# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 201
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4002 "2012-07-18T20:03:19Z")
LYNCH mobs, JoelUpchurch. LYNCH mobs. Are you really not able to see that word somehow? Here it is once more: LYNCH Can we stay on topic now please? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4003 "2012-07-18T20:05:02Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > What rape are you referring to? Do you disapprove of falsely accusing someone of rape? Do you disapprove of people defending themselves? Do you disapprove of the State of Florida permitting taxpaying voters to carry firearms, regardless of what the taxpaying voters want? > > Have you already decided that Zimmerman is guilty regardless of what some silly ol’ court might eventually decide? Is the court case getting in the way of your guilty until proven innocent mentality? > > Lynch mobs don’t require court rooms. A law abiding society does. You keep calling us lynch mob members and we should start calling you a child rape apologist. Both inaccurate and inflammatory. So, that’s fair right? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4004 "2012-07-18T20:08:10Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > LYNCH mobs, JoelUpchurch. LYNCH mobs. > > Are you really not able to see that word somehow? > > Here it is once more: LYNCH > > Can we stay on topic now please? If you want to only talk about lynch mobs, then I suggest you start a thread about it. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4005 "2012-07-18T20:12:42Z")
In other news, O’Mara is looking like a liar along with his client. [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/17/2898502/jail-call-says-defense-attorney.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/17/2898502/jail-call-says-defense-attorney.html) > [@](#): > > In the roughly 37 hours George Zimmerman spent talking on the phone during his first stint in jail, there are several minutes that could land his defense attorney in hot water. > > One call suggests defense lawyer Mark O’Mara knew from the start that tens of thousands of dollars in donations had begun pouring in to help Zimmerman. > > In a phone call recorded April 14 between Zimmerman and brother-in-law Scott Wilson, the two discuss the new defense lawyer and the attorney’s vision for an upcoming bond hearing. Zimmerman twice said that he told O’Mara that he tried to transfer $37,000 from his online legal defense fund site, but could not complete the transaction because PayPal rules prevent transfers larger than $10,000. > > But in court later at Zimmerman’s bond hearing, O’Mara told the judge his client was broke. Like I said before, it is not surprising the defense counsel is trying to get a do-over with a new judge. Now that all the jail calls are coming out, plausible deniability has gone out the window. Boys and girls, this is why we should always tell the truth. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4006 "2012-07-18T20:17:06Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > ‘Lynch Mobs’ > > That is the phrase we are talking about. Talking about the word mob by itself is a useless distraction and meaningless to the conversation. > > Does that make it clearer? ‘Lynch Mobs’ Macmillan Dictionary - lynch mob 1 - a group of people who lynch someone who has not been proved guilty of any crime 2 - any group of angry people who want to take action that is not officially allowed Cambridge Dictionary - lynch mob a group of people who want to attack someone who they think has committed a serious crime The Free Dictionary - lynch mob 1. lynch mob - a mob that kills a person for some presumed offense without legal authority (mob, rabble, rout) - a disorderly crowd of people ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4007 "2012-07-18T20:18:29Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > So you’ve got some statistics or expertise to legitimize claims 1 and 3? Common sense should suffice for now. Can call in the child psychologists later. > [@](#): > > I think you’re treading in dangerous water. I don’t think it’s wise to presume that molestation, unwanted touching, whatever you want to call it has an age limit. And I don’t think it’s wise to presume molestation, especially when the molester is 8-years old. > [@](#): > > Nor do I think you know enough to surmise that a 16 year old couldn’t be coerced into nonconsensual sexual contact of some kind. Except there is no evidence of coercion of any kind. She said he “invited” her to his house. She said she accepted his invitation and drove over to his house. She said he told her to lie down on his bed for a massage. She said she lied down on his bed for the massage. She said she got uncomfortable by some of his actions and she chose to leave. She did not mention any retaliation or threats of retaliation on his part for her choice not to participate any further. > [@](#): > > To you, perhaps. I don’t see any evidence of the sort. Here’s the problem with your arguments: you’ve determined that anything not verified isn’t true if it speaks ill of good ol’ George. But here you are speculating that you know the motives of W9, that she wasn’t in fact molested at a young age, and that she was apparently up for bumping and grinding with George, but later regretted it because he was so awesome. How do you make the case for your claims? I think that is a bit of a distortion of my arguments. I’ve already made the case for my actual arguments above. > [@](#): > > And this means what? Confrontations don’t take place in public