# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 205
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4082 "2012-07-19T02:33:32Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Go and take a look at the transcript of the 911 call - George was asked “are you following him” to which he replied “yeah” > > He didn’t get out of the truck to get an address. He got out of the truck to follow Martin. > > He had already given the police a house number. No, he didn’t give the police a house number. He gave them the address of the club house. Martin was long past this when he parked the truck. And there’s not doubt that he got out of the car to follow him. He also agreed to stop following him and meet up with the police. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4083 "2012-07-19T02:34:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What’s indefensible about defending yourself? > > Why are you defending a street punk who went out of his way to confront Zimmerman in his truck and then attack him viciously? He was already behind the houses when Zimmerman pulled up yet he decides to approach him? Martin is the aggressor in this scenario, not Zimmerman. When did this “confrontation” in the truck take place? Certainly not during the 911 call - unless you cal “looking at me” a confrontation. If that’s the bar you’re going to set - what do you call getting out of your truck and following someone? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4084 "2012-07-19T02:36:18Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > See, this is why I don’t trust the motives of the Zimmerman defenders. It just doesn’t seem credible to me that a person couldn’t understand why Martin might have been in fear for his life. there is no indication that Martin was in fear for his life. In fact his actions dictate just the opposite. He had ample time to walk home or call the police or do both. Instead, he chooses to confront Zimmerman not once but twice. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4085 "2012-07-19T02:39:43Z")
[http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/2012/07/18/exclusive-george-zimmerman-breaks-silence-hannity](http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/2012/07/18/exclusive-george-zimmerman-breaks-silence-hannity) ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4086 "2012-07-19T02:39:48Z")
[quote=“Magiver, post:4084, topic:619125”] there is no indication that Martin was in fear for his life. In fact his actions dictate just the opposite. He had ample time to walk home or call the police or do both. Instead, \*\*he chooses to confront Zimmerman not once but twice.[/\*\*QUOTE] Again - where was the “confrontation” in the truck? This would have to have taken place while Zimmerman was on the phone to the police right? Are you really and honestly going to say looking at someone is a confrontation? If you’re also going to take the line that Martin had time to get home, isn’t it equally logical that Zimmerman had no need to be out of his truck in the first place? ESPECIALLY, if we follow you logic that Martin had already confronted him, isn’t that even more reason to stay put? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4087 "2012-07-19T02:40:24Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > When did this “confrontation” in the truck take place? > > Certainly not during the 911 call - unless you cal “looking at me” a confrontation. Yes, I consider it confrontational when the “looking at me” follows the action of coming toward the truck. More importantly, it shows that Martin is not afraid of Zimmerman. > [@bengangmo](#): > > If that’s the bar you’re going to set - what do you call getting out of your truck and following someone? I call that keeping Martin in sight so he can direct the police toward him. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4088 "2012-07-19T02:45:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > there is no indication that Martin was in fear for his life. In fact his actions dictate just the opposite. He had ample time to walk home or call the police or do both. Instead, he chooses to confront Zimmerman not once but twice. Ummm…17-year-old kids don’t run away unless they’re seriously scared. Do you know how much face you lose if you run away? You don’t do that unless you think you’re in serious, immediate, danger. The kid ran away and hid and Zimmerman tracked him down. And you don’t criticize people who are frightened in a strange neighborhood, in the dark, in the rain, for not being able to find the fastest way home. I’ve been scared for my life before: The heart races, the vision tunnels, the adrenalin starts pumping, you start to lose fine motor control, the hands start shaking, the mind starts racing…a kid in an unfamiliar neighborhood late at night in the rain…would have no fucking idea which house was his or which was the right direction to run. You people are claiming that Zimmerman didn’t know where he was, but this visitor in a strange neighborhood knew exactly where he was? I also flat out don’t believe that he confronted Zimmerman twice. Zimmerman is a liar. