# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 211
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4202 "2012-07-19T23:17:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Cite evidence that Zimmerman threatened him because you’re admitting Martin intended to kill him. Why do I have to cite evidence for my conjectures, but you get to play fast and loose with unknowable facts, cite-free? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4203 "2012-07-19T23:31:05Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why do I have to cite evidence for my conjectures, but you get to play fast and loose with unknowable facts, cite-free? Because the state has to prove Zimmerman’s account false. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4204 "2012-07-19T23:35:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Because the state has to prove Zimmerman’s account false. Zimmerman’s account doesn’t mean what you say it means. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4205 "2012-07-20T00:03:50Z")
Trayvon Martin was a troubled, young ruffian on suspension prowling the neighborhood at night. Captain George Zimmerman, of the neighborhood watch, was on his way to Target when the young ruffian caught his eye. He knew a trouble-maker when he saw one. Concerned, he notified the authorities. The streetwise young roughneck realized Zimmerman was onto him and he attempted to intimidate him. But George Zimmerman’s would have none of it. Upon realizing that his intimidation had failed, the mischief-maker appeared to flee the vicinity. His duty to protect the neighborhood at the forefront of his mind, a brave George Zimmerman exited his vehicle to keep an eye on him. What he didn’t realize was that this strong-armed rowdy had laid a cunning trap. What happened next chills the blood of any civilized person. A brutish, dastardly attack was unleashed upon an unwitting Zimmerman. A horror I would not wish upon my worst enemy. Struggling for consciousness and for life, his pleas for help gone unanswered, our hero reached for his shooting iron. Several seconds later, and the vicious villain had been dispatched. Zimmerman had saved life and limb, but most important to him, his neighborhood and his inhabitants were no longer in danger. He was nothing less than a hero, but he would not receive a hero’s welcome. Evil forces were at work- and dark-hearted villains of enormous power and influence remained to be dealt with. The battle had just begun. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4206 "2012-07-20T00:05:35Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why do I have to cite evidence for my conjectures, but you get to play fast and loose with unknowable facts, cite-free? Possibly because it sort of matches what happens at trial; it’s not an even playing field at trial. The state has to eliminate all reasonable hypotheses except guilt. In other words, at trial, the defense can throw up ten different, and possibly contradictory, theories of the case. The prosecution has to prove each and every element of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4207 "2012-07-20T00:25:48Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > He was not looking for a street sign, but a _house number_ on the street. George Zimmerman himself said differently. Getting a house number came second. From about 6:24 of this version [Zimmerman Re-enacts Shooting For Police | digtriad.com](http://www.digtriad.com/news/article/233147/57/Zimmerman-Re-enacts-Shooting-For-Police?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Cbc%7Clarge) [INDENT][INDENT]And they said, “Where are you?” And I could _not_ remember the name of the street. Ih’… 'Cause I don’t live on this street. Retreat View Circle goes in a circle. And I said, “I I c.. I don’t know.” And he goes, “We need an address.” And I said, “I don’t know an address.” I think I gave them my address. And they said, aawuhdeh, “Give us directions toeh get to you.” And I said, “If you tell the police to go straight at the clubhouse and make a left, my truck will be there.” And again they asked me where he went and what direction he went in. I said, “I don’t know.” **And then I thought to get out and look for a street sign.** **So I got out of my car** and started walking. Oh. I was ss still on the phone with uh non-emergency and I started walking…down this way. And..wu’it ' **cause I didn’t see a street sign here, but I knew if I went straight through, that that’s Retreat View Circle. And I could give an address**. 'Cause he said, “Just gimme the address of the house that you’re in front of.” And there’s no address 'cause these are the back of the houses.[/INDENT] [/INDENT] ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4208 "2012-07-20T00:30:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Zimmerman testified this happened. no \*reliable \* evidence that it happened ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4209 "2012-07-20T00:32:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Possibly because it sort of matches what happens at trial; it’s not an even playing field at trial. The state has to eliminate all reasonable hypotheses except guilt. In other words, at trial, the defense can throw up ten different, and possibly contradictory, theories of the case. The prosecution has to prove each and every element of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. But I do not have to disprove every unreasonable scenario made by the defense. It is unknowable for Zimmerman to speculate that Martin doubled back; I am under no burden to disprove such unfounded conjecture. That is what Magiver, et al are doing here; conjuring all sorts of unknowable scenarios, and demanding that I disprove them. That is outside the burden on the prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4210 "2012-07-20T00:54:31Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > Trayvon Martin was a troubled, young ruffian on suspension prowling the neighborhood at night. Captain George Zimmerman, of the neighborhood watch, was on his way to Target when the young ruffian caught his eye. He knew a trouble-maker when he saw one. Concerned, he notified the authorities. The streetwise young roughneck realized Zimmerman was onto him and he attempted to intimidate him. But George Zimmerman’s would have none of it. Upon realizing that his intimidation had failed, the mischief-maker appeared to flee the vicinity. His duty to protect the neighborhood at the forefront of his mind, a brave George Zimmerman exited his vehicle to keep an eye on him. What he didn’t realize was that this strong-armed rowdy had laid a cunning trap. What happened next chills the blood of any civilized person. A brutish, dastardly attack was unleashed upon an unwitting Zimmerman. A horror I would not wish upon my worst enemy. Struggling for consciousness and for life, his pleas for help gone unanswered, our hero reached for his shooting iron. Several seconds later, and the vicious villain had been dispatched. Zimmerman had saved life and limb, but most important to him, his neighborhood and his inhabitants were no longer in danger. He was nothing less than a hero, but he would not receive a hero’s welcome. Evil forces were at work- and dark-hearted villains of enormous power and influence remained to be dealt with. The battle had just begun. Quite the bodice-ripper. In your version, does Zimmerman have long flowing locks and rippling chest muscles? ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4211 "2012-07-20T01:00:24Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Quite the bodice-ripper. In your version, does Zimmerman have long flowing locks and rippling chest muscles? More like a Clint Eastwood spaghetti-western look. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4212 "2012-07-20T01:00:59Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Barbara Walters was going to interview Zimmerman after Fox, but at the last minute, Zimmerman demanded that ABC rent a hotel room for himself and his wife, _for a month._ Walters declined. > > This morning, live on _The View_, O’Mara called in and offered to do the interview, without the hotel demand. > > Walters turned him down flat. Good for you Barbara. > > [http://www.theblaze.com/stories/barbara-walters-was-supposed-to-interview-zimmerman-too-but-cancelled-after-being-appalled-by-his-demands/](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/barbara-walters-was-supposed-to-interview-zimmerman-too-but-cancelled-after-being-appalled-by-his-demands/) It just gets better and better. Mr. Zimmerman needn’t worry. He’ll have a free place to stay for way longer than a month. Considering his impulse control problems exhibited over the years, prison will at least keep him out of trouble. No kiddies to fool with there either. 3 hots and a cot. 24 hour supervision. Just what a young hothead needs. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4213 "2012-07-20T01:04:07Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > More like a Clint Eastwood spaghetti-western look. Ah. You go for the rough trade. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4214 "2012-07-20T01:05:09Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Zimmerman on TV last night. > > Notice how he stops and remembers to throw in the ‘mentored kids’ tidbit. Nice touch. > > He says he had never heard of Stand Your Ground, which strikes me as extremely odd and unlikely coming from someone that was taking criminal justice courses and wanted to be a cop or judge. > > Initially, George says that he thought Martin was suspicious because he was just ‘stopped, standing in the rain’ looking at the houses, didn’t appear to be exercising etc. Here, he says that Martin was ‘walking leisurely in the rain’. What I don’t get: Martin was by the short-cut used by dozens of kids every day - I’ll bet some of them are even black! - and it’s right by his buddy’s house, so George would know it was often used as a short-cut. He’s driving by - he couldn’t have possibly had enough time to see that Martin was specifically ‘stopped and starting at the houses’. He clearly had to have _stopped_ at the bend on RVC to watch Martin. No wonder Martin went from ‘walking leisurely in a light rain’ while talking to his girlfriend, to ‘stopping and staring’ at the white bald-headed guy in a truck that’s stopped specifically to stare at Martin. > > This is interesting: > > George thinks Martin was skipping. Skipping. :rolleyes: > > And this little tidbit: > > [COLOR=#000000]So he’s seriously moving up the timeline - obviously trying to get around the ‘you spent two minutes after hanging up trying to find Martin’. I don’t see how this meshes with the other 911 calls at all. > > Says he was punched over a dozen times. Wow. That’s a lot. His face sure looks to be in pretty good shape. > > [/COLOR] > > So, Martin wasn’t able to hit his head on the concrete anymore. He was trying to shut him up, but George’s hands and arms were completely free. And his nose hurt. Obviously, George had no choice but to blow the kid away. > > :rolleyes: > > After the shooting: > > Really? Terrified? The first bystander there - it was literally seconds after the shooting - says that George looked out of breath but otherwise relatively matter-of-fact. He asked if he had blood on his face. Bystander asks him what gun he used to shoot the kid, George answers, “a 9mm” - quite interesting that George never mentions that little conversation. > > The topic of Witness #9 comes up. Neither George nor his lawyer deny the allegations. “She said I wasn’t a racist!”