# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 223
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4442 "2012-07-23T21:30:04Z")
I’m inclined to agree that the timeline written in the police report was wrong, and hence the Orlando Sentinel article (based on that report) is also wrong. Business insider has some credibility. And USA Today is a newspaper, though it was written in April. [http://www.usatoday.com/NEWS/usaedition/2012-04-12-trayvon-cover-timeline\_ST\_U.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/NEWS/usaedition/2012-04-12-trayvon-cover-timeline_ST_U.htm) > **[THE TRAYVON MARTIN SHOOTING: A Timeline Of The Entire Case](https://www.businessinsider.com/a-minute-by-minute-timeline-of-everything-thats-known-about-the-trayvon-martingeorge-zimmerman-shooting-2012-6)** ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4443 "2012-07-23T21:52:21Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I said a newspaper and not a blog. This was also published before the timeline was published in the Sentinel. April comes before May in case you aren’t clear. Have you been able to retrieve the link showing “… [police have already stated that some of the times in the event log are **wrong**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15303413#post15303413)” yet? Because I am eager to see it. Time lines are important in these sorts of investigation I have been lead to believe. If the SCSO’s equipment is out of whack it’ll have an impact on more than just this case. It could potentially impact every case in which there are calls to 911/NEN. If there’s reason to think that the time stamps are in error, please share it with the rest of us. Even those of us you have dubbed obdurate may not have our hearts as hardened as Pharaoh’s. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4444 "2012-07-23T21:53:52Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > [http://www.usatoday.com/NEWS/usaedition/2012-04-12-trayvon-cover-timeline\_ST\_U.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/NEWS/usaedition/2012-04-12-trayvon-cover-timeline_ST_U.htm) This link is broked ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4445 "2012-07-23T21:55:29Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Time lines are important in these sorts of investigation I have been lead to believe. I agree. How do we know that the NEN that Z called is set at the exact same time as the 911 log? I’m also dubious about the cell phone logs lining up with the NEN and 911 logs. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4446 "2012-07-23T21:55:35Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > [A Minute-by-Minute Timeline of Everything That's Known About the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman Shooting - Business Insider](http://www.businessinsider.com/a-minute-by-minute-timeline-of-everything-thats-known-about-the-trayvon-martingeorge-zimmerman-shooting-2012-6) This one seems to use Singleton’s timeline instead of the SCSO’s. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4447 "2012-07-23T21:56:46Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > This link is broked It’s working for me. _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4448 "2012-07-23T21:58:18Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > I agree. How do we know that the NEN that Z called is set at the exact same time as the 911 log? We don’t. The calls are apparently handled at the same call center. It’s entirely possible that they have two parallel systems in place for coordinating and consolidating the inputs of the dispatcher and the responding units throughout the city. It’s entirely possible that these two parallel systems have mismatched time stamps. For all I know that may be the case. I suspect though that they just use the same system for it all. Most likely cheaper and less troubleshooting. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4449 "2012-07-23T21:58:40Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > This one seems to use Singleton’s timeline instead of the SCSO’s. Yeah, you’re right. I basically just did a search for “7:09:34” Zimmerman and linked what came up. Must be mentioned in the comments or something. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4450 "2012-07-23T22:00:07Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > It’s working for me. _shrug_ Is there anyway you could c&p the address from your address bar and post that instead? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4451 "2012-07-23T22:19:43Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > I’m also dubious about the cell phone logs lining up with the NEN and 911 logs. You shouldn’t be. Time synchronization is available to anyone with an internet connection. We all synch with the same clocks which are synched with one another. I don’t know for certain that the carriers have synched their networks with any of the time clocks which are readily available. But I think it would be highly unusual if they had not done so. There’s even [a specific network protocol specifically for handling the synchronization of clocks](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Time_Protocol). “In operation since before 1985, NTP is one of the oldest Internet protocols in use.” The synchronization of all these clocks is something which could be accomplished with a trivial amount of effort and what I expect is a matter of SOP. But I can’t show for sure that they are all synched. But, I think that default for these sorts of clocks on networks like the SCSO’s and the phone carriers should be that these networks are synched to the same clocks. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4452 "2012-07-23T22:19:57Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Is there anyway you could c&p the address from your address bar and post that instead? [http://www.usatoday.com/NEWS/usaedition/2012-04-12-trayvon-cover-timeline\_ST\_U.htm?AID=4992781&PID=4169914&SID=1vzyo859gkizn](http://www.usatoday.com/NEWS/usaedition/2012-04-12-trayvon-cover-timeline_ST_U.htm?AID=4992781&PID=4169914&SID=1vzyo859gkizn) Except it uses the 7:11 beginning thing too. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4453 "2012-07-23T22:33:09Z")