places? Generally, when a family has decided to confront another family member about a private, sensitive manner they don’t do it at Denny’s. > [@](#): > > Here’s the reality: we will probably never have verifiable accounts of what exactly happened that night, because Trayvon is dead and no eyewitnesses can corroborate more than a few details in the story. I agree that we will probably never have verifiable accounts of what _exactly_ happened that night. But we have verifiable accounts of a lot of the most relevant details in the story. > [@](#): > > But here’s what we do know: Martin was in fact not in violation of any law and he had a right and reason to be where he was. Up until he doubled back and relentlessly battered Zimmerman, I accept the truth of your statement. > [@](#): > > Zimmerman has a history of at best embellishing the truth and at worst, lying; he has been arrested for assaulting a police officer (odd, for someone supposedly so reverent about law and order); he has a history of violent behavior towards others. He pushed a guy in plain clothes he thought was attacking his friend- who later turned out to be an officer. I highly doubt that Zimmerman would have knowingly assaulted a police officer. Neither do the people who knew him best, like his ex, his wife, his friends, and family. In fact, there is no evidence that Zimmerman ever did a single thing that could have seriously hurt another human being. He **pushed** someone who was manhandling his friend, and he **slapped** an ex- who had previously slapped him. Upon examination, his “history of violent behavior” doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. > [@](#): > > So when we have to depend on the firsthand account of an individual and little else, it’s only fair that we know something about their character. How likely are they to be telling the truth? The truth is that we do not have to depend on Zimmerman’s account to reasonably believe he acted in self-defense. We have screams for help on a 911 tape. Zimmerman has a broken nose and a bloody head. A witness originally reported Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him up “MMA style”, “ground and pound”. Looks an awful lot like self-defense before Zimmerman even opens up his mouth. > [@](#): > > Very few of us are evil incarnate. He could have in fact mentored Black kids and still racially profiled Martin. I’m open to the possibility that Zimmerman is a complex, multifaceted individual who made a series of very poor choices that resulted in the death of an innocent minor. I’m open to all but the nine last words of this paragraph. I think it’s clear that Trayvon was not an “innocent” bystander that night and I think it was his poor choices that were the deciding factor in his ultimate death. > [@](#): > > But I’m fairly bemused by the canonization of Zimmerman by you and others in this thread (yes, I’m being hyperbolic). At best, his judgment is such that I would not want him as the self-appointed guardian of the neighborhood. First, he wasn’t self-appointed. Second, there is no canonization of him so much as defense from his demonization (by mobs of people, by the media, and then by Florida prosecutors. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4008 "2012-07-18T20:20:07Z")
> **[Sean Hannity Gets First Interview With George Zimmerman](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sean-hannity-george-zimmerman-interview_n_1683300)** > > Sean Hannity Gets First Interview With George Zimmerman Hannity! Zimmerman! One on [del]one[/del] two. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4009 "2012-07-18T20:24:18Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You keep calling _ **us** _ lynch mob members and _ **we** _ should start calling you a child rape apologist. > > Both inaccurate and inflammatory. So, that’s fair right? I have no idea if you belong to a lynch mob or a touring company of “Chicago”. Who is this “us” and “we” you are referring to? Are you speaking for some secret/unknown society that I’m not aware of? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4010 "2012-07-18T20:32:47Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > If you want to only talk about lynch mobs, then I suggest you start a thread about it. We are talking about lynch mobs because that is exactly the point of this side conversation and what it started over. Specifically the casualness and frequency that the term is levied at any of us who certain posters disagree with. Have you been paying attention to this entire conversation or just since the point you jumped in and tried to change the conversation to just the term mob? And actually, you should be the one starting the new thread because you are the one desperately trying to change the subject to just the word mob for some reason, which has nothing to do with this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4011 "2012-07-18T20:36:10Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > ‘Lynch Mobs’ > > Macmillan Dictionary - lynch mob > 1 - a group of people who lynch someone who has not been proved guilty of any crime > 2 - any group of angry people who want to take action that is not officially allowed > > Cambridge Dictionary - lynch mob > a group of people who want to attack someone who they think has committed a serious crime > > The Free Dictionary - lynch mob > > 1. lynch mob - a mob that kills a person for some presumed offense without legal authority > (mob, rabble, rout) - a disorderly crowd of people Ok, so which of these groups do I belong to specifically? Who am I attacking, what action am I advocating? Who have I killed? Am I being disorderly in some way? In other words, your point please? Are you saying that this justifies insinuating that anyone in this thread that disagrees with your viewpoint is part of a lynch mob and therefore fits one of these categories? ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4012 "2012-07-18T20:36:52Z")
