# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 209
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4162 "2012-07-19T18:22:07Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > I am quitre aware of those bits. But those bits don’t explain why he would expect to see a street sign in the middle of the block. He was not looking for a street sign, but a _house number_ on the street. > [@](#): > > Of he is allowed to exit his vehicle. That’s not really the point though, is it? The point is that he provides a very dubious reason for exiting his vehicle. He exited the vehicle to keep an eye on Trayvon. He’s acknowledged this. After exiting his vehicle he decided it would be a good idea to continue to the next street over (one he knew the name of) and get a house address. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4163 "2012-07-19T18:28:05Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Walters turned him down flat. Good for you Barbara. Barbara Walters is a manipulative, disingenuous witch. That’s how I felt _before_ she decided to take a public cheap shot to embarrass Zimmerman and O’Mara on her crappy show. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4164 "2012-07-19T18:30:06Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > Barbara Walters is a manipulative, disingenuous witch. That’s how I felt _before_ she decided to take a public cheap shot to embarrass Zimmerman and O’Mara on her crappy show. O’Mara called her, sweetheart. And if Walters is manipulative, what would you use to describe someone who demands a hotel room for a month to do an interview? ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4165 "2012-07-19T18:35:37Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > First of all, it _is_ funny. That being said, there is a reason that this dance move is named after something called the “gangster hop/ **skip** ”. Let me suggest that you maintain employment in your current field and not move into comedy. If you have to insist it’s funny… it’s not. I still have no idea of what you think a “gangster-walk” is. > [@](#): > > I don’t live in PC-land where we are supposed to pretend that large numbers of African American youth don’t emulate aspects of “young urban” culture. It is clear from his twitter accounts, his musical choices, and other aspects of his online presence that young Trayvon Martin did just that. Walking in an exaggerated manner would also be consistent with this and ultimately consistent with Zimmerman’s use of the word “skipping” in describing some of Trayvon’s movements. I’m trying to understand your clairvoyant powers from these sources that led you to believe that you know exactly what this alleged “gangster-walk” looks like, and how you are so sure that it is “consistent with Zimmerman’s use of the word ‘skipping.’” > [@](#): > > That being said, Zimmerman may have meant something completely different. I’m simply speculating. Oh - so it’s an assumption? Because earlier you said.. > [@](#): > > I doubt he meant that he was literally skipping. I know what he was saying. Trayvon was doing the fast “gangster-walk” where it kinda looks like skipping. Had you framed it as speculation I could dismiss it as random idiocy, but you “knew what he was saying.” > [@](#): > > You are welcome to label me a racist for pointing out what just about everybody (under the age of 40) already knows, but pretends not to. But I like to keep it real. Very clever. Funny thing is, as a product of an urban environment and being just at age 40, I still don’t know what the fuck you are describing. A gangster stroll? That resembles a shuffle, and isn’t a way to move quickly. As for your self-appelation as a victim of being called a racist… nah, I’m not going to bite. Tell me, do you have a free hand to nail yourself up on that cross? Since you elected to respond to part of my post, I’m going to repost my earlier question, **emeraldia** , and invite you (and others who are so certain of Zimmerman’s innocence) to respond to it. I genuinely am interested in what you would say. > [@me](#): > > Then there’s the perspective from Martin. I know it is probably difficult for some of you to imagine yourself as a 17 year old Black male, but if you could, you would know that groups like the Klan exist. White supremacists have injured, maimed, and killed Black men for fun. Two shitheads were shooting innocent Black people in Tulsa in April, remember? How about that asshole teenager that ran over an innocent Black man in Mississippi a few years ago? James Byrd, anyone? > > So when you are walking down - excuse me, “fast gangster walking” - down the street and you are being followed, without provocation, you are probably not expecting Mister Rogers coming out to say hi. It is not irrational to believe that this person means you harm - you might have tried to hide, but they are coming after you. And of course this isn’t the movies. Someone trying to hurt you might pretend to be friendly, like the Mississippi teenager or the Byrd lynchers. So you might decide to stand your ground and incapacitate someone who might have that intent for you. Because nobody avoiding a confrontation is going to escalate it by leaving the safety of their vehicle. > > Go ahead, consider it for a moment. And let’s not wave away the three incidents of racially targeted violence that have occurred recently (yes, I know that the Tulsa situation was after the shooting, but trust me, there have been many more incidents of Black men being targeted and victimized). I want to hear your mindset. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4166 "2012-07-19T19:55:31Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Apparently EMTs don’t have x-ray machines in their truck. Read the PA report. > > [http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/zimmerman\_bond\_hearing\_exhibits/george\_zimmerman\_medical\_report.pdf](http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/zimmerman_bond_hearing_exhibits/george_zimmerman_medical_report.pdf) **looks around, realizes this still isn’t the Pit** Sigh. I read the PA report already. Apparently a lot closer than you did. > [@](#): > > Broken nose: We discussed that it is \*\*likely \*\*broken, but does not appear to have septal devialion. The swelling and black eyes are typical of this injury. Last time I checked, ‘likely’ wasn’t the same as ‘definitely is’. It’s a doctor’s way of saying, '‘it’s no big deal’. And this little gem from a well-known ultra-proGZ site. Dear god I worry for the future of our species. > [@](#): > > While Zimmerman could try to grab a (clothed?) wrist I doubt that anyone in his position could maintain that wrist hold unless they were significantly stronger than their assailant. He very limited freedom of motion; had movement to the side is very restricted. After a minute of fighting, Zimmerman must be in a bad position. He can delay the inevitable but his strength has got to be almost drained ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4167 "2012-07-19T20:02:33Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > I read that O’Mara said he wanted to do it to increase the defense fund. – Whatever the case, O’Mara should have sat down with Zimmerman and gone over how to better answer questions. Him being asked if he regretted getting out of the car, etc. was a question they could have counted on. Saying in effect “No, it was God’s will” was a terrible answer. I understand what Zimmerman meant, but the media is going to pretend they don’t and go with the sensationalist headlines. They dropped the ball on an easy question that they should have been more than prepared for. Well, at least now he knows what kind of a witness he has to prep. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4168 "2012-07-19T20:06:31Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I think the correct question is whether O’Mara could prevent it? I don’t see the slightest indication that O’Mara desired the interview. O’Mara is not an appointee. He can resign if Zimmerman fails to accede to his guidance. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4169 "2012-07-19T20:14:01Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So, you think it was reasonable for Martin to fear that he was going to be mugged. Since a high percentage of muggings turn bad, it must have been reasonable for Martin to fear for his life. OK, you’ve convinced me; Martin was in fear for his life when he ran from Zimmerman. HAHAHAHA. You were probably convinced that Zimmerman was guilty when you first heard Sharpton say it. I asked if YOU were being mugged in your Red Herring uniform. I haven’t read where anyone suggested that Martin was being mugged. Would you like to start that rumor? Are you suggesting that Martin was so consumed with fear that, instead of heading home, he begame confused and chose to approach Zimmerman? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4170 "2012-07-19T20:24:07Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Are you suggesting that Martin was so consumed with fear that, instead of heading home, he begame confused and chose to approach Zimmerman? Martin never approached Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4171 "2012-07-19T20:37:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Then there’s the perspective from Martin. I know it is probably difficult for some of you to imagine yourself as a 17 year old Black male, but if you could, you would know that groups like the Klan exist. White supremacists have injured, maimed, and killed Black men for fun. Two shitheads were shooting innocent Black people in Tulsa in April, remember? How about that asshole teenager that ran over an innocent Black man in Mississippi a few years ago? James Byrd, anyone? > [@](#): > > So when you are walking down - excuse me, “fast gangster walking” - down the street and you are being followed, without provocation, you are probably not expecting Mister Rogers coming out to say hi. > [@](#): > > It is not irrational to believe that this person means you harm - you might have tried to hide, but they are coming after you. And of course this isn’t the movies. Someone trying to hurt you might pretend to be friendly, like the Mississippi teenager or the Byrd lynchers. So you might decide to stand your ground and incapacitate someone who might have that intent for you. Because nobody avoiding a confrontation is going to escalate it by leaving the safety of their vehicle. > [@](#): > > Go ahead, consider it for