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4089 "2012-07-19T02:45:41Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > If you’re also going to take the line that Martin had time to get home, isn’t it equally logical that Zimmerman had no need to be out of his truck in the first place? ESPECIALLY, if we follow you logic that Martin had already confronted him, isn’t that even more reason to stay put? The difference is the behavior of the two. Zimmerman did the right thing and called the police. Martin did the wrong thing and beat someone without any sign of letting up. Martin’s approach of Zimmerman just proves that he wasn’t in fear of him. They both stared at the other so the fear factor is relative to that. There’s no reason for Zimmerman to fear Martin at this point to any greater degree that Martin would fear Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4090 "2012-07-19T02:52:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The difference is the behavior of the two. Zimmerman did the right thing . . . There’s no reason for Zimmerman to fear Martin at this point to any greater degree that Martin would fear Zimmerman. I seriously don’t understand anyone who could believe this. It’s like trying to communicate with an alien intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4091 "2012-07-19T02:53:59Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Ummm…17-year-old kids don’t run away unless they’re seriously scared. Do you know how much face you lose if you run away? You don’t do that unless you think you’re in serious, immediate, danger. The kid ran away and hid and Zimmerman tracked him down. The kid came right out to Zimmerman’s truck. that’s not running away, that’s confronting head-on. > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > And you don’t criticize people who are frightened in a strange neighborhood, in the dark, in the rain, for not being able to find the fastest way home. but you do criticize people who could easily have walked the last 300 feet to get out of the rain and away from someone deemed frightening. That didn’t happen. > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I also flat out don’t believe that he confronted Zimmerman twice. Zimmerman is a liar. So he invented a lie on the phone to the police in a diabolical plot to get his ass beaten in the very near future in the hopes of killing a suspected burglar in self defense? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4092 "2012-07-19T02:58:53Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I seriously don’t understand anyone who could believe this. It’s like trying to communicate with an alien intelligence. I would expect alien’s to understand that it’s wrong to beat people. Do you think it’s OK to beat people? I would expect alien’s to understand that a suspicious person should be dealt with by professionals like the police. do you think that was the right thing to do? Which person did the logical and lawful thing? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4093 "2012-07-19T02:59:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The kid came right out to Zimmerman’s truck. Says who? Zimmerman? He’s a liar. > [@](#): > > but you do criticize people who could easily have walked the last 300 feet to get out of the rain and away from someone deemed frightening. That didn’t happen. So Zimmerman who lived in this neighborhood and patrolled the streets every day for years didn’t know where he was, and you believe that. But this kid who was scared for his life in a strange neighborhood in the dark in the rain knew he was 300 feet from the place he was temporarily staying? See, I hear this argument and I have trouble believing someone who cared about reality would make it. > [@](#): > > So he invented a lie on the phone to the police in a diabolical plot to get his ass beaten in the very near future in the hopes of killing a suspected burglar in self defense? Zimmerman is a liar. Liars lie. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4094 "2012-07-19T03:03:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I would expect alien’s to understand that it’s wrong to beat people. Do you think it’s OK to beat people? I think it’s better than shooting unarmed kids to death. You apparently have a different opinion. > [@](#): > > I would expect alien’s to understand that a suspicious person should be dealt with by professionals like the police. do you think that was the right thing to do? You mean, Zimmerman should have just called the police and stayed out of it? I FUCKING AGREE! > [@](#): > > Which person did the logical and lawful thing? Obviously the creepy, molesty, lying creep who shot an innocent kid to death. Gosh, you convinced me! I’m not going to continue this discussion. Have fun with your beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4095 "2012-07-19T03:13:45Z")