“Norfolk Police Chief Sharon Chamberlin said at the news conference the juvenile suspect, who was not named, was charged with throwing a missile at a vehicle, a felony…” I would _hope_ it’s a felony. If its warhead had activated somebody could have really gotten hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4013 "2012-07-18T20:38:58Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I have no idea if you belong to a lynch mob or a touring company of “Chicago”. > > Who is this “us” and “we” you are referring to? Are you speaking for some secret/unknown society that I’m not aware of? Why the incessant use of the term lynch mob when responding to those that you disagree with then? What are you trying to say about those that don’t hold the same viewpoint as you? Its quite a strong term, so you are clearly trying to make a strong point with its constant and repeated use. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4014 "2012-07-18T20:40:23Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > … Up until he doubled back … Care to point me to the specific physical evidence, or witness statement that explicitly, not by inference or speculation, shows that he doubled back? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4015 "2012-07-18T20:44:01Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > “Norfolk Police Chief Sharon Chamberlin said at the news conference the juvenile suspect, who was not named, was charged with throwing a missile at a vehicle, a felony..” > I would _hope_ it’s a felony. If its warhead had activated somebody could have really gotten hurt. Ya might just want to bone up on the legal definition of “missile”. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4016 "2012-07-18T20:44:27Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > In other news, O’Mara is looking like a liar along with his client. [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/17/2898502/jail-call-says-defense-attorney.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/17/2898502/jail-call-says-defense-attorney.html) > > Like I said before, it is not surprising the defense counsel is trying to get a do-over with a new judge. Now that all the jail calls are coming out, plausible deniability has gone out the window. > > Boys and girls, this is why we should always tell the truth. Try to keep up. We have been discussing this since post #3935 ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4017 "2012-07-18T20:48:27Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Care to point me to the specific physical evidence, or witness statement that explicitly, not by inference or speculation, shows that he doubled back? > > CMC fnord! Nope, just inference based on time and physics. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4018 "2012-07-18T20:51:54Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Why the incessant use of the term lynch mob when responding to those that you disagree with then? What are you trying to say about those that don’t hold the same viewpoint as you? Its quite a strong term, so you are clearly trying to make a strong point with its constant and repeated use. Airbeck is a lynching lyncher that intends to lynch Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4019 "2012-07-18T20:53:02Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Let me suggest to you widespread public disapproval is a logical consequence of raping children and murdering random strangers. Maybe rape and murder are a okay in your community. They aren’t in mine. As there’s very little evidence he murdered anyone, and plenty that he didn’t, and he’s not even been _accused_ of rape, yes, he’d be ok in my community. Or, at least, I’d like to think he would. If your community disagrees, they are no better than lynch mobs. Speaking of which, there have certainly been posters on this board who have openly stated that Zimmerman needs to be punished for his actions, no matter what the law states, so yes, there have been potential lynch mob members here. That is what first prompted me to comment on this case, despite having no real connection to it. Because ignoring the process of law simply because you dislike someone, or their actions, is dangerous to everyone, and if America does it, it influences the rest of the world. People calling for that are far more dangerous than Zimmerman could ever be. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4020 "2012-07-18T20:53:33Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Why the incessant use of the term lynch mob when responding to those that you disagree with then? What are you trying to say about those that don’t hold the same viewpoint as you? Its quite a strong term, so you are clearly trying to make a strong point with its constant and repeated use. Forget it, Jake, it’s 2012town. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4021 "2012-07-18T20:53:55Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > Airbeck is a lynching lyncher that intends to lynch Zimmerman. This is against the rules of the SD. You can’t directly insult other posters like that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=200) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=202)