a moment. And let’s not wave away the three incidents of racially targeted violence that have occurred recently (yes, I know that the Tulsa situation was after the shooting, but trust me, there have been many more incidents of Black men being targeted and victimized). I want to hear your mindset. You have to admit the examples you provided are _extremely_ rare occurrences in 2012. It would not be a reasonable expectation to assume that George Zimmerman is a Ku Klux Klan member or other militant racist bent on killing you. If this were _fifty years_ ago, maybe. Not in this day and age. Nowadays, there are many times more black people attacking white (or half-white) people than vice versa. By that rationale, do you think white people should pre-emptively attack and incapacitate black people that approach them at night? And even after they don’t hit you back and start screaming for help, to continue to attack them? Of course not. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4172 "2012-07-19T20:40:23Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > > [@Evil Economist](#): > > > > So, you think it was reasonable for Martin to fear that he was going to be mugged. Since a high percentage of muggings turn bad, it must have been reasonable for Martin to fear for his life. OK, you’ve convinced me; Martin was in fear for his life when he ran from Zimmerman. > > HAHAHAHA…I asked if YOU were being mugged in your Red Herring uniform. I haven’t read where anyone suggested that Martin was being mugged. Would you like to start that rumor? Too late; you already started it: > [@doorhinge](#): > > Martin may or may not have been afraid of Zimmerman but there doesn’t appear to be any reason for Martin to have been afraid for his life. Afraid of being robbed or afraid of being mugged but not afraid of being killed. Right now I’m feeling embarrassed for you. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4173 "2012-07-19T20:56:18Z")
[QUOTE=Hippy Hollow] Then there’s the perspective from Martin. I know it is probably difficult for some of you to imagine yourself as a 17 year old Black male, but if you could, you would know that groups like the Klan exist. White supremacists have injured, maimed, and killed Black men for fun. Two shitheads were shooting innocent Black people in Tulsa in April, remember? How about that asshole teenager that ran over an innocent Black man in Mississippi a few years ago? James Byrd, anyone? So when you are walking down - excuse me, “fast gangster walking” - down the street and you are being followed, without provocation, you are probably not expecting Mister Rogers coming out to say hi. It is not irrational to believe that this person means you harm - you might have tried to hide, but they are coming after you. And of course this isn’t the movies. Someone trying to hurt you might pretend to be friendly, like the Mississippi teenager or the Byrd lynchers. So you might decide to stand your ground and incapacitate someone who might have that intent for you. Because nobody avoiding a confrontation is going to escalate it by leaving the safety of their vehicle. Go ahead, consider it for a moment. [/QUOTE] I’m not **emeraldia** , but if you don’t mind, I will take a shot at it. I have no issue with any of your description until you get to this - > [@](#): > > So you might decide to stand your ground and incapacitate someone who might have that intent for you. If Martin decided to incapacitate someone who **might** have bad intentions towards him, then Martin was in the wrong. Even if someone got shot in Tulsa, or in Mississippi fourteen years ago, you don’t get to punch someone in the face and bash his head on the ground because he came up to you in the street. Asking a stranger “what are you doing?” is not a threat, and does not justify a violent response. There is no evidence to date that Zimmerman did anything that a reasonable person would consider violent, or that justified a violent response. There is evidence, mostly the nature of Zimmerman’s injuries and the lack of injury to Martin apart from a skinned knuckle, that indicate that Martin initiated the violence. Whoever initiated the violence in this incident is in the wrong. What evidence there is to date seems to indicate that that person was Martin. It is _possible_ that that person was really Zimmerman. But _there is no evidence of this_. And if there is not sufficient evidence to prove that Zimmerman initiated violence beyond a reasonable doubt, then he must be acquitted. Under our current system, the accused is entitled to the presumption of innocence. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4174 "2012-07-19T21:07:30Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > **Magiver** is quick to lambast a law abiding youth walking home unarmed and even terms him a “thug.” Yet in the same post he reasons that people should leave the job of apprehending bad guys to the police. If GZ felt, inaccurate as he was, that there was a threat in the neighborhood, he should have let the police handle it. Zimmerman did let the police handle it. There is no evidence that he confronted Martin. The evidence at hand is that Martin engaged him first. Martin’s girlfriend’s account backs this up. And Martin wasn’t a thug for walking home, he was a thug for beating Zimmerman with no signs of letting up. It is the very essence of the kind of person described as a thug. > [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > The biggest issue I have with Zimmerman is not his history of lying and the like. It’s his exceedingly poor judgment that has gotten him arrested and otherwise made his life more difficult. All these excuses - it’s dark, he might have ADD, he feared for his life - are not equally applied to the victim Martin. Anyone with a lick of sense would have followed the instructions from the dispatcher and stayed in their car. Furthermore, if you are taking it upon yourself to patrol your neighborhood, you need to know how to work in concert with LEOs. Finally, if you’re going to insert yourself in fucking stupid situations - let’s recap, you identified a potential threat, it’s dark, raining, and you are in relative safety in your car, AND you freely elect to leave your car - you need to have your head examined. Again, there is no evidence that Zimmerman attempted to engage Martin. If that were the case he would have gotten out of his car at the first sighting, or when Martin passed him at the club house, or when he approached the truck near the cut-through. And prior to the beating there was no reason for Zimmerman to fear Martin. At the worst, Martin was a drug addled burglar in the eyes of Zimmerman. > [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > I’m also curious how someone who takes risks like this doesn’t know self defense. I’ve taken a few courses and I know enough to assess the potential threat and do all I can to avoid a confrontation. Which would mean never leaving my car unless absolutely necessary. I can explain it to you if you agree to sign a waiver. Sucker punching someone is how you get the better of them and gain advantage. Getting on top of someone is a huge advantage. > [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > I think GZ picked a fight that he found himself losing, so he pulls out a piece to settle the score. This didn’t take place in GZ’s driveway or near his home. So knowing that he isn’t in immediate physical danger, why insert yourself in a situation? You can think a lot of things but you have no evidence to back it up. If you take Martin at his word then he was at his house earlier. This means that he went out of his way to confront Zimmerman just as he did earlier when he approached the truck. > [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Zimmerman apologists won’t concede that Martin was justified in fearing for his life after being followed, and what it would indicate if the person following you decides to get out of their vehicle in such adverse conditions. I would presume that person intends to harm me, especially if I’m minding my business and not breaking any laws. Martin apologists won’t concede that he went out of his way to confront Zimmerman and that alone indicates he wasn’t in fear for his life. There is no excuse for the continued beating at all. He is dead as a direct result of his treatment of Zimmerman. > [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Bottom line, GZ made all of these shitty judgment calls because he had a get out of jail free card - a gun. He could act first, and when he made a critical error, simply fix it by pulling the trigger. I certainly don’t want anybody who thinks so poorly on the streets defending my property or otherwise. GZ was doing the right thing by calling the police to report suspicious activity. Not only did Martin fail to call the police he chose to go back to the area where Zimmerman was instead of going home. He is the king of shitty judgement calls in this event. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4175 "2012-07-19T21:33:29Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > You have to admit the examples you provided are _extremely_ rare occurrences in 2012. It would not be a reasonable expectation to assume that George Zimmerman is a Ku Klux Klan member or other militant racist bent on killing you. If this were _fifty years_ ago, maybe. Not in this day and age. No, I don’t have to admit that. Child abductions are rare, as are home invasions - but people take considerable precautions regarding both. Including George Zimmerman, who armed himself for the remote possibility he might be attacked. When did these modern day lynchings of Black men occur? James Byrd, Jr.: 1998 James Craig Anderson: 2011 Tulsa murders: 2012 Now if you were not targeted in these acts of violence, maybe they weren’t on your periphery. But I suspect for a Black male the awareness is much greater, wouldn’t you agree? Most people probably don’t know the name Vincent Chin, but if you talk to a group of Asian males, they probably do. > [@](#): > > Nowadays, there are many times more black people attacking white (or half-white) people than vice versa. Cite? I have always read crime stats that indicate Black people are more likely to be the victims of violence by Black people… and the same is true of Whites, as crime tends to be residential. Prove me wrong if the data suggests this. > [@](#): > > By that rationale, do you think white people should pre-emptively attack and incapacitate black