# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 210
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4182 "2012-07-19T22:21:40Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > No evidence George confronted Martin? You mean besides following him in his car, then getting out of his car to follow him on foot? > > And if Martin wanted to engage George he had ample opportunity to do so. Instead he _ran away_. Are you suggesting that Martin was a mind reader and running was part of his evil master plan since he ‘knew’ George would follow on foot? Martin approached Zimmerman/s truck from the back side of the house before he ran away. He went out of his way to do this. This is not something that a person in fear does. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > And when George said Martin has something in his waistband, he was referring to a bag of skittles, right? He’d never mean Martin might have a gun. Could be anything. Imagine what you want. Nothing in Zimmerman’s description of Martin inferred he was in fear of him. Martin was described as appearing messed up on drugs. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Yes, and of course if you want to sucker-punch somebody, the best way to do it is to try and approach from behind, then speak to them while you are still some distance away. You can be sure they’ll look down to get their phone, giving you time to close in, completing the sucker punch. Yes, striking someone when they’re not looking is a sucker punch. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > By ‘went out of his way to approach the truck’ you mean, had to walk by the truck that was stalking him to get to the house he was staying at’. No, it means he approached from the back side of the houses after first walking there. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4183 "2012-07-19T22:24:54Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Too late; you already started it: > > Right now I’m feeling embarrassed for you. Thank you. It’s always nice to know that people care about me. I haven’t read anyone “else” talk about Martin being afraid of being robbed or mugged or killed. Or being afraid of getting bean’d by a baseball. Martin made the choice to run away and then come back to confront Zimmerman. What evidence will be presented in court that Martin could not have approached Zimmerman? What evidence will be presented in court that Martin didn’t punch Zimmerman in the face, breaking his nose? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4184 "2012-07-19T22:26:32Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Martin made the choice to run away and then come back to confront Zimmerman. There is no evidence this happened. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4185 "2012-07-19T22:29:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Martin approached Zimmerman/s truck from the back side of the house before he ran away. He went out of his way to do this. No. This 100% did not happen. It is impossible for this to have happened as George says it did. Not unless Martin has magical insta-teleport powers. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4186 "2012-07-19T22:32:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s an excellent question. > > I have no idea what motivated O’Mara. I can see several possible good outcomes, among them getting a handle on coverage and public mood, but the downsides are much greater – free discovery for the prosecution, getting locked into yet another set of specifics, and coming off like a clueless douche, thus defeating the good outcomes I mentioned above. > > If it were my client, I would not allow such an interview unless, as you hint, some truly extraordinary circumstances were in play. > > So no – there’s nothing in the criminal context that makes this some kind of a hidden brilliant maneuver. I think it’s all GZ. Whatever you think of GZ, he himself doesn’t think of himself as a thug and murderer, and he seems to care a lot about the fact that a good portion of the country does think so, and he hopes that he can convey his true self if he get’s a chance. It’s not like this interview is out of the blue. Zimmerman tried to contact Martin’s parents, and when he was rebuffed, he insisted on speaking at the hearing so that he could apologize to them then. Now this, and then the View. I don’t know what O’Mara thinks of it, but I’m pretty sure Zimmerman is the driving force here. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4187 "2012-07-19T22:34:21Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > There is no evidence this happened. Zimmerman testified this happened. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4188 "2012-07-19T22:35:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > No, she did not say Martin said he was at his house. she said he was next to his house. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4189 "2012-07-19T22:35:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Zimmerman testified this happened. Zimmerman has no way of knowing if Martin doubled back. If he testified to that effect, he is speculating, or lying. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4190 "2012-07-19T22:37:47Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > No. This 100% did not happen. It is impossible for this to have happened as George says it did. Not unless Martin has magical insta-teleport powers. I went over this with you in detail. The timeline most certainly fits. You’re making assumptions you cannot prove. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4191 "2012-07-19T22:39:05Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Zimmerman has no way of knowing if Martin doubled back. If he testified to that effect, he is speculating, or lying. If Martin is standing at the back of the houses it’s not speculation that he got there under his own power. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4192 "2012-07-19T22:39:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If Martin is standing at the back of the houses it’s not speculation that he got there under his own power. It is not evidence that he doubled back. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4193 "2012-07-19T22:48:27Z")
\*\*Magiver \*\* you seem to be taking “near my father’s house” as “I’m standing on the front porch,” or something and not, “I’m back from the 7-11 and in my father’s neighborhood.” I mean, is it your contention that Martin walked completely back to his father’s house and then went back for the show-down at the GZ corral? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4194 "2012-07-19T22:50:55Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > It is not evidence that he doubled back. It is according to Zimmerman’s testimony which has to be disproved. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4195 "2012-07-19T22:53:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It is according to Zimmerman’s testimony which has to be disproved. It is not possible for Zimmerman to know if Martin doubled back. He testified he lost sight of Martin. What Martin did during that time is unknowable by Zimmerman. Zimmerman disproved himself. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4196 "2012-07-19T23:00:13Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > \*\*Magiver \*\* you seem to be taking “near my father’s house” as “I’m standing on the front porch,” or something and not, “I’m back from the 7-11 and in my father’s neighborhood.” > > I mean, is it your contention that Martin walked completely back to his father’s house and then went back for the show-down at the GZ corral? He didn’t say he was near his father’s house according to DeeDee. He said he was NEXT to his father’s house. And yes there will always be interpretation of what he meant but NEXT infers he’s very close. Of course, DeeDee doesn’t strike me as someone who accurately recounts what was heard so I’ll give you some latitude. But when you factor in the time frame then either Martin hid for over two minutes or he was next to his father’s house chose to again walk toward Zimmerman. Either way you have Martin confronting Zimmerman in conversation per both DeeDee and Zimmerman. there was nothing in the conversation that justified his behavior. This is the whole trial. There was nothing in the situation that justified the beating and Zimmerman had no way of knowing when it would stop. This is a critical question that nobody seems to want to answer. when was Martin going to stop? ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4197 "2012-07-19T23:02:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I went over this with you in detail. The timeline most certainly fits. You’re making assumptions you cannot prove. No. It. Does. Not. Seriously, you’re just embarrassing yourself now. There is no way it happened the way George claims it happens in the re-enactment and in the 29 Feb interviews with detectives. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4198 "2012-07-19T23:03:11Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > It is not possible for Zimmerman to know if Martin doubled back. He testified he lost sight of Martin. What Martin did during that time is unknowable by Zimmerman. Zimmerman disproved himself. OK, he loses him behind the house, he see’s him at the corner of the house and he approaches him. What part of “doubling back” are you questioning? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4199 "2012-07-19T23:07:21Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > No. It. Does. Not. Seriously, you’re just embarrassing yourself now. There is no way it happened the way George claims it happens on the NEN call and in the 29 Feb interviews with detectives. That’s simply not true. He starts dialing the phone from club house, Martin has already passed him at this point and he loses sight of him and drives to the cut-through. He again see’s Martin at the corner of the house walking toward him. I went through the math of how long it takes to walk and drive the distance. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4200 "2012-07-19T23:09:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > This is a critical question that nobody seems to want to answer. when was Martin going to stop? When he disarmed Zimmerman and shot him in justifiable self defense. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4201 "2012-07-19T23:12:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > When he disarmed Zimmerman and shot him in justifiable self defense. Cite evidence that Zimmerman threatened him because you’re admitting Martin intended to kill him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=209) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=211)