This is a cut and paste from some person in the comments section at the conservative tree house that seems interesting: > **[7/20 George Zimmerman Case - Open Discussion Thread - The Last Refuge](https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2012/07/20/720-george-zimmerman-case-open-discussion-thread/)** > > Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case. REMINDER – Please WATCH THE TONE and CONTENT of Commentary. Please be... Regarding timelines; 7:09:34 George Connection Time (4m4s phone call) (Event Report#2012571656) 7:13:41 last entry (Event Report#2012571656) 7:16:11 Possible Connection Time W11 (Media) 7:16:41 Possible Connection Time W3 (Media) 7:16:56 Gunshot 7:17:11 ARV I assume means arrival by Tim Smith (Event Report#2012571656) 7:17:36 PEU (Event Report#2012571656) 7:19:52 PEU (Event Report#2012571656) 7:20:21 REM (Event Report#2012571656) 7:20:30 Connection Time Possibly George calling 911 or just a duplicate report (Event Report), George does look like he is on the phone in the bloody head photo taken on scene by W13. (Event Report #20120571685) SFD Dispatch (284page PDF) 7:20:05 Connection Time 7:21:08 Dispatched Rescue38 7:19:07 ABC Bloody Head Photo Metadata Reported 911 call times [http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Lawyer-Trayvon-Martin-s-girlfriend-heard-altercation/-/1637132/9613958/-/57edqqz/-/index.html](http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Lawyer-Trayvon-Martin-s-girlfriend-heard-altercation/-/1637132/9613958/-/57edqqz/-/index.html) Bloody Head Photo Metadata @2:33 of video > **[George Zimmerman Tells Trayvon Martin's Parents 'I Am Sorry'](https://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-case-exclusive-photo-shows-bloodied-back/story?id=16177849#.UAnPNKOJl8G)** > > In an unexpected move by the defense, George Zimmerman took the stand and apologized to the parents of Trayvon Martin during his bond hearing this afternoon. Media Reported and Crump Upload of Trayvon’s Cell Phone records 7:12:00(:59) – 7:15:01(:59) Page 40/183pdf (Zimmerman Discovery) Event Report #2012571656 7:11:12 Start George Call 7:15:23 End George Call Event Report #2012571669 7:16:43 Connection Time W11 7:17:20 Gunshot Event Report #2012571671 7:17:40 Tim Smith arrives on scene 7:19:43 Tim Smith locates and places George in custody ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4454 "2012-07-24T00:18:40Z")
I don’t get why the source document is being dissed. I also don’t get why **Joel** would lead with some “nuh-uhs” instead of leading with the evidence that the time stamps are incorrect. Here’s the original document again for yoru cross referencing pleasure: [http://i.imgur.com/G9zy5.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/G9zy5.jpg) Here’s some of what I got from a cop back in March when he examined the event log. The call came in to the center at 7:09pm. As evidence at the top of the page 2nd to the last in that PDF file where it says “Connection: 2/26/12 19:09:34” Where it says under that “Created”, this indicates that the information was entered into the system in order for the call to be entered into the calls pending screen. Essentially the event in the computer system was “created”. Note. The description of the subject was given between 1909 and 1911, however the information wasn’t entered until 1911 due to getting information into the computer for the call creation, etc. Note the call details in the lower half of this sheet indicate a time/date stamp, terminal ID, employee number, Radio ID, and a section called CmdID. Under CmdID the term REM refers to remarks added to the call by the call taker. At this point on, all call remarks were entered within seconds of that information being told on the audio, which I recommend one listen to the unedited audio when looking at this call. [eta–Here’s a link [George Zimmerman 911 Call To Stanford Police Department - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj7qEcD8R-8) go ahead and fire it up. We’ll wait. ~PatriotX] At 19:11:17 Officer with a Radio ID of S1312 was dispatched (DIS) At 19:11:59 Zimmerman notes that the subject is running towards the back of the complex During the audio, you can hear the wind through the phone indicating that Zimmerman is running. Note, none of this is entered into the call comments. Error on the calltakers part, this should have been documented. At 19:12:13 Officer S1312 who was dispatched above checks as enroute (ENR). Any number of reasons why the officer wasn’t enroute until a minute after being dispatched, and really nothing to harp on. Coulda been out of his car taking a piss, getting a drink, having computer issues, ANY number of \*\*\*\*. At 19:13:12 Zimmerman tells dispatch to have officers 1056 him at Complex Mailboxes. 