# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 235
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4682 "2012-08-01T21:10:22Z")
Judge refuses to step down. Seems like a bad decision to me. If this case ever goes to appeals then it could be a factor. This judge obviously was/is pissed over the bail bond fiasco and that could make him biased in the trial. Assigning a new judge is a routine administrative matter. Why risk a trial that could get overturned? Step aside and let a new judge take over. [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083\_162-57484246-504083/trayvon-martin-case-judge-presiding-over-george-zimmerman-trial-will-not-step-down/](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57484246-504083/trayvon-martin-case-judge-presiding-over-george-zimmerman-trial-will-not-step-down/) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4683 "2012-08-01T21:12:46Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > So Zimmerman was following Martin, until he lost him. Then he went \*hunting \*for him. > > How else did he manage to find himself so far away from his truck, behind the houses, where there were no addresses for him to see if he hadn’t walked back there looking for one of the assholes who always get away? Concisely, Zimmerman complained “These assholes always get away,” at 7:11. Two minutes later, dispatch advised him to stop actually running after Martin. Two minutes after _that_, Zimmerman declined to meet police at the mailboxes, asking that the police call when they arrive, so he could let them know where he’d be. Two minutes after _that_, Martin was shot in the heart. The level of willful pretense required to claim that Zimmerman was a passive victim in this is staggering. Only _ **four minutes** _ elapsed between the time he was running after someone he worried might “get away” and the moment he pulled the trigger. Martin was heard to say “Get off!” early on in the struggle, and Zimmerman has provided a narrative that is ludicrously implausible. It seems fairly obvious that in those two minutes Zimmerman chased after Martin and laid ahold of him - unless you have some emotional or political reason for treating his statements as gospel and ignoring everything that casts doubt on them. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4684 "2012-08-01T21:37:55Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > So Zimmerman was following Martin, until he lost him. Then he went \*hunting \*for him. There is evidence that he was following him, and evidence that he lost him and was no longer following him. There is no evidence that Zimmerman was hunting him. > [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Martin was heard to say “Get off!” early on in the struggle… AFAIK, we have only DeeDee’s word for this, some time after the fact. Since her call was not recorded, we cannot establish what was said with any certainty, especially not that it was Martin speaking. > [@](#): > > Zimmerman has provided a narrative that is ludicrously implausible. Many of the major elements of his story are backed up by evidence, as has been demonstrated. > [@](#): > > It seems fairly obvious that in those two minutes Zimmerman chased after Martin and laid ahold of him - unless you have some emotional or political reason for treating his statements as gospel and ignoring everything that casts doubt on them. Actually my reason for not accepting this account is that it has very little to back it up. We don’t know who, if anyone, said “get off of me” and given the injuries to Zimmerman, and the witness statement who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, it is unlikely to have been Zimmerman. Likewise your timeline does nothing to establish that Zimmerman was chasing anyone. It is just as possible for Martin to have doubled back and attacked in two minutes as for Zimmerman to have attacked Martin. And since there is no real evidence that Zimmerman attacked Martin, and there is evidence that Martin attacked Zimmerman, your attempt at well-poisoning is not particularly effective. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4685 "2012-08-01T22:15:50Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I think it’s so implausible that it might as well be impossible, **Bricker**. But don’t let my beliefs stop you from dazzling us with more deer shootin’ anecdotes and publications from the 19th century. You and **Terr** are currently running neck and neck in the I’ll Make Myself Look Real Stupid and Desperate by Citing Complete Crap contest. yep. FBI studies are crap. you know better than them ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4686 "2012-08-01T22:26:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > There is evidence that he was following him, and evidence that he lost him and was no longer following him. There is no evidence that Zimmerman was hunting him. From what I remember from the 911 calls, Zimmerman is sitting in his truck when he says something like, “he’s running now,” after which he gets out of his truck to follow Martin. I believe it was less than a minute later when the dispatcher tells him, “we don’t need you to [follow him].” Zimmerman says, “okay.” At that point, he wouldn’t have been in back of the houses. So if he wasn’t still following Martin, why else did he end up behind the house? Because he was looking for him. The shit hit the fan behind the houses, minutes later. What’s that, he left the street to walk behind the houses to check for an address? Riiiiight, makes perfect sense. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4687 "2012-08-01T22:32:43Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > That makes no sense to me. So if there’s a video of Bob executing Frank but there’s also Bob himself saying, “Wasn’t me. I was in Cleveland at the time,” then he’s acquitted? > > Yes, I know, hyperbole, but really … a little clarity on that concept would be appreciated. No. Because you left out a step. Or perhaps i did. The jury is the finder of fact. They can choose to believe or disbelieve any of the evidence they see or hear. (They cannot, however, believe something for which there is no evidence at all). The reasonable hypothesis left over only exists if the jury believes Bob. But – if the jury believes Bob, then, yes, he’s acquitted. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4688 "2012-08-01T22:35:17Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > I am sure that book was the cutting edge of medical research in 1895, but perhaps we could keep our cites a little more recent. And hunting stories only count if the animal was autopsied by a medical professional, not just field dressed and eaten. Why is that restriction in place? I’m not a medical professional but I know what a deer heart is. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4689 "2012-08-01T22:39:01Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Judge refuses to step down. Seems like a bad decision to me. If this case ever goes to appeals then it could be a factor. This judge obviously was/is pissed over the bail bond fiasco and that could make him biased in the trial. > > Assigning a new judge is a routine administrative matter. Why risk a trial that could get overturned? Step aside and let a new judge take over. > [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083\_162-57484246-504083/trayvon-martin-case-judge-presiding-over-george-zimmerman-trial-will-not-step-down/](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57484246-504083/trayvon-martin-case-judge-presiding-over-george-zimmerman-trial-will-not-step-down/) I don’t agree. On appeal, there is no way this record would justify recusal. If the judge makes biased rulings during trial, then of course those rulings can be appealed. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4690 "2012-08-01T22:48:11Z")
> [@Shot through the heart, is death instantaneous?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-through-the-heart-is-death-instantaneous/531511/3): > > The brain has about 4 minutes of oxygen, so no, a heart shot isn’t instant death\*. In fact, depending where the heart is injured, it’s remotely possible to survive. That would only be if sophicated medical care was immediately at hand. > > \*I have sad personal knowledge of this. My grandfather shot himself in the heart. I was the first to reach him. He was able to say my name before he died. This post was made two years ago – before the Zimmerman shooting happened. In other words, the poster has no motive to support either Zimmerman or Martin. Is the poster lying? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4691 "2012-08-01T22:51:04Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > I am sure that book was the cutting edge of medical research in 1895, but perhaps we could keep our cites a little more recent. And hunting stories only count if the animal was autopsied by a medical professional, not just field dressed and eaten. [Ok:](http://www.amazon.com/Gunshot-Wounds-Ballistics-Techniques-Investigations/dp/0849381630/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343861557&sr=8-1&keywords=gunshot+wounds) > [@Shot through the heart, is death instantaneous?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shot-through-the-heart-is-death-instantaneous/531511/19): > > Dr. Vincent DiMiao, in his book _Gunshot Wounds_, documents a case where a man was shot in the heart at a range of 3-4 ft with a 12ga shotgun firing #7.5 birdshot. The guy’s heart was shredded, but he turned and ran 65 feet before collapsing. If anything is going to stop you in your tracks, you would hope that would be on the list. > > Anecdotally, I was at a wound ballistics seminar, and I heard a police officer relate the tale of a suspect who was holding a shotgun on two people. The police sniper fired a .223 bullet that pierced the man’s heart. He was still able to fire the shotgun at one person, rack the slide, and was preparing to fire again when the sniper put a second shot into his head. Obviously the second claim is anecdotal, but on what basis do you reject the first? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4692 "2012-08-01T23:18:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What’s the evidence that Zimmerman got out of his truck to follow Martin? There isn’t any. Well, idk how reliable the evidence is, but we have GZ say-so that he was following TM. :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4693 "2012-08-01T23:34:53Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > From what I remember from the 911 calls, Zimmerman is sitting in his truck when he says something like, “he’s running now,” after which he gets out of his truck to follow Martin. I believe it was less than a minute later when the dispatcher tells him, “we don’t need you to [follow him].” Zimmerman says, “okay.” At that point, he wouldn’t have been in back of the houses. So if he wasn’t still following Martin, why else did he end up behind the house? Because he was looking for him. The shit hit the fan behind the houses, minutes later. > > What’s that, he left the street to walk behind the houses to check for an address? Riiiiight, makes perfect sense. the sidewalk he was on led to the street he knew the name of. Which is what he stated in the video. When he said OK to the dispatcher he would have been in the back yard along the T given a jog time of 20 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4694 "2012-08-01T23:36:59Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Judge refuses to step down. Seems like a bad decision to me. If this case ever goes to appeals then it could be a factor. This judge obviously was/is pissed over the bail bond fiasco and that could make him biased in the trial. > > Assigning a new judge is a routine administrative matter. Why risk a trial that could get overturned? Step aside and let a new judge take over. > [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083\_162-57484246-504083/trayvon-martin-case-judge-presiding-over-george-zimmerman-trial-will-not-step-down/](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57484246-504083/trayvon-martin-case-judge-presiding-over-george-zimmerman-trial-will-not-step-down/) I think Lester figures that O’Mara will appeal and Lester will be overruled and Lester won’t have admit that he is biased. Lester has actually lost appeals several times. [http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/4/18/205418/108](http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/4/18/205418/108) ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4695 "2012-08-01T23:42:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the sidewalk he was on led to the street he knew the name of. Which is what he stated in the video. When he said OK to the dispatcher he would have been in the back yard along the T given a jog time of 20 seconds. I don’t believe that for a second. He left a street that he was on, to walk behind the houses to a different street altogether – away from the entrance where the cops were due to show up, mind you – because he knew the name of the other street? Horse balls. He went looking for Martin. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4696 "2012-08-01T23:51:46Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I don’t believe that for a second. He left a street that he was on, to walk behind the houses to a different street altogether – away from the entrance where the cops were due to show up, mind you – because he knew the name of the other street? Horse balls. He went looking for Martin. the phone call timeline to the dispatcher puts him at the T intersection. He’s where he said he was. Last time I checked it wasn’t a crime to walk on a sidewalk. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4697 "2012-08-02T00:35:04Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I think Lester figures that O’Mara will appeal and Lester will be overruled and Lester won’t have admit that he is biased. Lester has actually lost appeals several times. > > [http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/4/18/205418/108](http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/4/18/205418/108) He has ruled on issues that the appellate courts have ruled differently on. No judge on any reasonable time on the bench can say he’s never been reversed. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4698 "2012-08-02T01:47:17Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Concisely, Zimmerman complained “These assholes always get away,” at 7:11. Two minutes later, dispatch advised him to stop actually running after Martin. Two minutes after _that_, Zimmerman declined to meet police at the mailboxes, asking that the police call when they arrive, so he could let them know where he’d be. Two minutes after _that_, Martin was shot in the heart. That’s a lot of minutes little Trayvon could have ran, walked or even crawled home to “safety” from the pursuing, chasing, stalking hunter/executioner Zimmerman. Interestingly enough, Zimmerman’s keychain/flashlight was found at the top of the “T”. Ear-witnesses describe the altercation beginning at the top of the “T” and making it’s way down to where the shooting took place. In other words, **the altercation began at the top of the “T”**. Which means that Zimmerman didn’t chase little Trayvon down. > [@](#): > > Only _ **four minutes** _ elapsed between the time he was running after someone he worried might “get away” and the moment he pulled the trigger. _Only_? There are people that can run a four minute mile. Of course, Trayvon probably wasn’t that fast. But he was closer to a FOOT from the top of the “T” when the altercation began. The level of willful pretense required to claim that Trayvon was a passive victim in this is staggering. > [@](#): > > It seems fairly obvious that in those two minutes Zimmerman chased after Martin and laid ahold of him - unless you have some emotional or political reason for treating his statements as gospel and ignoring everything that casts doubt on them. Actually it seems _completely_ obvious that this did not happen and, in fact, is outside the bounds of reason. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4699 "2012-08-02T02:30:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Zimmerman is charged with second degree murder. To prove his guilt, the prosecution must prove: > > 1. Treyvon Martin is dead. > 2. The death was caused by the criminal act of George Zimmerman. > 3. There was an unlawful killing of Treyvon Martin by an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life. > 4. George Zimmerman did not reasonably believe that his use of deadly force was necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself. > 5. The killing happened in Seminole County in the State of Florida. > > That’s all. The prosecution does NOT have to prove that Zimmerman intended to murder Martin. > If they had charged him with first degree murder, they would. But not second degree. > …They will be told each and every element, and asked on the form to indicate that they have found each and every element. This is why “the law” is so confusing at times. Zimmerman is charged with 2nd degree murder but because of the way the statute is written, the jury doesn’t decide if Zimmerman murdered Martin??? If I was on this jury, unless the judge specifically told us NOT to consider this a “murder”, I would be thinking, “This is a murder trial”. We know that items 1 and 5 meet the standard. Items 2, 3, and 4 have yet to be proven in court and beyond a reasonable doubt. Item 2 suggests that the prosecutor must prove that Zimmerman commited a “criminal act”. Not everything has been released yet but I haven’t seen or heard any evidence/testimony that suggests Zimmerman was commiting a criminal act. If Zimmerman had attempted to detain or restrain Martin, that could be considered a crimminal act but no one who was there has said that is what happened. Item 3’s “depraved mind” suggests that, at the time of the shooting, Zimmerman had “no regard for Martin’s life”. According to [LECTLAW.COM](http://LECTLAW.COM) : _The condition of mind described as depravity of mind is characterized by an inherent deficiency of moral sense and integrity. It consists of evil, corrupt and perverted intent which is devoid of regard for human dignity and which is indifferent to human life. It is a state of mind outrageously horrible or inhuman._ Zimmerman has an established history of trying to help people regardless of age, sex, or race. The FBI hasn’t found any history of racism. There is one co-worker who suggest Zimmerman is racist but he has yet to be cross-examined. There is an incident with an ex-girlfriend but they filed charges against each other. I’m not sure if the incident with the underage drinking police is even admissable but it was reduced. Item 4 has been argued ad nauseam on the internet. Yes, Zimmerman was injured but was he injured “enough” to warrant lethal force. I believe that A) Zimmerman was being beaten by an unknown assailant and B) Zimmerman was calling to his neighbors for help. No help arrived (regardless of who was calling) and the struggle was ongoing. Others disagree. So item 4 will be decided by how each member of the jury relates to the evidence. Do all 5 items have to be proved? By that I mean, can proving items 1, 2, 3, and 5 result in a guilty verdict? ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4700 "2012-08-02T02:41:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t know why I bother - you are obviously not paying attention even to the basic facts. > > From the autopsy report ([cite](http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf) - pdf) > > > [@](#): > > > > Other injuries: There is a 1/4 by 1/8 inch small abrasion on the left fourth finger. I know exactly why I bother with you, darling. One basic fact is that one abrasion equals one injury, not injuries as your incorrect cite states in post 4635. Another basic fact is that the abrasion is not located on Martin’s knuckle, as the chart attached to the autopsy report shows. Hence, Martin’s knuckles? Unscathed. Also note that the abrasion is 1/4 by 1/8 inch in size. I’ve had larger marks on my fingers from torn hangnails. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4701 "2012-08-02T03:07:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why is that restriction in place? I’m not a medical professional but I know what a deer heart is. Well, for starters, can you identify which part of the deer’s heart the bullet passed through or lodged, and how much did the deer’s heart weigh? We need this information if we’re going to compare the deer’s injuries to Trayvon’s. I’d also like to hear more about how deer and human gunshot injuries compare and contrast. After all, freshly decapitated chickens are capable of running around for a few seconds, while there are no credible stories of freshly decapitated humans doing the same. Thus, that makes me suspect that there could be differences between deer and human nervous systems that lead to different reactions to similar wounds. > [@Bricker](#): > > [Ok:](http://www.amazon.com/Gunshot-Wounds-Ballistics-Techniques-Investigations/dp/0849381630/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343861557&sr=8-1&keywords=gunshot+wounds) > > Obviously the second claim is anecdotal, but on what basis do you reject the first? I have to, if not reject, put that first claim on hold because I am unable to read the book, and have not been able to find a more in-depth look at that case online. So, I don’t know if that really happened or, more to the point, how that man’s injuries compared to Trayvon’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=234) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=236)