# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 225
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4482 "2012-07-25T02:32:40Z")
From here page 46 > **[george-zimmerrman-911-call-history.pdf](https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/327330/george-zimmerrman-911-call-history.pdf)** > > 2.74 MB If the call started @ 19:11:12 and the note “SUBJ NOW RUNNING TOWARDS BACK ENTRANCE OF COMPLEX” has a time stamp of 19:11:59, that means that GZ told the call taker that TM was running toward the back entrance BEFORE 47 seconds into the call. Here is the call. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/zj7qEcD8R-8/hqdefault.jpg "George Zimmerman 911 Call To Stanford Police Department") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj7qEcD8R-8) **Does GZ tell the call taker that TM is running toward the back entrance 47 seconds into the call?** Or does GZ tell the call-taker that TM is running closer to 2 minutes into the call? **Try and line up the call log with the recording of the call.** Give it a go. See how that works out for you. I find that the time stamps are in accord with the recording of the call if we allow that the call connected @ the time the SCSO says it did. They are not in accord with the actual recording of the call if we say that the call starts @ 9:11. YMMV, but it shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4483 "2012-07-25T02:34:32Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I’ll go listen to the audio recording and check Singleton’s time entries. Please do. I have provided you a link to a copy of the event report and a link to a copy of the call. > [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > If DragonAsh doesn’t take my bet, would you like to take his place? No. I don’t want you to leave. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4484 "2012-07-25T02:43:34Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I’ll go listen to the audio recording and check Singleton’s time entries. What does that prove? You need to listen to the recording while examining the **original document** , not teh SPD report created from that document. If SPD started with the wrong time and then add time to it, you won’t be able to tell by comparing the audio to their report. You’ll only be able to tell if they did their addition correctly. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4485 "2012-07-25T03:05:26Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > What does that prove? > You need to listen to the recording while examining the **original document** , not teh SPD report created from that document. > > If SPD started with the wrong time and then add time to it, you won’t be able to tell by comparing the audio to their report. > > You’ll only be able to tell if they did their addition correctly. So does that mean you will take my bet? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4486 "2012-07-25T05:17:01Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > So does that mean you will take my bet? 01 > [@PatriotX](#): > > No. I don’t want you to leave. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4487 "2012-07-25T06:00:31Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Look at the link that emeraldia posted: > Actually, it looks to me like they use the creation time of 19:11:12 and the rest of the times are derived from the audio recording. Apparently the discrepancy just means that Zimmerman spent one minute and 38 seconds on hold. So - you now claim George was on hold for 98 seconds before he started talking to the dispatcher. You do know George’s call lasted four minutes, right? So how does the call record go from the start of the call to ‘call George when you get to the complex’ in only two minutes? In addition to the ‘he’s running’ timing, we also have the end of the call: at 19:13:12, the dispatcher enters ‘will meet at mailboxes’. At 19:13:41, he enters ‘wants officers to call when they get to the complex’. This perfectly matches the end of George’s call, and it comes approx. two minutes after ‘he’s running’. Again, perfectly matched up with the timing of the NEN call. How about the loser writes a 500 word essay in IMHO extolling the many excellent virtues and qualities of the winner while acknowledging how wrong they were on this. Or you can just acknowledge now that you are wrong right here. ---
**Author:** ![cordylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@cordylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cordylus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4488 "2012-07-25T06:58:20Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I’m unemployed. I can’t bet cash. Accept my original bet or admit you don’t really believe what you are posting. It’s called a raise son… a raise. You either bet or you fold. If you’re so sure of your position then you risk nothing. Real men don’t make excuses. Or as my Dad used to say “you put your money where your mouth is.” Now I’m not saying you have to go to bed tonight believing that you’re the chump but everyone reading this thread knows who the chump is. At the very least have the grace to shut up about it. It’s getting really tiresome. Regards, Cordy PS: Evil Economist - You are my new internet hero. I didn’t have the stones to say what you’ve said but I agree 100%. