# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 239
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4763 "2012-08-05T14:18:41Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Without examples, I can only conclude this is your unsupported personal opinion. Alan Deshowitz, Jeralyn Merritt, Richard Hornsby. There’s 3 off the top of my head. Bricker, there’s four. Now come up with one on the other side that is not a crackpot. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4764 "2012-08-05T14:21:37Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > Now come up with one on the other side that is not a crackpot. I have no doubt any one I named, you would label a crackpot. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4765 "2012-08-05T14:41:26Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I have no doubt any one I named, you would label a crackpot. I don’t doubt that either, but you should at least give me the chance to label them such. We already eliminated professor Leatherman. Are there any others? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4766 "2012-08-05T18:23:14Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > Alan Deshowitz, Jeralyn Merritt, Richard Hornsby. There’s 3 off the top of my head… That’s like a scumbag-defending all-star team. Zimmerman fits in perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4767 "2012-08-05T19:22:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Text messages have not been released, due to an exception in Florida’s Sunshine laws. As far as I know, the text messages haven’t been released because O’Mara asked for 30 days to review them before they are released. There is no blanket exception to the sunshine law. [http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press\_Releases/zimmerman\_prot\_order.pdf](http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/zimmerman_prot_order.pdf) Page 4 We should be seeing the text messages, although they might redact the telephone numbers. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4768 "2012-08-06T03:59:38Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > We should be seeing the text messages, although they might redact the telephone numbers. I’m only hoping he didn’t text anything really stupid. (Like I probably would have done in his situation.) ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4769 "2012-08-06T04:07:19Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > That’s like a scumbag-defending all-star team. Zimmerman fits in perfectly. All defense attorneys have to represent some scumbags. Every once and a while they have the opportunity to defend an innocent man against pitch-fork carrying mobs, whose been maligned by the media, and who has been prosecuted by a system corrupted by political pressure. Someone has to stand up and advocate for this man, Captain George Zimmerman. This is what defense attorneys are for. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4770 "2012-08-06T16:33:25Z")
[http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-08-06/news/os-trayvon-martin-insurance-claim-20120806\_1\_sybrina-fulton-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-08-06/news/os-trayvon-martin-insurance-claim-20120806_1_sybrina-fulton-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman) > [@](#): > > About a month after the shooting, the federal filings show, Travelers issued an insurance policy to the homeowners association, effective March 30. “After the inception of the claims-made policy, Fulton made a claim for monetary damages…” Travelers says “…as a result of the fatal shooting of Martin.” How could the insurance company be liable for actions on February 26th when the policy was issued on March 30th, unless the policy was retroactive? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4771 "2012-08-06T17:06:40Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > How could the insurance company be liable for actions on February 26th when the policy was issued on March 30th, unless the policy was retroactive? It’s a “claims made” policy, not an “occurrence” policy - it may (and likely does, since it’s not disputed) include an endorsement for prior acts. It still seems like a very dubious claim with little chance of success, though. The only exception is for “wrongful employment practices.” If it’s anything like the coverage I’ve dealt with for strata/condo associations in my last job, this is only meant to cover situations where employees have been wrongly treated; ie; your caretaker is suing you for wrongful termination, or filing a human rights complaint because they claim they are paid less than is typical because of their ethnicity, etc. It looks like they are hoping to claim that the HOA failed in their due diligence by employing Zimmerman as a volunteer, but the chances of the policy being interpreted that way approach zero - coverage for these types of situations would be under professional liability or errors and omissions, if they had it at all - and this is ruled out by the quoted clause. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4772 "2012-08-06T17:40:12Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > …It looks like they are hoping to claim that the HOA failed in their due diligence **by employing Zimmerman as a volunteer** , but the chances of the policy being interpreted that way approach zero - coverage for these types of situations would be under professional liability or errors and omissions, if they had it at all - and this is ruled out by the quoted clause. …_provided that this exclusion shall not apply" to allegations "made as part of a Claim for Wrongful Employment Practices_." Legally-speaking, how are “volunteers” viewed as “employees” in this case? Fulton has filed a claim for monetary damages against an insurance company and the company is asking a judge for a legal ruling on whether it’s truely liable. “Asking for” is not the same as actually receiving a payout. _Benjamin Crump, an attorney for the teen’s family, said that the Martins are investigating possible claims with “ALL the insurance companies that might be applicable” and was seeking to determine “whatever the insurance limits were.”_ Fulton appears to be “shopping” her claim to many insurance companies. