# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 228
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4542 "2012-07-26T19:30:02Z")
What an odd thread. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4543 "2012-07-26T21:01:15Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Because it’s an indisputable fact. Are the facts important? Who decides which facts are not important? If the LSM and bloggesphere can’t get the simple facts correct, how can I expect them to present the technical issues correctly? Sane people who aren’t “unhinged” decide that the flavor of beverage a kid bought before he was killed is an unimportant fact. People who continually obsess about it, and rant about how “the LSM and bloggesphere” simply reported the information police initially released, should consider therapy. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4544 "2012-07-26T21:25:21Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > The behaviour that he considered “suspicuous” is explained by Martin being on a hands-free call. That’s a fact. What hands-free phone was Martin using? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4545 "2012-07-26T21:26:50Z")
Sheesh! Please don’t get this thread closed too. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4546 "2012-07-26T21:38:32Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Why do you consider this fact relevant or worthy of even mentioning? > > …You’ve brought up this total non-issue so many times, now that you continue to make a point of it, could you please explain to us why you think it’s worthy of note? > [@voltaire](#): > > Sane people who aren’t “unhinged” decide that the flavor of beverage a kid bought before he was killed is an unimportant fact. People who continually obsess about it, and rant about how “the LSM and bloggesphere” simply reported the information police initially released, should consider therapy. Hahahaha. You asked a question and I answered it. Apparently you object to factual information being a part of this discussion. Are there any other facts you object to? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4547 "2012-07-26T21:50:01Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. You asked a question and I answered it. You responded to it. You did not answer it. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4548 "2012-07-26T21:51:06Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Sheesh! > > Please don’t get this thread closed too. Why don’t you suggest that DragonAsh be less abusive to people who disagree with him? I notice he manages to mind his manners over in talkleft. Jeralyn doesn’t hesitate to ban posters who don’t mind their manners. BTW, the Zimmerman forum is great over there. Somebody actually did the math and figured out the crime scene diagram. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4549 "2012-07-26T22:14:48Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Why don’t you suggest that DragonAsh be less abusive to people who disagree with him? My post is a glass slipper. If it fits anyone’s foot, they’re welcome to wear it. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4550 "2012-07-26T22:21:13Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > You responded to it. You did not answer it. Hahahaha. Are there any other facts you object to? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4551 "2012-07-27T00:50:59Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. Are there any other facts you object to? I never objected to any facts. I only questioned the motives of someone who continually brings up completely irrelevant facts as if they had some great significance. And though you never directly answered the question, the offhand references in your response did provide some useful insight into your thought process. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4552 "2012-07-27T01:02:00Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > The behaviour that he considered “suspicuous” is explained by Martin being on a hands-free call. So he could devote both of his hands to pummeling. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4553 "2012-07-27T04:29:50Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > I never objected to any facts. I only questioned the motives of someone who continually brings up completely irrelevant facts as if they had some great significance. > > And though you never directly answered the question, the offhand references in your response did provide some useful insight into your thought process. > > Thanks! You’re welcome. I’m sure your useful insight will be a welcome addition but it doesn’t change the facts. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4554 "2012-07-27T21:44:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, it’s an opinion, as in “it is your opinion that Martin wandering around the neighborhood looking into houses is what someone on a hands-free call would do” just like “it was Zimmerman’s opinion that a stranger wandering around the neighborhood looking into houses is suspicious activity”. > > Regards, > Shodan Not even Zimmerman reported that Martin was looking “into” houses. His original words were that Martin was “looking at all the houses,” an activity that I myself engage in every time I go for a walk. If Zimmerman or someone else testified that Martin was inching along walls peering into windows, yeah, I’d consider that suspicious, but again, not even Zimmerman has (yet) made that claim. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4555 "2012-07-27T22:30:11Z")
There is one witness who will testify seeing the shooting from her window. She gave an interview last night on CNN. You can see it here: [http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/video-eyewitness-to-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-speaks-out/](http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/video-eyewitness-to-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-speaks-out/) Here statement not only is damning to Zimmerman. It’s damning to Serino and the rest of the SPD. If its true (and I have no reason to doubt that it is) it is further evidence this police department is both sloppy and dirty. ETA this interview aired in April, my bad. It just must have missed me. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4556 "2012-07-27T22:47:18Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Her statement not only is damning to Zimmerman. It’s damning to Serino and the rest of the SPD. If its true (and I have no reason to doubt that it is) it is further evidence this police department is both sloppy and dirty. The biggest problem is that her claim doesn’t make sense. If Zimmerman were on top when the gunshot went off, then why was he face up? She doesn’t describe seeing anyone move any bodies around. She continues to call him “the boy”. Sounds like another witness whose account was corrupted by the media coverage. It’s definitely not ‘damning’ to anyone. Plus, she’s one of those crazy she-male types, you can tell from the voice ;p ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4557 "2012-07-27T22:57:15Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > ETA this interview aired in April, my bad. It just must have missed me. … and that interview adds nothing that is not known already. And no, she didn’t “witness the shooting”. All of the witnesses’ testimony - ALL of it - has been made public already. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4558 "2012-07-28T01:02:45Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > The biggest problem is that her claim doesn’t make sense. If Zimmerman were on top when the gunshot went off, then why was he face up? If what she says is true, then the simplest explanation is that Z flipped the kid over. That is within reason, because Zimmerman was seen on top of Martin immediately after the shooting by multiple witnesses. > [@](#): > > She doesn’t describe seeing anyone move any bodies around. She continues to call him “the boy”. Sounds like another witness whose account was corrupted by the media coverage. Why is this damning against her credibility? She calls him the boy because the voice she heard sounded youthful, like a boy’s. If she called him a man instead, what would be your reaction? ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4559 "2012-07-28T01:19:39Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If what she says is true, then the simplest explanation is that Z flipped the kid over. That is within reason, because Zimmerman was seen on top of Martin immediately after the shooting by multiple witnesses. What wasn’t seen was him flipping the body over. > [@](#): > > Why is this damning against her credibility? She calls him the boy because the voice she heard sounded youthful, like a boy’s. Because he was 17 years old and not a ‘boy’. I didn’t say it was damning, but it indicates that the media influenced things. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4560 "2012-07-28T01:57:45Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > Because he was 17 years old and not a ‘boy’. I didn’t say it was damning, but it indicates that the media influenced things. Your conclusion still doesn’t follow. The “media” has portrayed Martin as a 17 year old teenager dressed in a hoodie, not a “young boy” which is what she says she heard. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4561 "2012-07-28T02:08:30Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Your conclusion still doesn’t follow. The “media” has portrayed Martin as a 17 year old teenager dressed in a hoodie, not a “young boy” which is what she says she heard. Really? Would you like a few hundred links to an angelic-looking 12-year-old Trayvon pictures in the media? Contrasted with a fatter-than-today booking photo of Zimmerman? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=227) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=229)