# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 200
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3982 "2012-07-18T18:23:33Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > … I’m expressing a strong difference of opinions. My tone was to imply just how far apart our opinions are. Not to call you a monster… Where did I demonize you or anyone else in any post? Aside from your thoughts that Zimmerman defenders have a “very weak moral makeup” followed by the implication that I “have none at all”? (By the way, I’m not condemning your personal attacks- just pointing out the hypocrisy inherent in your condemnation). ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3983 "2012-07-18T18:26:55Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Cite? Can you post a recent case of a person or persons convicted of lynching? Has Holder’s justus dept or the State of Florida arrested the New Black Panther party members who distributed the original flyers calling for Zimmerman to be brought in Dead or Alive (murdered or kinapped)? Or for the flyers calling for Zimmermans capture (kidnapping)? The FBI investigated possible charges of civil rights violations and racism against Zimmerman and they didn’t find anything CREDIBLE. How is it that people still bring up one disgruntled, co-worker of Zimmerman as proof that he’s a racist? What did the other co-workers have to say about Zimmerman or the disgruntled co-worker? Is the co-worker actually the racist? That didn’t make the news. Even W9 can’t provide any evidence that Zimmerman is a racist. Does this mean that we’ll never again heard someone say that Zimmerman is a racist just because Federal and State authorities say they can’t find any evidence that he’s actually a racist? Or will the lynch mob mentality of “guilty until proven innocent” still rein supreme over the internet? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3984 "2012-07-18T18:29:46Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > Aside from your thoughts that Zimmerman defenders have a “very weak moral makeup” followed by the implication that I “have none at all”? (By the way, I’m not condemning your personal attacks- just pointing out the hypocrisy inherent in your condemnation). When did I demonize someone again? Accuse them of being a monster? A racist murderer? I’m not seeing that part, which would indeed indicate hypocrisy, if you can find it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3985 "2012-07-18T18:32:23Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Has Holder’s justus dept or the State of Florida arrested the New Black Panther party members who distributed the original flyers calling for Zimmerman to be brought in Dead or Alive (murdered or kinapped)? Or for the flyers calling for Zimmermans capture (kidnapping)? > > The FBI investigated possible charges of civil rights violations and racism against Zimmerman and they didn’t find anything CREDIBLE. How is it that people still bring up one disgruntled, co-worker of Zimmerman as proof that he’s a racist? What did the other co-workers have to say about Zimmerman or the disgruntled co-worker? Is the co-worker actually the racist? That didn’t make the news. Even W9 can’t provide any evidence that Zimmerman is a racist. > > Does this mean that we’ll never again heard someone say that Zimmerman is a racist just because Federal and State authorities say they can’t find any evidence that he’s actually a racist? Or will the lynch mob mentality of “guilty until proven innocent” still rein supreme over the internet? So no, you can’t cite that lynch mobs exist? Now its just a mentality that you are talking about? I’m trying to see if I can get a picture of just how many people it is that are hunting down Zimmerman to murder him currently. Can you provide an estimate at least? Do they have actual pitchforks and torches, or just metaphorical ones? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3986 "2012-07-18T18:47:11Z")
Lynch mob mentality is still around, but very few people carry around rope anymore . You might want to Google the phrase “beaten by mob”. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3987 "2012-07-18T18:54:57Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > You might want to Google the phrase “beaten by mob”. Why, what’s the relevance? What does that phrase have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3988 "2012-07-18T18:59:55Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > 1. I don’t think at 7 or 8 years someone is old enough to “molest” _anyone_, much less someone of roughly the same age. > 2. At no time during her “revelations” did she mention violence or threats of violence from Zimmerman of any way, shape or kind. Absolutely none. In fact, all she says he did was tell her to tell adults they were just playing hide and seek. Which is what she does. > 3. I don’t think someone, at the age of 16, would accept their scary “abuser’s” invitation to come over and visit, much less lie down for a “massage” from them. So you’ve got some statistics or expertise to legitimize claims 1 and 3? I think you’re treading in dangerous water. I don’t think it’s wise to presume that molestation, unwanted touching, whatever you want to call it has an age limit. Nor do I think you know enough to surmise that a 16 year old couldn’t be coerced into nonconsensual sexual contact of some kind. > [@emeraldia](#): > > A _credible_ witness account of actions consistent with coercion, intimidation, threats, or force helps. Based on _her_ testimony it appears that, at the very worst, she was a reluctant, but willing participant who later felt ashamed of her actions. To you, perhaps. I don’t see any evidence of the sort. Here’s the problem with your arguments: you’ve determined that anything not verified isn’t true if it speaks ill of good ol’ George. But here you are speculating that you know the motives of W9, that she wasn’t in fact molested at a young age, and that she was apparently up for bumping and grinding with George, but later regretted it because he was so awesome. How do you make the case for your claims? > [@](#): > > Do you know where the family “confrontation” took place at? A public restaurant. And this means what? Confrontations don’t take place in public places? > [@](#): > > I’m not too impressed with the prosecution’s tactics of character assassination. The prosecution has proven that Zimmerman is not a saint. _Slow, deliberate, sarcastic applause_ My tax money well spent. Here’s the reality: we will probably never have verifiable accounts of what exactly happened that night, because Trayvon is dead and no eyewitnesses can corroborate more than a few details in the story. But here’s what we do know: Martin was in fact not in violation of any law and he had a right and reason to be where he was. Zimmerman has a history of at best embellishing the truth and at worst, lying; he has been arrested for assaulting a police officer (odd, for someone supposedly so reverent about law and order); he has a history of violent behavior towards others. So when we have to depend on the firsthand account of an individual and little else, it’s only fair that we know something about their character. How likely are they to be telling the truth? Very few of us are evil incarnate. He could have in fact mentored Black kids and still racially profiled Martin. I’m open to the possibility that Zimmerman is a complex, multifaceted individual who made a series of very poor choices that resulted in the death of an innocent minor. But I’m fairly bemused by the canonization of Zimmerman by you and others in this thread (yes, I’m being hyperbolic). At best, his judgment is such that I would not want him as the self-appointed guardian of the neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3989 "2012-07-18T19:03:49Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Why, what’s the relevance? > > What does that phrase have to do with anything? Because several people have been assaulted by mobs this year in the U.S. You are pretending to be stupid because it blows your thesis out of the water. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3990 "2012-07-18T19:06:31Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Because several people have been assaulted by mobs this year in the U.S. You are pretending to be stupid because it blows your thesis out of the water. Noone is throwing the term ‘mob member’ around this thread though. Is there a mob after Zimmerman? How many members does this mob have? I’m not pretending to be stupid, you are just throwing non sequiters around like they mean something and I’m supposed to just know how it relates somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3991 "2012-07-18T19:13:29Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I have no idea if you are a member of a lynch mob. I consider NBC/MSNBC and ABC deliberately altering video and audio to prove that Zimmerman was a racist is the action of a lynch mob mentality. I consider Sharpton and Spike Lee’s claims and actions to be that of a lynch mob. I consider the people who raided stores to steal Skittles and “Ice Tea” (why didn’t they steal Watermellon drink? Martin wasn’t carrying “Ice Tea”.) to participate in their protests as the actions of a lynch mob. Lynch mobs exist. > > Lynch mobs don’t believe that anyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Let me suggest to you widespread public disapproval is a logical consequence of raping children and murdering random strangers. Maybe rape and murder are a okay in your community. They aren’t in mine. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3992 "2012-07-18T19:17:44Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Noone is throwing the term ‘mob member’ around this thread though. > > Is there a mob after Zimmerman? How many members does this mob have? > > I’m not pretending to be stupid, you are just throwing non sequiters around like they mean something and I’m supposed to just know how it relates somehow. You use the term mob in 3983 and now you are are trying to lawyer out of it. It would be funny if it wasn’t so lame ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3993 "2012-07-18T19:29:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Mike Nifong. > > Or did you mean, literally, the crime of murder, and the circumstances of that murder being a hanging outdoors on a tree? Weak, dude. I think you can do better than our 2012 members. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3994 "2012-07-18T19:36:26Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > When did I demonize someone again?..I’m not seeing that part, which would indeed indicate hypocrisy, if you can find it anyway. > [@Airbeck](#): > > I was thinking that you **Zimmerman apologizers** had **very weak moral makeup** , but now it seems that at least some of you have **none at all.