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4773 "2012-08-06T17:46:46Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > All defense attorneys have to represent some scumbags. Every once and a while they have the opportunity to defend an innocent man against pitch-fork carrying mobs, whose been maligned by the media, and who has been prosecuted by a system corrupted by political pressure. Someone has to stand up and advocate for this man, Captain George Zimmerman. This is what defense attorneys are for. That brought a tear to my eye, lol. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4774 "2012-08-06T18:03:19Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > …_provided that this exclusion shall not apply" to allegations "made as part of a Claim for Wrongful Employment Practices_." > > Legally-speaking, how are “volunteers” viewed as “employees” in this case? > > Fulton has filed a claim for monetary damages against an insurance company and the company is asking a judge for a legal ruling on whether it’s truely liable. “Asking for” is not the same as actually receiving a payout. > > _Benjamin Crump, an attorney for the teen’s family, said that the Martins are investigating possible claims with “ALL the insurance companies that might be applicable” and was seeking to determine “whatever the insurance limits were.”_ > > Fulton appears to be “shopping” her claim to many insurance companies. Interesting. I looked at the plat map and it appears to me that Trayvon Martin’s head could have been on been on 1211 Twin Trees and his feet were on 1221 Twin Trees. Could both home owners be sued? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4775 "2012-08-06T18:12:31Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Interesting. I looked at the plat map and it appears to me that Trayvon Martin’s head could have been on been on 1211 Twin Trees and his feet were on 1221 Twin Trees. Could both home owners be sued? I think it’s only a matter of “when” Fulton will sue them. And if better lighting had been available at the clubhouse, Zimmerman could have plainly seen that Martin was only picking his butt and not doing anything “suspicious”. It’s obviously the fault of the clubhouse’s designer and it’s current owner. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4776 "2012-08-07T18:30:07Z")
If the political motivations of the prosecution of George Zimmerman were not obvious enough before, they should be now. [- YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJgIV9WmF04&feature=player_embedded#)! _6:04-6:38_ Pam Bondi: “Hey Sybrina, Tracy, are you there. Hi. I am so very, very, sorry. As attorney general, I have absolutely no legal authority to take the case, and I looked, I tried.” Interesting. Very interesting. And since she couldn’t take the case, who did she (obviously) encourage the governor to appoint? Her friend and Attorney General 2010 campaign chair, Angela Corey. [http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/pam-bondi-angela-corey1.jpg](http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/pam-bondi-angela-corey1.jpg) Angela Corey, of course, was the one who prayed with the parents of Trayvon Martin upon their first meeting, referred to Trayvon as a victim very early on, and who was quite friendly with the protesters calling for Zimmerman’s arrest. At other times simulating impartiality. [http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/trayvon-martins-parents-seek-money-fla-fund-16939320](http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/trayvon-martins-parents-seek-money-fla-fund-16939320) “In a\* March 29 \*letter, a claims analyst with the Attorney General’s Office notified Fulton that she had been deemed eligible for the [victim] compensation benefits.” George Zimmerman was not arrested until _April 11th_. Attorney General Bondi had determined that Trayvon Martin was a victim two weeks before Zimmerman was charged with anything. At this point, I am really hoping that this is investigated, and appropriate action taken. This is obviously not how our justice system is supposed to operate. While I don’t agree with all of their theories, etc., The Conservative Treehouse definitely seem to have a very compelling case _as it relates to_ Pam Bondi, Corey, and the political decision to prosecute Zimmerman. > **[The TrayMom Financial Motives Begin To Visibly Surface - People NOW Surprised...](https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2012/08/07/the-traymom-financial-motives-begin-to-visibly-surface-people-now-surprised-to-identify-true-motivations-so-well-expose-again/)** > > Within the last 48 hours the public is beginning to see the tip of the iceberg regarding the True motivations of Sybrina Fulton, aka TrayMom™. Perhaps a revisit to the known financial agenda of the circle surrounding Trayvon Martin will help those... ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4777 "2012-08-07T18:39:59Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > If the political motivations of the prosecution of George Zimmerman were not obvious enough before, they should be now. Are you saying that GZ is being prosecuted solely for political reasons? Or are you noting that a case which has drawn national attention has political implications for those involved? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4778 "2012-08-07T18:50:13Z")
Of course there’s nothing politically motivated in an article from Conservative Tree House with link mouse-over that includes: “traymom-financial-motives,” that’s just crazy talk. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4779 "2012-08-07T19:33:29Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Are you saying that GZ is being prosecuted solely for political reasons? > > Or are you noting that a case which has drawn national attention has political implications for those involved? Yes, I’m saying that George Zimmerman is being prosecuted for political reasons, and that this decision was made long before Corey launched her “investigation”. And it gets much worse. I couldn’t believe that Pam Bondi actually said that the attorneys for Trayvon Martin were “friends of mine”. But yes, this user accurately quoted what she said in the video linked below. Anyway, here is a comment from one of the people on CT with (for Jack Batty) _ **citations** _ for everything. > [@](#): > > diwataman says: > August 7, 2012 at 5:44 am > Just to add a little more context on Bondi > > March > Kevin Cunningham petitions Florida Attorney General at [Change.org](http://Change.org) > 