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4489 "2012-07-25T08:16:06Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > How about the loser writes a 500 word essay in IMHO extolling the many excellent virtues and qualities of the winner while acknowledging how wrong they were on this. > > Or you can just acknowledge now that you are wrong right here. And since you’re conveniently (as it were) unemployed, I’ll give you a 90% discount: If I lose, in addition to the IMHO 500-word essay, I’ll donate $100 to my favorite charity. If you lose, the essay and a $10 donation to a charity of your choice. Either put up or shut up. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4490 "2012-07-25T09:14:36Z")
Or you can just stop posting in this thread. We’ll take that as your admission that you were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4491 "2012-07-25T15:04:54Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > And since you’re conveniently (as it were) unemployed, I’ll give you a 90% discount: If I lose, in addition to the IMHO 500-word essay, I’ll donate $100 to my favorite charity. If you lose, the essay and a $10 donation to a charity of your choice. > > Either put up or shut up. You have proven that you are a sophist who posts arguments he doesn’t believe and resorts to personal abuse when someone contradicts him. Take my bet. I was first. You offer to give $100 to **your** favorite charity if you lose? . If you actually believe your argument you will take my bet. The purpose of my bet is to make you go away, but apparently those stakes are too high for you. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4492 "2012-07-25T15:13:23Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > You have proven that you are a sophist who posts arguments he doesn’t believe and resorts to personal abuse when someone contradicts him. > > Take my bet. I was first. You offer to give $100 to **your** favorite charity if you lose? . If you actually believe your argument you will take my bet. The purpose of my bet is to make you go away, but apparently those stakes are too high for you. Yeah, that’s what I thought. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4493 "2012-07-25T15:22:15Z")
> [@cordylus](#): > > It’s called a raise son… a raise. You either bet or you fold. If you’re so sure of your position then you risk nothing. Real men don’t make excuses. Or as my Dad used to say “you put your money where your mouth is.” Now I’m not saying you have to go to bed tonight believing that you’re the chump but everyone reading this thread knows who the chump is. At the very least have the grace to shut up about it. It’s getting really tiresome.. No raising the stakes would be to say that the loser no longer posts on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4494 "2012-07-25T15:30:01Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > For the same reason they lied about Trayvon’s record at school, including the _actual_ reasons for his suspensions. The same reason they sealed all of his records. The same reason that Tracy Martin withdrew his denial that the screams weren’t his sons and then decided it was his son’s voice screaming. The same reason Sybrina Fulton withdrew her statement about it being an ‘accident’ that ‘got out of hand’ and then decided Zimmerman ‘murdered my son’. The same reason that they found a reason to be ‘outraged’ each time Zimmerman has expressed regret about the death of their son. > > I had some degree of respect for Trayvon’s parents in the beginning, but have since grown a bit cynical about their motivations. I won’t say they are in it for the money, but they are letting those that are in it for the money, run the show for them. (i.e., Crump) I am convinced you are a Zimmerman relative. You seem to harbor not only a Panglossian view of Zimmerman as some kind of new messiah (witness your earlier lyrical description of hero Zimmerman ridding the world of a miscreant), but now you are taking shots at a grieving family. In all seriousness, if you haven’t walked a mile in their shoes, STFU. Maybe the picture that they gave to the media was their favorite picture of him. What do his school suspensions have to do with anything whatsoever? I would wager many more of us have been disciplined at school than been arrested for assaulting a police officer or domestic violence (which of course, you waved away as insignificant). This isn’t the Pit… so… I think the world gives less than a rat’s ass about the level of respect you have for the Martins. When you experience the loss of a loved one for no rational reason (fine, you accept the bullshit that poor GZ was in fear for his life, but what do you think any parent would make of that?) come back and let us know. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4495 "2012-07-25T15:55:58Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > No raising the stakes would be to say that the loser no longer posts on the SDMB. I don’t want you to no longer post on SDMB. I want you to have to publically acknowledge how horribly, terribly, undeniably wrong you were. I want you to keep on posting so we can continue to point and laugh. But you’re obviously too much of a chickenshit to back up your own statement. Going forward we’ll give your posts all the attention they deserve, which is a bit less than the square root of eff all. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4496 "2012-07-25T15:59:36Z")
