# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/21 "2012-04-18T23:57:42Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > It’s also possible that Zimmerman was sent from a planet orbiting a distant star to rid the earth of black people one at a time. or worse, mentor them. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/22 "2012-04-19T00:13:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > absolutely, but that begs the question what has changed with the new prosecutor. You could just as easily ask why was the homicide detective’s recommendation was overruled by the state attorneys office. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/23 "2012-04-19T00:23:58Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I don’t think it gets past the SYG self defense hearing. There’s no real evidence that Zimmerman threw the first punch, and enough showing that he was under attack. Even if Zimmerman walked up to Martin, he was still in a place he legally had a right to be, and not doing anything illegal. Prosecutors have to show that Zimmerman threw the first punch, or otherwise started the physical confrontation. With no eyewitness, no injuries to Martin, and the injuries to Zimmerman, they have an uphill battle. Zimmerman might have committed assault by pulling out his pistol and pointing it at Martin. Of course, if Martin had punched Zimmerman out when Zimmerman pointed a pistol at him, then Martin was an idiot. I’m not sure how they would prove that without finding Martin’s finger prints on the pistol or something. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/24 "2012-04-19T00:43:14Z")
[http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-judge-expected-recuse/story?id=16162592#.T49doEVSQ04](http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-judge-expected-recuse/story?id=16162592#.T49doEVSQ04) This part got my attention. > [@](#): > > A bond hearing is scheduled on Friday for Zimmerman in Sanford. But legal analysts tell ABC News bail is seldom if ever granted in second degree murder cases. > > **Called an Arthur Case in Florida, the prosecution will have to demonstrate that to some degree the defendant committed a crime and that the presumption of guilt is great.** Many such hearings unfold as mini-trials in which witnesses are heard. Ultimately the judge makes a decision on whether the defendant should be released pending trial. I wonder if we will actually learn more about what evidence is available? Of course, if the prosecution doesn’t fight bond, then we might not learn squat. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/25 "2012-04-19T00:45:00Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > You could just as easily ask why was the homicide detective’s recommendation was overruled by the state attorneys office. well you could but he’s not a lawyer. Not really an apples to apples comparison. And he wasn’t overruled. It wasn’t up to him to rule on it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/26 "2012-04-19T01:00:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > well you could but he’s not a lawyer. Not really an apples to apples comparison. And he wasn’t overruled. It wasn’t up to him to rule on it in the first place. Of course it was. Cops can make an arrest any time they suspect probable cause. And if you doubt me, you can read it straight from the Fl state attorneys office. > **[Prosecutor denies interfering in florida shooting case](https://www.covers.com/forum/politics-87/prosecutor-denies-interfering-in-florida-shooting-case-101312221)** > > SANFORD, Florida (Reuters) - A Florida prosecutor who removed himself from the investigation into the shooting death of | Learn more at Covers Forum ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/27 "2012-04-19T01:15:04Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Of course it was. Cops can make an arrest any time they suspect probable cause. And if you doubt me, you can read it straight from the Fl state attorneys office. > > [Prosecutor denies interfering in florida shooting case - Politics | Covers](http://www.covers.com/postingforum/post01/showmessage.aspx?spt=87&sub=101312221) and why would an officer need to consult with the DA? because he’s not a lawyer and needed a legal opinion on the matter. If he arrested Zimmerman against the advice of the lawyers representing the department then he makes himself legally vulnerable. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/28 "2012-04-19T01:32:01Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Zimmerman might have committed assault by pulling out his pistol and pointing it at Martin. Of course, if Martin had punched Zimmerman out when Zimmerman pointed a pistol at him, then Martin was an idiot. I’m not sure how they would prove that without finding Martin’s finger prints on the pistol or something. The point is that there is no direct evidence contradicting Zimmerman’s account, and some supporting it. A lot of things might have happened, but the prosecutor has an uphill climb proving anything criminal did. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/29 "2012-04-19T01:38:24Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > We’ll find out what they say. It sounds to me like Zimmerman assaulted Martin, who was legally in a place he was supposed to be. Note, I said assault, not assault and battery. What needs to be determined, based on the credible evidence is the sequence of events that followed that. But even the conduct leading up to the confrontation has not been established with any rigor. It’s all stories right now that haven’t been examined closely. I haven’t heard anything that would lead me to conclude either of them committed the first battery. Assault in Florida is defined as: > [@](#): > > An “assault” is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent. So you have the same problems. You have to show Zimmerman’s actions are unlawful. Watching someone walking down the street isn’t unlawful. Getting out of a truck to see where someone ran off to isn’t unlawful. The prosecutor will need to articulate the unlawful act of Zimmerman, and show why that should have created a well-founded fear in Martin. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/30 "2012-04-19T01:47:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > and why would an officer need to consult with the DA? because he’s not a lawyer and needed a legal opinion on the matter. If he arrested Zimmerman against the advice of the lawyers representing the department then he makes himself legally vulnerable. Bold assertions offered without substantiation. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/31 "2012-04-19T02:03:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > and why would an officer need to consult with the DA? because he’s not a lawyer and needed a legal opinion on the matter. If he arrested Zimmerman against the advice of the lawyers representing the department then he makes himself legally vulnerable. Allow me to take a page from the pro-Zimmerman playbook: Obviously, SA Wolfinger’s actions were politically motivated. This would be a difficult case to prosecute and he has a long record of playing it safe, especially when the the victim is poor and/or black. I’m sure his foremost concern was keeping the NRA and Magistrate Zimmerman happy. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/32 "2012-04-19T02:27:30Z")
> [@treis](#): > > The point is that there is no direct evidence contradicting Zimmerman’s account, and some supporting it. A lot of things might have happened, but the prosecutor has an uphill climb proving anything criminal did. The correct way to phrase it is: at point is that there is no direct evidence, **we know about** contradicting Zimmerman’s account. We don’t anything about the forensic or medical evidence. We know it is there, but we don’t know the content. I will concede that unless Corey has a lot more than what she showed in the affidavit, she could be spending a lot of time and money getting Zimmerman acquitted. I’m hoping Corey may have to reveal more about her evidence during the bond hearing Friday. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/33 "2012-04-19T02:29:51Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Bold assertions offered without substantiation. um what? As in WTH are you talking about? If the officer thought he had reason to arrest Zimmerman then why didn’t he? Seriously, WTH is your point? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/34 "2012-04-19T02:44:12Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Obviously, SA Wolfinger’s actions were politically motivated. This would be a difficult case to prosecute and he has a long record of playing it safe, especially when the the victim is poor and/or black. I’m sure his foremost concern was keeping the NRA and Magistrate Zimmerman happy. He might try to keep the NRA happy, but I haven’t seen any data that he has any reason to humor Magistrate Zimmerman. I did some google searches on Robert Zimmerman and as far as I can tell, Robert Zimmerman is a nobody in Seminole county. If you have any data to the contrary, please post a link, so I can put it in my database. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/35 "2012-04-19T02:51:18Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m interested in how his bail hearing goes. April 20th. From some indications, it may be that he’d prefer to remain in protective custody for a while. Of course, he may reconsider that if he knows that it will take a year or so to get to the trial. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/36 "2012-04-19T03:04:14Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > um what? As in WTH are you talking about? If the officer thought he had reason to arrest Zimmerman then why didn’t he? Seriously, WTH is your point? Apparently, because the SA’s office wouldn’t sign off on it at that pint. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/37 "2012-04-19T03:04:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > April 20th. > > From some indications, it may be that he’d prefer to remain in protective custody for a while. Of course, he may reconsider that if he knows that it will take a year or so to get to the trial. Is there any reason he has to post bond immediately if Judge Lester grants it? He could just wait to post bond when the security arrangements are made. As you say, Seminole county jail is the safest place for him. If they take him out of solitary and put him in the general population, then that could change real fast. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/38 "2012-04-19T03:06:22Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Obviously, SA Wolfinger’s actions were politically motivated. ftr, it was Wolfinger’s office, not Wolfinger himself. He wrote a nasty little press release to that effect on 04/02 ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/39 "2012-04-19T03:11:55Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > The correct way to phrase it is: at point is that there is no direct evidence, **we know about** contradicting Zimmerman’s account. > > We don’t anything about the forensic or medical evidence. We know it is there, but we don’t know the content. I will concede that unless Corey has a lot more than what she showed in the affidavit, she could be spending a lot of time and money getting Zimmerman acquitted. > > I’m hoping Corey may have to reveal more about her evidence during the bond hearing Friday. Sure, there’s always the chance of some big reveal piece of evidence that shows Zimmerman’s guilt. As time goes on, that possibility is becoming less and less likely. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/40 "2012-04-19T03:21:16Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Of course it was. Cops can make an arrest any time they suspect probable cause. And if you doubt me, you can read it straight from the Fl state attorneys office. > > [Prosecutor denies interfering in florida shooting case - Politics | Covers](http://www.covers.com/postingforum/post01/showmessage.aspx?spt=87&sub=101312221) I doubt you. And I read your link, which accurately states: > [@](#): > > “Police officers can make an arrest at virtually any dadgum point they feel they have enough probable cause to make an arrest,” Bumpus-Hooper said. “They do not need our permission and they do not seek our permission.” Please note the word ‘virtually’ in the quote you link to and the absence of it in your repetition. It’s true that in almost every case, police may make an arrest merely upon their determination of probable cause, but there are also well-known exceptions that require a warrant. The unfortunately-named Bumpus-Hooper covers himself by saying _virtually_. You cite his comment but don’t use his caveat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=3)