# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 208
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4142 "2012-07-19T17:14:56Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Cite? Evidence that confirms he had a broken nose? Besides George telling everyone he had a broken nose, I mean. This is a joke post, right? Do you actually know _anything_ about this case? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4143 "2012-07-19T17:22:24Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > You’re hilarious. Your cite is that it was ‘verified’ that it was ‘probably’ broken. > > Yes, that’s EXACTLY the same thing as evidence that his nose was broken. > > By the way - your posts are bad enough once; they don’t get any better with repetition. And your response proves that you realize your statement was ridiculous and you want to argue about irrelevant semantics. The paramedic and the PA told Zimmerman his nose was probably broken. The EMT testified to that under oath at the bond hearing. It is not an unsupported assertion by George Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4144 "2012-07-19T17:29:09Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > The paramedic and the PA told Zimmerman his nose was probably broken. The EMT testified to that under oath at the bond hearing. It is not an unsupported assertion by George Zimmerman. OK, so was it “actually” broken? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4145 "2012-07-19T17:31:36Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Cool. > > Hey, I have a question that maybe you can help me with: I was at bat watching the pitcher wind up when I remembered an old news story about a batter killed by a wild pitch. > > So I shot the fucker. Self-defense, right? Excellent question. First of all – it has happened. On August 16th, 1920, at the Polo Grounds, the Cleveland Naps faced the New York Yankees; New York pitcher Carl Mays threw an outside ball at Naps player Ray Chapman. Chapman was hit in the temple, staggered a few steps, and dropped like a stone. He died twelve hours later. He never regained consciousness. So let’s imagine that you do something similar to what you hypothesized above – in Florida, so we’re dealing with the same set of laws. You are at bat, legally armed, and you recall the story of poor Ray Chapman. Instantly, you think to yourself that you should duck, but then recall that in Florida, you have no duty to retreat as long as you’re in a place you’re entitled to be and acting lawfully. And you fear for your life - so you shoot the pitcher! Under those facts, you have an argument that you are legally exercising self-defense. I do foresee a slight problem for you in the real world, though, and that will be convincing a jury that you truly feared for your life. That is, to convict you, the jury must find, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you didn’t fear for your life, OR that your fear was not reasonable. In contrast to our current case, in my opinion, a jury is far more likely to find that Zimmerman reasonably feared for his life than to find that Batter Evil reasonably feared for his life. Do you need me to lay out why this is so? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4146 "2012-07-19T17:32:19Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Just what people in this thread have been saying. If the broken nose thing is more of Zimmerman’s lies, that makes the shooting even less justified. You’d think the two of you (Dragon Ash and you) with such keen interest in this case would be better informed. [http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/05/16/george\_zimmerman\_medical\_report\_details\_injuries\_after\_confrontation\_with\_trayvon\_martin.html](http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/05/16/george_zimmerman_medical_report_details_injuries_after_confrontation_with_trayvon_martin.html) George Zimmerman had a broken nose, two black eyes, and two cuts on the back of his head the day after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin, according to a medical report from his family doctor. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4147 "2012-07-19T17:32:33Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > See, it’s shit like this that you drop throughout this thread that make it clear that you aren’t even in the ballpark of objectivity. What the living fuck is the “fast ‘gangster walk’” you speak of? And how the hell do you speak with such certainty that “I know what he was saying?” “A controlled stagger on either the left or right leg that causes one to limp in such a way that others will notice him.” Here ya go: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwGNfaN5Bqc](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwGNfaN5Bqc) I’m not sure if that’s actually Trayvon doing it- couldn’t see their face. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4148 "2012-07-19T17:35:57Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > These very rare occurrences are supposed to make me fear for my life if i am punched? > > I don’t get the point you’re trying to make. > > I doubt that there’s anyway to get a count of the number of punched thrown in the reporting area so that we can determine an accurate rate of these fatal single punches. However, I am inclined to believe that the number of punches thrown each day is enough to make these incidents seem astronomically unlikely. > > You have a point besides the one I have argued against I assume. Well, as hinted above, the task George has is that a jury has to find his fear of either dying or sustaining serious bodily injury was unreasonable. It’s obviously very unlikely to die, but it’s possible. It’s much more likely to sustain “serious bodily injury” within the meaning of Florida law. In my opinion, a jury will have a very difficult time deciding, beyond a reasonable doubt, that George’s fear of either death or serious bodily injury was not present, or was unreasonable if present. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4149 "2012-07-19T17:36:27Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > “A controlled stagger on either the left or right leg that causes one to limp in such a way that others will notice him.” > > Here ya go: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwGNfaN5Bqc](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwGNfaN5Bqc) > > I’m not sure if that’s actually Trayvon doing it- couldn’t see their face. I’m glad you posted this, because now I know not to talk anything you say seriously. I’d pit you, but it’s not worth the energy. So you think Trayvon was _fucking dancing?_ If this is a whoosh, it’s not funny. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4150 "2012-07-19T17:42:58Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > OK, so was it “actually” broken? Apparently EMTs don’t have x-ray machines in their truck. Read the PA report. [http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/zimmerman\_bond\_hearing\_exhibits/george\_zimmerman\_medical\_report.pdf](http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/zimmerman_bond_hearing_exhibits/george_zimmerman_medical_report.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4151 "2012-07-19T17:43:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Excellent question. > > First of all – it has happened. On August 16th, 1920, at the Polo Grounds, the Cleveland Naps faced the New York Yankees; New York pitcher Carl Mays threw an outside ball at Naps player Ray Chapman. Chapman was hit in the temple, staggered a few steps, and dropped like a stone. He died twelve hours later. He never regained consciousness. > > So let’s imagine that you do something similar to what you hypothesized above – in Florida, so we’re dealing with the same set of laws. You are at bat, legally armed, and you recall the story of poor Ray Chapman. Instantly, you think to yourself that you should duck, but then recall that in Florida, you have no duty to retreat as long as you’re in a place you’re entitled to be and acting lawfully. > > And you fear for your life - so you shoot the pitcher! > > Under those facts, you have an argument that you are legally exercising self-defense. > > I do foresee a slight problem for you in the real world, though, and that will be convincing a jury that you truly feared for your life. That is, to convict you, the jury must find, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you didn’t fear for your life, OR that your fear was not reasonable. > > In contrast to our current case, in my opinion, a jury is far more likely to find that Zimmerman reasonably feared for his life than to find that Batter Evil reasonably feared for his life. Do you need me to lay out why this is so? Luckily for me this is in Florida, so it never goes before a jury. Hall of Fame, here I come! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4152 "2012-07-19T17:44:05Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > I’m really curious, why do the interview? I guess it could be a way to potentially increase funding for Z’s defense as mentioned. I guess it could be a way of trying the case to all the potential jurors… In a civil context, absent extraordinary circumstances and a very intelligent client, I would strangle my own client before I would allow such an interview. > > Maybe it’s just different in a criminal context. **Bricker** , any thoughts about the rationale behind this? Do you think O’Mara objected to it? That’s an excellent question. I have no idea what motivated O’Mara. I can see several possible good outcomes, among them getting a handle on coverage and public mood, but the downsides are much greater – free discovery for the prosecution, getting locked into yet another set of specifics, and coming off like a clueless douche, thus defeating the good outcomes I mentioned above. If it were my client, I would not allow such an interview unless, as you hint, some truly extraordinary circumstances were in play. So no – there’s nothing in the criminal context that makes this some kind of a hidden brilliant maneuver. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4153 "2012-07-19T17:55:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So no – there’s nothing in the criminal context that makes this some kind of a hidden brilliant maneuver. Or, Zimmerman and O’Mara have been reading threads like this, and are beginning to believe that he is actually going to get away with this. That kind of hubris will prove his undoing. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4154 "2012-07-19T18:03:09Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > I’m glad you posted this, because now I know not to talk anything you say seriously. I’d pit you, but it’s not worth the energy. So you think Trayvon was _fucking dancing?