I don’t necessarily want **Joel** to stop posting. It would fabulous if he’d stop posting about a dead issue, though. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4497 "2012-07-25T17:33:59Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > …Maybe the picture that they gave to the media was their favorite picture of him. What do his school suspensions have to do with anything whatsoever? I would wager many more of us have been disciplined at school than been arrested for assaulting a police officer or domestic violence (which of course, you waved away as insignificant). > > This isn’t the Pit… so… I think the world gives less than a rat’s ass about the level of respect you have for the Martins. When you experience the loss of a loved one for no rational reason (fine, you accept the bullshit that poor GZ was in fear for his life, but what do you think any parent would make of that?) come back and let us know. The media probably found the early pictures from yearbooks and public records. Much of what was published early on was based on speculation and inuendo. The lynch mob media knew better than to try a criminal case in public but they wanted to sell advertisment and draw viewers. Being first was more important than being correct. They even resorted to manipulating audio and visual recordings to deliberately distort the situation. They still refer to Martin as having “iced tea” instead of a watermellon drink which is a really simple issue and they can’t get that correct??? Lynch mob leaders like the NBP party demanded that Zimmerman be kidnapped and murdered. No trial or evidence required. NBC/MSNBC even allowed their spokesmodel Sharpton to “make” the news instead of “reporting” it. Martin is dead and Zimmerman is on trial for 2nd degree murder. Can the prosecutor prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman wasn’t in fear for his life? Especially after being beaten by Martin and after calling out to his neighbors for help. Can the prosecutor prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman, according to Florida law, is guilty of 2nd murder? ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4498 "2012-07-25T17:47:28Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The media probably found the early pictures from yearbooks and public records. Much of what was published early on was based on speculation and inuendo. The lynch mob media knew better than to try a criminal case in public but they wanted to sell advertisment and draw viewers. Being first was more important than being correct. They even resorted to manipulating audio and visual recordings to deliberately distort the situation. They still refer to Martin as having “iced tea” instead of a watermellon drink which is a really simple issue and they can’t get that correct??? > > Lynch mob leaders like the NBP party demanded that Zimmerman be kidnapped and murdered. No trial or evidence required. NBC/MSNBC even allowed their spokesmodel Sharpton to “make” the news instead of “reporting” it. > > Martin is dead and Zimmerman is on trial for 2nd degree murder. Can the prosecutor prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman wasn’t in fear for his life? Especially after being beaten by Martin and after calling out to his neighbors for help. Can the prosecutor prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman, according to Florida law, is guilty of 2nd murder? The only reason I can think of for Corey to claim 2nd degree murder. is to get Zimmerman to agree to aa plea bargain of manslaughter. But that’s just my opinion. There’s nothing in Zimmerman’s background to prove a depraved mind, or even during that evening. Zimmerman, who may not be rocket scientist, may have panicked that evening, but that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4499 "2012-07-25T18:05:59Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Yeah, that’s what I thought. I think you are upset that I made the same point over in Talkleft and a lot of people are agreeing with me and you can’t spread your bile over there. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4500 "2012-07-25T18:11:50Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > The only reason I can think of for Corey to claim 2nd degree murder. is to get Zimmerman to agree to aa plea bargain of manslaughter. But that’s just my opinion. That’s my opinion also. Considering the publicity surrounding this case and the public speculation, half-truths, and out right lies that have been circulated, trying to find an impartial jury will be next to impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4501 "2012-07-25T18:32:01Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > They still refer to Martin as having “iced tea” instead of a watermellon drink which is a really simple issue and they can’t get that correct??? Maybe they were over-reacting to the association between black people and watermelon. > [@](#): > > NBC/MSNBC even allowed their spokesmodel Sharpton to “make” the news instead of “reporting” it. NBC edited the 911 call from Zimmerman to make him sound racist. They have been trying to recast this story into “innocent black child murdered by white racist” right from the get-go. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=224) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=226)