500,000 Signatures reached by March 20, 2012 > > [Petition · Prosecute the killer of our son, 17-year-old Trayvon Martin - United States · Change.org](http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-killer-of-our-son-17-year-old-trayvon-martin) > [http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/\_news/2012/03/29/10907662-how-one-man-helped-spark-online-protest-in-trayvon-martin-case?lite](http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/29/10907662-how-one-man-helped-spark-online-protest-in-trayvon-martin-case?lite) > > March 20 > Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi said she was “devastated and **deeply troubled** ” over the killing. “When someone loses his life at the hands of another, there cannot be any **questions surrounding the circumstances** of the death,” she said in a statement. > > She said she had spoken with FDLE Commissioner Gerald M. Bailey, “and I know that a complete and thorough review of the facts will be conducted.”She added that while it is up to the Seminole County State Attorney’s Office to decide whether to file charges, “I will remain vigilant in ensuring that questions are answered.” > > [http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-20/justice/justice\_florida-teen-shooting\_1\_martin-family-cell-phone-benjamin-crump/2?\_s=PM:JUSTICE](http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-20/justice/justice_florida-teen-shooting_1_martin-family-cell-phone-benjamin-crump/2?_s=PM:JUSTICE) > > March 21 > IN NEW YORK CITY LIMO (With Crump) > 6:04-6:38 Pam Bondi: “Hey Sybrina, Tracy, are you there. Hi. **I am so very, very, sorry.** As attorney general, **I have absolutely no legal authority to take the case, and I looked, I tried.** ” > > March 22 > Governor Rick Scott **and Attorney General Pam Bondi worked together to appoint Angela B. Corey** > > [http://myfloridalegal.com/\_\_852562220065EE67.nsf/0/3FF1F801C4D80C49852579C9007FAD30?Open&Highlight=0,trayvon,martin](http://myfloridalegal.com/__852562220065EE67.nsf/0/3FF1F801C4D80C49852579C9007FAD30?Open&Highlight=0,trayvon,martin) > > March 29 > Democrats Ask Pam Bondi for Trayvon Martin updates > > The Florida Democratic congressional delegation sent a letter to Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi expressing concerns over the Trayvon Martin case. > > The letter asks the attorney general’s office to keep the six Democrats — Alcee L. Hastings, Miramar, Frederica Wilson, Miami Gardens, Ted Deutch, Boca Raton, Kathy Castor, Tampa, Corrine Brown, Jacksonville, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Weston — updated on the state’s > investigation. > > [http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/blog/floridas-congressional-democrats-ask-trayvon-martin-updates-pam-bondi](http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/blog/floridas-congressional-democrats-ask-trayvon-martin-updates-pam-bondi) > > **March 29** > Pam Bondi **deemed Trayvon Martin was an innocent victim and that Sybrina Fulton was eligible for money from the State** > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/trayvon-martins-parents-seek-undisclosed-sum-of-money-from-state-of-fla-victims-fund/2012/08/06/331f1182-dfd9-11e1-8d48-2b1243f34c85\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/trayvon-martins-parents-seek-undisclosed-sum-of-money-from-state-of-fla-victims-fund/2012/08/06/331f1182-dfd9-11e1-8d48-2b1243f34c85_story.html) > > March 30 > _1:04_ “What we care about is justice for Trayvon Martin’s family” [\] “…and for both sides” > _2:04_“Shot, walking home” > “and his lawyers who are friends of mine” > _2:28_ \*\*I’ve spoken to Trayvon’s parents, they are amazing people, and his lawyers, who are friends of mine. \*\* > [http://johnkingusa.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/30/fl-attorney-general-on-trayvon-martin-case/](http://johnkingusa.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/30/fl-attorney-general-on-trayvon-martin-case/) > > April 11 > Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi released a statement saying she had full confidence in the charges.“ **When I worked with Governor Scott to appoint State Attorney Angela Corey to the case** involving Trayvon Martin, I did so with the full confidence that a swift and thorough investigation would be conducted,” > > Bondi said in her statement. “Today, State Attorney Corey’s decision to press charges against George Zimmerman for the shooting of Trayvon demonstrates Corey’s commitment to bringing **justice** _ **to Trayvon’s family** _ and allowing **due process** _ **for Zimmerman** _.” > > [Zimmerman Charged With 2nd Degree Murder - CBS Miami](http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/04/11/report-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-shooting-wednesday-afternoon/) I added italics, highlights, and a few numbers and comments, but vast majority was put together by the user above. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4780 "2012-08-07T19:35:36Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Of course there’s nothing politically motivated in an article from Conservative Tree House with link mouse-over that includes: “traymom-financial-motives,” that’s just crazy talk. As I said, I’m talking specifically about the connections with Pam Bondi, Corey, and their obvious inclination to charge Zimmerman long before there was an “impartial” investigation of any kind. It’s all cited. The pictures are real. I’m simply giving credit to the CT and that user for putting the Pam Bondi stuff together. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4781 "2012-08-07T19:39:09Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > I couldn’t believe that Pam Bondi actually said that the attorneys for Trayvon Martin were “friends of mine”. Why would you find this so shocking? Attorneys know each other. Strange but true. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4782 "2012-08-07T20:20:17Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why would you find this so shocking? Attorneys know each other. Strange but true. That she “knew” some attorneys is not the least bit shocking. That she would describe the attorneys representing Trayvon’s parents as her _friends_ is. That she would do so publicly even more so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=238) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=240)