_ If this is a whoosh, it’s not funny. First of all, it _is_ funny. That being said, there is a reason that this dance move is named after something called the “gangster hop/ **skip** ”. I don’t live in PC-land where we are supposed to pretend that large numbers of African American youth don’t emulate aspects of “young urban” culture. It is clear from his twitter accounts, his musical choices, and other aspects of his online presence that young Trayvon Martin did just that. Walking in an exaggerated manner would also be consistent with this and ultimately consistent with Zimmerman’s use of the word “skipping” in describing some of Trayvon’s movements. That being said, Zimmerman may have meant something completely different. I’m simply speculating. You are welcome to label me a racist for pointing out what just about everybody (under the age of 40) already knows, but pretends not to. But I like to keep it real. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4155 "2012-07-19T18:07:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s an excellent question. > > I have no idea what motivated O’Mara. I can see several possible good outcomes, among them getting a handle on coverage and public mood, but the downsides are much greater – free discovery for the prosecution, getting locked into yet another set of specifics, and coming off like a clueless douche, thus defeating the good outcomes I mentioned above. I think the correct question is whether O’Mara could prevent it? I don’t see the slightest indication that O’Mara desired the interview. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4156 "2012-07-19T18:09:48Z")
Was it revealed whether Zimmerman was paid by Fox for the interview? ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4157 "2012-07-19T18:13:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s an excellent question. > > I have no idea what motivated O’Mara. I can see several possible good outcomes, among them getting a handle on coverage and public mood, but the downsides are much greater – free discovery for the prosecution, getting locked into yet another set of specifics, and coming off like a clueless douche, thus defeating the good outcomes I mentioned above. > > If it were my client, I would not allow such an interview unless, as you hint, some truly extraordinary circumstances were in play. > > So no – there’s nothing in the criminal context that makes this some kind of a hidden brilliant maneuver. I read that O’Mara said he wanted to do it to increase the defense fund. – Whatever the case, O’Mara should have sat down with Zimmerman and gone over how to better answer questions. Him being asked if he regretted getting out of the car, etc. was a question they could have counted on. Saying in effect “No, it was God’s will” was a terrible answer. I understand what Zimmerman meant, but the media is going to pretend they don’t and go with the sensationalist headlines. They dropped the ball on an easy question that they should have been more than prepared for. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4158 "2012-07-19T18:14:43Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Was it revealed whether Zimmerman was paid by Fox for the interview? During the interview it was stated by all parties that he was not paid. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4159 "2012-07-19T18:16:15Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > On the first street, he knew an address, but couldn’t think of the street name. On the second street, he knew the name, but didn’t have an address. So it was the address he was looking for. I am quitre aware of those bits. But those bits don’t explain why he would expect to see a street sign in the middle of the block. Have you ever seen a street sign somewhere that there’s not an intersection? > [@emeraldia](#): > > By the way, this entire line of dubiousness is irrelevant anyway. He is allowed to exit his own vehicle and move freely around his own neighborhood for whatever reason he wants to. Of he is allowed to exit his vehicle. That’s not really the point though, is it? The point is that he provides a very dubious reason for exiting his vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4160 "2012-07-19T18:16:40Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Or, Zimmerman and O’Mara have been reading threads like this, and are beginning to believe that he is actually going to get away with this. That kind of hubris will prove his undoing. Why on earth wouldn’t he believe he can “get away” with it? Not that that’s the right phrase, because if his story’s true, he did nothing wrong to “get away” with. That said, if he was trying to get convicted despite the fact he’s probably innocent, this interview would be a good way to go about it. As I’ve said repeatedly, he’s an incredibly stupid man. Stupidity is not, however, illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4161 "2012-07-19T18:17:30Z")
Barbara Walters was going to interview Zimmerman after Fox, but at the last minute, Zimmerman demanded that ABC rent a hotel room for himself and his wife, _for a month._ Walters declined. This morning, live on _The View_, O’Mara called in and offered to do the interview, without the hotel demand. Walters turned him down flat. Good for you Barbara. [http://www.theblaze.com/stories/barbara-walters-was-supposed-to-interview-zimmerman-too-but-cancelled-after-being-appalled-by-his-demands/](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/barbara-walters-was-supposed-to-interview-zimmerman-too-but-cancelled-after-being-appalled-by-his-demands/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=207) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=209)