. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3609 "2012-07-13T20:52:24Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > My responses, “my” responses, have been related to posts in this thread. Any confusion as to who said what seems to have been on your part. This particular discussion started with JoelUpchurch asserting that Judge Lester’s remarks in the bond hearing decision were him trying to get himself thrown off of the case because he didn’t want to be there, rather than the much more simple explanation that he simply felt that way about Zimmerman’s actions regarding the way he misled the court. The points about different Judges recusing themselves (running away from the case because its going to be a circus, and because Al Sharpton might say very bad things about them etc…) were supposed to somehow support this ridiculous claim. This is where you came in, defending JoelUpchurch’s side of that conversation. Otherwise, what was the point of your replies to this particular discussion? (Did you really think that I meant all of your posts in the entire thread?) You appear to be the one who is confused about what you are posting about, and to what you are responding. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3610 "2012-07-13T20:54:20Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > This kinda blows a hole in the idea that poor Georgie wasn’t smart enough or trained enough in the law to come up with his story that ostensibly, if taken at face value, indicates self defense. **His buddy coached him the whole time, and made sure he knew exactly what to say in his story and reenactment, and exactly what to leave out, such as any attempts to keep Martin from getting away before the police arrived.** > [@Airbeck](#): > > He talked to Zimmerman before he was taken to the police station, which is where he made his official statements, right? **I didn’t say he told him the entire story, but are you saying he could not have possibly given him any advice on what he needed to make sure he didn’t say?** You are ruling this out as a possibility? We know they talked before he went to the station to give his statement. We know he is aware of the law and could advise Zimmerman on anything related to this. How are you so certain he didn’t help Zimmerman with anything? We also know he was with him at the reenactment. How can you be so certain that he _didn’t_ help him? That seems the more extreme position to me really. Yes, you said, “His buddy coached him the whole time, and made sure he knew exactly what to say in his story and reenactment, and exactly what to leave out, such as any attempts to keep Martin from getting away **before the police arrived**.” That certainly sounds like you said his buddy told him the entire story. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3611 "2012-07-13T20:59:36Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Yes, you said, “His buddy coached him the whole time, and made sure he knew exactly what to say in his story and reenactment, and exactly what to leave out, such as any attempts to keep Martin from getting away **before the police arrived**.” > > That certainly sounds like you said his buddy told him the entire story. You misread that part about ‘before the police arrived’. It did not read that he helped him with all of this before the police arrived. But rather that he could have told George not to tell the police that he tried to detain martin and keep him around until the police arrived on the scene. Does that help clarify things for you? You sort of grabbed that last phrase out of the sentence as if the rest of the sentence wasn’t there. I’m not saying this certainly happened. But you cannot say with certainty that it didn’t. Why did Shellie call him if not to ask him to help George out of this situation? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3612 "2012-07-13T21:03:07Z")
Is Judge Belvin Perry in the same district as Lester? Would be ironic if Perry got assigned to another high profile case. Perry is chief judge in Florida’s Ninth Judicial Circuit. > [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Here is the motion: > > [http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press\_Releases/motion%20to%20disqualify%20Judge%20Lester.pdf](http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/motion%20to%20disqualify%20Judge%20Lester.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3613 "2012-07-13T21:08:46Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You misread that part about ‘before the police arrived’. **It did not read that he helped him with all of this before the police arrived.** But rather that he could have told George not to tell the police that he tried to detain martin and keep him around until the police arrived on the scene. Backpeddle much? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3614 "2012-07-13T21:09:08Z")
**Never Mind** - Lester is in the 18th Circuit. I guess Judge Perry won’t be assigned then. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3615 "2012-07-13T21:18:23Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Backpeddle much? Lack reading comprehension much? Its just a prepositional phrase, it isn’t that hard. You are getting exactly the wrong meaning from it. ‘before the police arrived’ is the end of the phrase ‘keep Martin from getting away before the police arrived’. You are only seeing the part starting with the word ‘before’ and treating it as a completely separate thought for some reason. I don’t see a comma or a period there, so I’m not sure why you keep separating that part out of the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3616 "2012-07-13T21:19:12Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Here is the motion: > > [http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press\_Releases/motion%20to%20disqualify%20Judge%20Lester.pdf](http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/motion%20to%20disqualify%20Judge%20Lester.pdf) I read the motion. The most interesting part is that O’Mara says that there probably have been no indictment if this case had been submitted to a grand jury. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3617 "2012-07-13T21:21:54Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I’ve seen no statements by Zimmerman where he self-identifies as “out of shape”. Sounds like an opinion to me. Someone earlier in this thread quoted his doctor as saying he was obese. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3618 "2012-07-13T21:23:30Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I read the motion. The most interesting part is that O’Mara says that there probably have been no indictment if this case had been submitted to a grand jury. O’Mara said that huh? And that’s a surprise? He’s a defense attorney making a case for his client. He’d be incompetent if he didn’t word his motion as strongly as he could. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3619 "2012-07-13T21:30:57Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I read the motion. The most interesting part is that O’Mara says that there probably have been no indictment if this case had been submitted to a grand jury. Which means…what exactly? O’Mara just sounds like a whiner with that. He should put his money where his mouth and file a motion to get the case dismissed, if this is his position. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3620 "2012-07-13T21:39:19Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Which means…what exactly? > > O’Mara just sounds like a whiner with that. He should put his money where his mouth and file a motion to get the case dismissed, if this is his position. It means that he has seen the discovery evidence and the prosecution didn’t have enough evidence to get an indictment out of a grand jury must less a conviction at trial. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3621 "2012-07-13T21:46:44Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > O’Mara said that huh? And that’s a surprise? He’s a defense attorney making a case for his client. He’d be incompetent if he didn’t word his motion as strongly as he could. Strongly is the right word. He has burned his bridges as far as appearing in front of Judge Lester again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=180) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=182)