. > > And our little Georgie ‘doesn’t regret anything he did that night’. > > That’s astounding. Suppose that had been me. Even if I had really, actually, truly felt that I absolutely had to shoot to save my life, how the hell could I not regret following him in my car? How could I not regret getting out of my car? How could I not regret the myriad of judgement calls I made, the whole chain of events that I participated in that resulted in me shooting an unarmed kid? > > Trayvon Martin was not a murderous thug hell-bent on raping and pillaging the neighborhood. He was 17yrs old. He was un-armed. To not at least regret not doing something differently that would have resulted in both guys just ending up at home…Zimmerman must honestly believe that he did the right thing by ridding his neighborhood of the hoodie-wearin’, skittles-wieldin’ black thug. > > Or he’s a god-fearin’ psycho of shallow emotional maturity and limited capability for taking personal responsbility, because ‘everything is just God’s will’. > > I understand now why George, once he realized that he was no longer ‘in danger of having his head banged against concrete’, never bothered to check to see if Martin was alive or not. Never checked to see if he needed help. Never made sure 911 was called. In fact, told someone -not- to call 911, instead, please help me restrain this supine, lifeless body that’s not moving in front of us. > > To go on national TV and say he has no regrets? He’s perfectly fine with the chain of events that resulted in a man’s death? He’s worse than pond scum. Pond scum who lies with the practiced ease of the functional sociopath. He’s obviously been making shit up as he goes along the whole time. Like OJ, even if he skips out on this one, he’ll be in trouble with the law again. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4215 "2012-07-20T01:12:58Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > Trayvon Martin was a troubled, young ruffian on suspension prowling the neighborhood at night. Captain George Zimmerman, of the neighborhood watch, was on his way to Target when the young ruffian caught his eye. He knew a trouble-maker when he saw one. Concerned, he notified the authorities. The streetwise young roughneck realized Zimmerman was onto him and he attempted to intimidate him. But George Zimmerman’s would have none of it. Upon realizing that his intimidation had failed, the mischief-maker appeared to flee the vicinity. His duty to protect the neighborhood at the forefront of his mind, a brave George Zimmerman exited his vehicle to keep an eye on him. What he didn’t realize was that this strong-armed rowdy had laid a cunning trap. What happened next chills the blood of any civilized person. A brutish, dastardly attack was unleashed upon an unwitting Zimmerman. A horror I would not wish upon my worst enemy. Struggling for consciousness and for life, his pleas for help gone unanswered, our hero reached for his shooting iron. Several seconds later, and the vicious villain had been dispatched. Zimmerman had saved life and limb, but most important to him, his neighborhood and his inhabitants were no longer in danger. He was nothing less than a hero, but he would not receive a hero’s welcome. Evil forces were at work- and dark-hearted villains of enormous power and influence remained to be dealt with. The battle had just begun. emeraldia? I know this will come as a shock to you, but telenovelas aren’t real. The stories are all made up. Just like yours. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4216 "2012-07-20T01:14:26Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Pond scum who lies with the practiced ease of the functional sociopath. He’s obviously been making shit up as he goes along the whole time. Like OJ, even if he skips out on this one, he’ll be in trouble with the law again. Nah, he’s nothing like OJ. GZ is a law abiding fellow. No criminal record. Don’t attack him or his friends and he’ll leave you be. He’ll stay out of trouble. Though part of me hopes he gets a few more opportunities to defend himself from trash. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4217 "2012-07-20T01:14:41Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Quite the bodice-ripper. In your version, does Zimmerman have long flowing locks and rippling chest muscles? Usually it’s serial killers that get the groupies. Zimmerman’s only murdered one person. Give him time. Give him time. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4218 "2012-07-20T01:16:15Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Ah. You go for the rough trade. Gotcha. You know a lot of words that I have to look up- and upon doing so, find bizarre homosexual references. How do you know about these things? ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4219 "2012-07-20T01:19:34Z")
By the way… just so you all know. I’m a guy. Emerald was taken and I quickly put -ia at the end of it to name it after what I named my city in a game. I didn’t think of it until later that adding -“ia” at the end would make it appear feminine. Too late now… ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4220 "2012-07-20T01:24:30Z")
Now that it has come out that O’Mara and GZ tried to take their one-man act to the View as well as Hannity, anyone else besides me think the defense counsel is trying to self-sabotage? Because this has loony bin written all over it. Every time GZ opens his mouth we get a new version of what happened. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4221 "2012-07-20T04:25:54Z")
emeraldia, re post [4203](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15291601&postcount=4203), this poster [does it better.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14906942&postcount=147) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=210) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=212)