** Short of you _literally_ calling someone a “monster” or a “demon”, I don’t think it gets any more clear-cut than this. Definition of ‘monster’ or ‘demon’ - “a wicked person”. Definition of ‘wicked’ - “Morally bad”. Do you need me to spell it out any further, or can you take it from here? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3995 "2012-07-18T19:44:41Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > You use the term mob in 3983 and now you are are trying to lawyer out of it. It would be funny if it wasn’t so lame No I did not. It isn’t cool to lie about other posters. In fact its quite lame. I used the same term this entire conversation has been about ‘lynch mobs’. Your weak sauce mob bs is laughable. Want to try again? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3996 "2012-07-18T19:46:51Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > Short of you _literally_ calling someone a “monster” or a “demon”, I don’t think it gets any more clear-cut than this. Definition of ‘monster’ or ‘demon’ - “a wicked person”. Definition of ‘wicked’ - “Morally bad”. Do you need me to spell it out any further, or can you take it from here? Really, is this all you have? This is identical to repeatedly calling someone a lynch mob member? Come on. Doesn’t get more clear cut? Ha! Did you end up getting a hold of those straws that you were grasping at? Just wondering. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3997 "2012-07-18T19:50:26Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > No I did not. It isn’t cool to lie about other posters. In fact its quite lame. > > I used the same term this entire conversation has been about ‘lynch mobs’. > > Your weak sauce mob bs is laughable. > > Want to try again? So it your position that mobs do exist, they just don’t have rope? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3998 "2012-07-18T19:50:54Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > …So when we have to depend on the firsthand account of an individual and little else, it’s only fair that we know something about their character. **How likely are they to be telling the truth**? And what is actually known about W9’s character? What is actually known about the co-workers character? What is actually known about Zimmerman’s character? What was actually known about Martin’s character? What is actually known about Sharpton’s character? These are all things that are under discussion. Each new release spurs more discussion. Some people assume that W9 must be telling the truth simply because she made a statement. I know she can’t provide any evidence of racism but it’s still possible that someone might back up her molestation claim. I’ll wait here. You’re the juror. You’ve heard as much of the evidence as the rest of us. Do you believe both of W9’s accusations? Can you convince the other jurors that your belief is well founded? Does her story promote reasonable doubt? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/3999 "2012-07-18T19:54:14Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > So it your position that mobs do exist, they just don’t have rope? Why do you keep ignoring the first word of the phrase: ‘Lynch Mobs’ That is the phrase we are talking about. Talking about the word mob by itself is a useless distraction and meaningless to the conversation. Does that make it clearer? Jeez, its like you have a blind spot for the word lynch. Are you simply not able to see that word or something? Also, you should apologize for lying about what I said in a previous post. You insulted me for it too and the insult was based on your lie. That sort of thing is frowned upon here. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4000 "2012-07-18T19:56:43Z")
Apparently there is actually a charge for this in Virginia: [http://http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/\_news/2012/05/03/11524741-teen-arrested-in-mob-assault-on-2-reporters-in-norfolk-va?lite](http://http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/03/11524741-teen-arrested-in-mob-assault-on-2-reporters-in-norfolk-va?lite) > [@](#): > > Norfolk Police Chief Sharon Chamberlin said at the news conference the juvenile suspect, who was not named, was charged with throwing a missile at a vehicle, a felony, two counts of **simple assault by mob** , destruction of property and participation in a riot, NBC station WAVY reported. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4001 "2012-07-18T20:02:34Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Let me suggest to you widespread public disapproval is a logical consequence of raping children and murdering random strangers. Maybe rape and murder are a okay in your community. They aren’t in mine. What rape are you referring to? Do you disapprove of falsely accusing someone of rape? Do you disapprove of people defending themselves? Do you disapprove of the State of Florida permitting taxpaying voters to carry firearms, regardless of what the taxpaying voters want? Have you already decided that Zimmerman is guilty regardless of what some silly ol’ court might eventually decide? Is the court case getting in the way of your guilty until proven innocent mentality? Lynch mobs don’t require court rooms. A law abiding society does. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=199) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=201)