[quote=“Evil\_Economist, post:4093, topic:619125”] > [@Magiver](#): > > The kid came right out to Zimmerman’s truck. Says who? Zimmerman? He’s a liar. That’s your unsubstantiated opinion. > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So Zimmerman who lived in this neighborhood and patrolled the streets every day for years didn’t know where he was, and you believe that. he clearly knew exactly where he was based on the instructions he was giving. It’s also clear he didn’t know the name of the street. There’s no reason to lie about this because he’s trying to communicate where to go. To say that he’s lying about this makes no sense. > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > But this kid who was scared for his life in a strange neighborhood in the dark in the rain knew he was 300 feet from the place he was temporarily staying? Are you referring to the same person who told his girlfriend he was next to his house? The same person who knew where the 7-eleven was and where to cut through in the housing complex? Seems like he know’s exactly where he lives geographically. > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > See, I hear this argument and I have trouble believing someone who cared about reality would make it. > > Zimmerman is a liar. Liars lie. Zimmerman’s account coincides with witnesses. Martin was heard running by. this coincides with Zimmerman’s account that he was running. did you think he made that part up too? I’ll ask you again, did he invent a lie on the phone to the police in a diabolical plot to get his ass beaten in the very near future in the hopes of killing a suspected burglar in self defense? ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4096 "2012-07-19T03:14:46Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > From a definition of assault > If someone, bigger than you, got our of their car to follow you down the street in the dark and into a back lane - would you feel threatened by that activity? Is it reasonable to feel threatened by being very deliberately followed like this? It would make me nervous, but I would not feel threatened in the immediate sense of the word where I would feel the need to batter them. > [@](#): > > Note - we are not talking here about somebody walking to the same place as you, but someone that gets out of a car, in the dark, specifically to keep an eye on you. That would make me very very nervous about their intentions. I would be nervous, yes. > [@](#): > > All the more so if they subsequently approached me and wanted to know what are you doing here. I would actually be less nervous if all they did was ask me what I was doing there. Less nervous, but more annoyed. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4097 "2012-07-19T03:17:53Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > I would actually be less nervous if all they did was ask me what I was doing there. Less nervous, but more annoyed. Having been in the exact situation that’s how I felt. It was also pretty obvious they were watching out for the neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4098 "2012-07-19T03:19:28Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Go and take a look at the transcript of the 911 call - George was asked “are you following him” to which he replied “yeah” > > He didn’t get out of the truck to get an address. He got out of the truck to follow Martin. > > He had already given the police a house number. He gave the police a house number but he didn’t have the street name. He got out of the truck to keep an eye on Martin and then thought he would cross the walkway to get an address (on a street he knew the name of). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4099 "2012-07-19T03:22:48Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Stop making excuses for criminals. Zimmerman has never been convicted of a crime. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4100 "2012-07-19T03:23:03Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > [http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/2012/07/18/exclusive-george-zimmerman-breaks-silence-hannity](http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/2012/07/18/exclusive-george-zimmerman-breaks-silence-hannity) I read the transcript and there are very few surprises. It was interesting when when Zimmerman mentioned that English was a second language. He actually grew up speaking Spanish which his father was away in the army. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4101 "2012-07-19T03:26:58Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > See, I don’t find this argument credible either. I think if it were a white kid and an angry-looking black man, and the kid had shot the man (instead of punching him) gun boards would have overflowed with congratulations for the kid for defending himself. > [@](#): > > If the story came out that the angry man was neighborhood watch, they would have all criticized him for behaving in a manner that put the scared white kid in fear of his life. I can’t speak for gun boards. But if the white kid had visible injuries and there were a witness that had the angry-looking black man on top of the white kid beating him then they might very well support the white kid. Whoever had injuries, and whom witnesses saw being beaten up, would probably be supported for self-defense by most people. Those two elements are pretty important. There is a lot more than skin color to go on here. I agree that there are racists that would change sides regardless. > [@](#): > > Bullshit. I saw the photos. There was no damage. Martin threw a couple of stinging punches that wouldn’t have made a grown man in fear of his life. And Zimmerman was a fucking bouncer; he wasn’t some 80-year-old woman. Zimmerman shot Martin because he was pissed and his pride was wounded. Period. Zimmerman was screaming for help- he was obviously scared of something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=204) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=206)