people that approach them at night? And even after they don’t hit you back and start screaming for help, to continue to attack them? Of course not. Are you suggesting that Zimmerman’s account is _completely_ factual? I wouldn’t believe Martin’s account completely (if it existed). The truth is invariably somewhere in the middle - and given the Zimmerman record for veracity, I would not be so naive as to accept every aspect of his account as accurate. I’d have that standard for virtually anybody, but especially for Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4176 "2012-07-19T21:46:49Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Cite? I have always read crime stats that indicate Black people are more likely to be the victims of violence by Black people… and the same is true of Whites, as crime tends to be residential. Prove me wrong if the data suggests this. I believe the allegation is that blacks committing crimes against whites is more common than whites committing crimes against blacks. But yes, you are correct that black-on-black crime is much more common that either black-on-white or white-on-black. I can dig up the stats if you like, but let’s be sure what we are discussing first. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4177 "2012-07-19T21:47:55Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Sigh. I read the PA report already. Apparently a lot closer than you did. > > Last time I checked, ‘likely’ wasn’t the same as ‘definitely is’. It’s a doctor’s way of saying, '‘it’s no big deal’. I read exactly the same thing that you did. If you want to disagree with the medical professionals, go ahead, nobody cares. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4178 "2012-07-19T21:54:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > O’Mara is not an appointee. He can resign if Zimmerman fails to accede to his guidance. That is true. That would make O’Mara number three. Right? ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4179 "2012-07-19T21:56:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Zimmerman did let the police handle it. There is no evidence that he confronted Martin. The evidence at hand is that Martin engaged him first. Martin’s girlfriend’s account backs this up. And Martin wasn’t a thug for walking home, he was a thug for beating Zimmerman with no signs of letting up. It is the very essence of the kind of person described as a thug. No evidence George confronted Martin? You mean besides following him in his car, then getting out of his car to follow him on foot? > [@Magiver](#): > > Again, there is no evidence that Zimmerman attempted to engage Martin. If that were the case he would have gotten out of his car at the first sighting, or when Martin passed him at the club house, or when he approached the truck near the cut-through. And prior to the beating there was no reason for Zimmerman to fear Martin. At the worst, Martin was a drug addled burglar in the eyes of Zimmerman. And if Martin wanted to engage George he had ample opportunity to do so. Instead he _ran away_. Are you suggesting that Martin was a mind reader and running was part of his evil master plan since he ‘knew’ George would follow on foot? And when George said Martin has something in his waistband, he was referring to a bag of skittles, right? He’d never mean Martin might have a gun. > [@Magiver](#): > > I can explain it to you if you agree to sign a waiver. Sucker punching someone is how you get the better of them and gain advantage. Getting on top of someone is a huge advantage. Yes, and of course if you want to sucker-punch somebody, the best way to do it is to try and approach from behind, then speak to them while you are still some distance away. You can be sure they’ll look down to get their phone, giving you time to close in, completing the sucker punch. > [@Magiver](#): > > You can think a lot of things but you have no evidence to back it up. If you take Martin at his word then he was at his house earlier. Did Martin come back from the dead to tell us what happened? > [@Magiver](#): > > This means that he went out of his way to confront Zimmerman just as he did earlier when he approached the truck. By ‘went out of his way to approach the truck’ you mean, had to walk by the truck that was stalking him to get to the house he was staying at’. This debate would be a lot more interesting if the GZ supporters had only slightly more intelligence than a brain-dead slug. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4180 "2012-07-19T22:07:03Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > …Did Martin come back from the dead to tell us what happened? > > This debate would be a lot more interesting if the GZ supporters had only slightly more intelligence than a brain-dead slug. Didn’t DeeDee say that Martin told her he was at his house? Do you think she’s lying? What else do you think she’s lying about? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4181 "2012-07-19T22:10:30Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Didn’t DeeDee say that Martin told her he was at his house? No, she did not say Martin said he was at his house. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=208) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=210)