10-56 means to meet up with him according to that area’s 10 Codes. Consistent with his statement on the call audio. At 19:13:27 Officer with a radio ID of S2711 is also dispatched to this call. And is shown to be checked enroute within the same minute. AND a REM (remark) is added noting the same. If you care to note the REM is made by someone with a different Radio ID than the actual call taker (Call taker is P1867, the person who added this remark is P1839), this most likely indicates that the DISPATCHER (different person than call taker) receieved radio traffic from S2711 that he would be enroute to the call and added him. Officers do this sometimes and the dispatcher can edit their status (enroute, arrived, dispatched, etc) from their terminal. At 19:13:41 the call taker indicates the COMPL (short for Complainant, which is a term used for the person who called) is now requesting LEO (law enforcement officer) to 1045 (call him) before 1056 (meeting him) which is consistent with the last thing that Zimmerman said before they got off of the phone. With that, it is safe to say that the phone between Zimmerman and 911 ended around 19:13. The call indicates that the next activity was S2711, who we know to be Officer Smith arriving at 19:17:11. The rest of those codes, im not real sure about, like EVM (might mean Event Management) I AM sure that EVD - DUPE indicates that this call in their system was what is considered “Duped” into another call. This usually happens to a call when multiple calls come in regarding the same incident (Duplicate calls). My guess is that this call got “DUPED” into one of the later 911 calls indicating the fight or the shooting, as calls reporting something of a lower priority in connection with something of a higher priority (shooting) are duped into that higher priority incident in the system, if they are dealing with the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4455 "2012-07-24T01:54:06Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > We don’t. The calls are apparently handled at the same call center. > It’s entirely possible that they have two parallel systems in place for coordinating and consolidating the inputs of the dispatcher and the responding units throughout the city. > It’s entirely possible that these two parallel systems have mismatched time stamps. > > For all I know that may be the case. > > I suspect though that they just use the same system for it all. Most likely cheaper and less troubleshooting. I had a similar suspicion. I listened to Zimmerman’s NEN calls and it actually seems to connect to an operator that says, “Sanford Police Department”. The 911 operator says “Police, fire or medical?”. They are probably working in the same call center. I think the big problem is that the call logs depend on manual data entries by the operators. I mean someone has to actually click a button to record the time, so the time records can be off by minutes. We will probably have better numbers when they release Zimmerman’s cell phone records. I don’t think that is accurate to the second either, but the minutes should be right. Of course it would help if some of the 911 callers used cell phone allso. I tried to find out how accurate the time in cell phone records are and the only thing I found out is that there are people who are expert witnesses in cell phone records. My phone appears to be set automatically from the network. It is 4 seconds slow. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4456 "2012-07-24T05:19:34Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I had a similar suspicion. I listened to > I think the big problem is that the call logs depend on manual data entries by the operators. I mean someone has to actually click a button to record the time, so the time records can be off by minutes. ‘Click a button’? **looks around, realizes this still isn’t the pit** Sigh. Call connections and such are recorded automatically. Once the record is created remarks and such are recorded (and the times recorded) automatically. There is no way the time records could be ‘off by minutes’, UNLESS somehow the entire call system’s call recording system was faulty ONLY for George’s NEN call (but not for the 911 calls). Jesus, is it so hard to admit that you were wrong about this? I suppose when you’ve been so wilfully ignorant it is, but come on already. You’re embarrassing yourself. At some point when you’ve dug yourself into a big hole, just drop the shovel. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4457 "2012-07-24T07:22:26Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I think the big problem is that the call logs depend on manual data entries by the operators. I mean someone has to actually click a button to record the time, so the time records can be off by minutes. Cite for the record that time a call connects being dependent on a manual entry, please. Have you been able to retrieve the link showing “… police have already stated that some of the times in the event log are **wrong** ” yet? I would really like to have that link to use elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4458 "2012-07-24T16:27:27Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > And to go back to the flashlight-key thing, it’s weird that in all of his statements–even the Hannity one–he never mentions what he did with those. > > After Martin supposedly approached him and demanded to know if he had a problem, Zimmerman says he reached down to get to his cellphone. He feels arounds in his pockets and stuff and then Martin hits him. > > But in one of his hand, he’s holding his flashlight, right? Did he keep it trained on Martin, did he drop it, did he palm it, did he try to pocket it? Why did he leave the flashlight out of his story completely? > > We could wave this away as him just forgetting, and I wouldn’t have a problem accepting that explanation since it’s not particularly damning on its face. But the problem is that when Zimmerman came up with his excuse for the 2-minute gap, he never acknowledged the existence of that flashlight then either. > > Is anyone else bothered by this? Bumping because as I continue to think about this issue, it makes less and less sense. As already stated, Zimmerman’s working flashlight was found near the T. Zimmerman never acknowledged carrying this flashlight in any of his accounts; he leads us to believe he was enshrouded in darkness once his truck’s headlights clicked off. This is difficult to wave away as mere forgetfulness or sloppy reporting. Either he is trying to deliberately mask the fact that he had a working flashlight, or he’s actually telling the truth: he didn’t have that flashlight on him at the time of his encounter with TM. So how would the keyfob flashlight have turned up at the crime scene? I don’t know. But I see this as another clue of Zimmerman shenanigans. But that’s not bugging me right now. While he points out that he was carrying a broken flashlight, did he ever explain what he was doing with it immediately prior to Martin punching him? Was it in his hand? If so, and if we accept the idea that he was also using the working flashlight, this would mean he was carrying two flashlights in his hands. So how did one end up at the T and the other coincidentally wind up where the kid was shot? And how did these details completely get overlooked in Zimmerman’s narrative, and continue to remain unaddressed? When he talked about reaching for his cellphone immediately before the sucker punch, he never mentioned having anything in his hands. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4459 "2012-07-24T18:05:39Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > ‘Click a button’? > > **looks around, realizes this still isn’t the pit** > > Sigh. Call connections and such are recorded automatically. Once the record is created remarks and such are recorded (and the times recorded) automatically. There is no way the time records could be ‘off by minutes’, UNLESS somehow the entire call system’s call recording system was faulty ONLY for George’s NEN call (but not for the 911 calls). > > Jesus, is it so hard to admit that you were wrong about this? I suppose when you’ve been so wilfully ignorant it is, but come on already. You’re embarrassing yourself. At some point when you’ve dug yourself into a big hole, just drop the shovel. Because the SPD has already **admitted** that the system is wrong. The report you treat as gospel reports 19:09:34. > [@](#): > > \*1911:12 - Call received from George Zimmerman reporting suspicious person > \*The Seminole County Sheriff’s Office, which handled the call, reported it came in at 1909:34. Orlando Sentinel May 21st Actually they are saying the time reported byThe Seminole County Sheriff’s Office is wrong. I suspect that correcting the time using phone company records is fairly routine in cases where exact time is needed. If you are so confident. Why don’t we bet on it?The loser will no longer post in this thread. The records you say are gospel said the call disconnected 19:13:27. The records I use say 19:15:23. If you split the difference then the time is 19:14:25. When Zimmerman’s cell phone records are published, if the call was disconnected before 19:14:25, then you win. If it is after 19:14:25 I win. If they only publish the time to the minute, then you win 19:13 and I win 19:15 and 19:14 is a push. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4460 "2012-07-24T18:13:30Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > As already stated, Zimmerman’s working flashlight was found near the T. Zimmerman never acknowledged carrying this flashlight in any of his accounts; he leads us to believe he was enshrouded in darkness once his truck’s headlights clicked off. This is difficult to wave away as mere forgetfulness or sloppy reporting. Either he is trying to deliberately mask the fact that he had a working flashlight, or he’s actually telling the truth: he didn’t have that flashlight on him at the time of his encounter with TM. So how would the keyfob flashlight have turned up at the crime scene? I don’t know. But I see this as another clue of Zimmerman shenanigans. > > But that’s not bugging me right now. While he points out that he was carrying a broken flashlight, did he ever explain what he was doing with it immediately prior to Martin punching him? Was it in his hand? If so, and if we accept the idea that he was also using the working flashlight, this would mean he was carrying two flashlights in his hands. So how did one end up at the T and the other coincidentally wind up where the kid was shot? And how did these details completely get overlooked in Zimmerman’s narrative, and continue to remain unaddressed? > > When he talked about reaching for his cellphone immediately before the sucker punch, he never mentioned having anything in his hands. He was relaying to them the gist of what happened. Martin confronts him, he reaches to get his cell phone, and bam. They struggle. He hits his head against the concrete. He tries to silence him from screaming at one point. He thinks he’s reaching for his gun and he shoots him. He isn’t accurate in where he has the final event occurring. Again, understandable- and beyond that, absolutely no reason to lie about where it ended up since this was indisputable fact known to the police. He didn’t talk about his keys and flashlight. They didn’t play an important role in the event. I don’t recall him being asked specifically about his flashlight either by the police. Once again though.. how would it benefit Zimmerman to intentionally omit what happened with his flashlight? In fact, it would have been better for him to mention- yeah, I had my keys in one hand and when he hit me I dropped my keys with the flashlight on it right by the T, since it supports the notion he was at the “T” (and perhaps the police lost track of where his keys actually were in the crime scene.) ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4461 "2012-07-24T18:16:03Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > If you are so confident. Why don’t we bet on it?The loser will no longer post in this thread. > > The records you say are gospel said the call disconnected 19:13:27. The records I use say 19:15:23. If you split the difference then the time is 19:14:25. > > When Zimmerman’s cell phone records are published, if the call was disconnected before 19:14:25, then you win. If it is after 19:14:25 I win. If they only publish the time to the minute, then you win 19:13 and I win 19:15 and 19:14 is a push. The stakes get higher. This is the message board equivalent of a duel. Will he accept? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=222) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=224)