# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 249
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4963 "2012-08-12T21:39:27Z")
What is amazing is the amount of detail people expect of him in the retelling. I just finished connecting up a video system of which I had a tremendous amount of problems. Couldn’t begin to tell you the series of events that took place until I figured it out. That just happened. 5 minutes ago. I can tell you I was in a huge bar brawl years ago. I got involved only in instances of last resort where I thought someone might die. To this day the people involved can’t agree on the events as they unfolded. It was all a blur to each person. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4964 "2012-08-12T21:39:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > He agreed not to follow him after asked by the dispatcher. that is not the same as looking for him. there is no indication he ever left the sidewalk until Martin assaulted him. As it stands now, he did exactly what he should have done. > > The same cannot be said of Martin. Following, looking for him, whatever. It’s not observing, reporting and letting the police handle it. Which is exactly what he should have done. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4965 "2012-08-12T21:45:14Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > Why would he walk back through to his street (East) if he were following Martin? Martin went South. You easily forget things, don’t you? Pages ago I explained to you my theory for what GZ did after he got off the phone with the dispatcher. He ran across the T to Retreat View and then hooked a right to head off Martin at the pass, since he had it in his mind that Martin was running for the rear entrance. This would account for what he was doing in the 2 minute gap after his call with the dispatcher ended. The fact that he said absolutely nothing about looking for a street sign the first time he attempted to explain his actions is a big honking clue that was it a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4966 "2012-08-12T21:46:33Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > Following, looking for him, whatever. It’s not observing, reporting and letting the police handle it. Which is exactly what he should have done. Which is exactly what he appeared to do. What good is a neighborhood watch if you don’t WATCH. The phone call would have been: “I just saw some kid walking around. Here’s the address. Thanks.” 20 minutes later (if you’re lucky) the police drive through. A complete waste of time. Now lets look at Martin. It’s raining, he’s coming back from an important munchie run. He decides to beat the tar out of someone. This is exactly what he should NOT have done. He’s damn lucky he was shot. I don’t carry a gun and would have carved him like a turkey given the chance to defend myself. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4967 "2012-08-12T21:56:11Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > I have never heard a satisfactory answer to this question: > > If Zimmerman’s intention was to pursue Martin, he would have moved South down the “T”. But his keys (with mini-flashlight on) were found a **few feet** from the **top** of the “T”. Martin’s body was found about 40 feet from the top of the “T”. > If Zimmerman had headed south he would have passed through and _well past_ _both_ of these points during the remainder of his phone call alone. > > If Zimmerman had actually continued to follow Martin, then why was the debris field found in places that Zimmerman surely would have passed? If Zimmerman had intended to capture Martin, then he would have stayed in the truck and driven to south end of Twin Trees and gotten in front of Martin. Getting out of the truck and walking would is lousy tactics if he wanted to confront Martin. The fact that Zimmerman got out his truck indicates that Zimmerman was actually avoiding Martin. This tactic backfired because Martin didn’t continue running like Zimmerman thought he would and was actually still close to the top of T. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4968 "2012-08-12T21:56:13Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > You easily forget things, don’t you? Pages ago I explained to you my theory for what GZ did after he got off the phone with the dispatcher. He ran across the T to Retreat View and then hooked a right to head off Martin at the pass, since he had it in his mind that Martin was running for the rear entrance. This would account for what he was doing in the 2 minute gap after his call with the dispatcher ended. > > The fact that he said absolutely nothing about looking for a street sign the first time he attempted to explain his actions is a big honking clue that was it a lie. You’re theory is a big honking clue you have an imagination without any basis of fact. If he headed Martin off then the fight would have occurred somewhere else. It didn’t. It happened where he said it happened and that was in the area consistent with his account and not your theory. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4969 "2012-08-12T22:07:39Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > If Zimmerman had intended to capture Martin, then he would have stayed in the truck and driven to south end of Twin Trees and gotten in front of Martin. Getting out of the truck and walking would is lousy tactics if he wanted to confront Martin. **The fact that Zimmerman got out his truck indicates that Zimmerman was actually avoiding Martin.** > > This tactic backfired because Martin didn’t continue running like Zimmerman thought he would and was actually still close to the top of T. The bolded is some Michelle Kwan level spin. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4970 "2012-08-12T22:15:05Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > It’s not observing, reporting and letting the police handle it. Which is exactly what he should have done. And _observing_ and _reporting_ to the police (who he called to handle it) is exactly what he did. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4971 "2012-08-12T22:23:53Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > I have never heard a satisfactory answer to this question: > > If Zimmerman’s intention was to pursue Martin, he would have moved South down the “T”. But his keys (with mini-flashlight on) were found a **few feet** from the **top** of the “T”. Martin’s body was found about 40 feet from the top of the “T”. > If Zimmerman had headed south he would have passed through and _well past_ _both_ of these points during the remainder of his phone call alone. The fact is none of us know how his keys ended up there. Not even Zimmerman has provided an explanation for this. If you listen to the dispatcher call closely, you’ll hear him actually say his keys are in his truck. Even more notably, he never admitted to carrying the mini flashlight. In fact, he seemingly went out his way to play up the idea that he only had one flashlight on him–the inoperative one. Why would he have been obligated to go down the T to follow Martin? If his objective was to nab him, not simply observe him, and he was confident the kid was going to the rear entrance way, it would make more sense for him to go down RVC. This strategy would allow him to evade Martin’s attention and increase his chances of overtaking him. If you read the first bond hearing transcript, you’ll see that the prosecution has a witness who says they saw someone chasing someone else south to north. > [@](#): > > DE LA RIONDA: Mr. Zimmerman never claimed that he chased - in terms of ‘ran after’ - Mr. Martin, is that correct? > > GILBREATH: No. > > DE LA RIONDA: But you still have, is it not true, a witness who describes someone chasing another person from the area where they ended up… in other words, from where, near where Mr. Martin lived to the area where the murder happened? > > GILBREATH: Yes Based on what this witness saw, it’s possible that Martin was actually standing near his house, and then was confronted by Zimmerman who was coming up the dog path after failing to turn up Martin at the rear entrance. The fight then traveled north. I don’t know if this happened or not, but what’s obvious is that there is plenty of evidence that contradicts Zimmerman’s version of events. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4972 "2012-08-12T22:24:49Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > He ran across the T to Retreat View and then hooked a right to head off Martin at the pass, since he had it in his mind that Martin was running for the rear entrance. You’re suggesting Zimmerman came back up from the South? OK, but my question still stands. Why was the debris field where it was- at the top of the “T”. Why hadn’t Martin already made it home by the time Zimmerman cut in? Why were his keys at the top of the “T”? Why did witnesses hear the altercation move from the top of the “T” south? It makes no sense. Some part of you must realize this. > [@](#): > > The fact that he said absolutely nothing about looking for a street sign the first time he attempted to explain his actions is a big honking clue that was it a lie. He also didn’t mention dropping his keys either. Yet there they were sitting right on the ground, having obviously been dropped. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4973 "2012-08-12T22:40:15Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > The bolded is some Michelle Kwan level spin. So you concede the point that it would make more sense for Zimmerman to drive to the south end of Twin Trees. You just don’t like the way I spin it. Who is Michelle Kwan? ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4974 "2012-08-12T22:45:06Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > And _observing_ and _reporting_ to the police (who he called to handle it) is exactly what he did. If he had let the police handle it Trayvon would still be alive. Trayvon is not alive, therefore, he didn’t let the police handle it. ‘What are you doing here?’ is not letting the police handle it. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4975 "2012-08-12T22:52:15Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > So you concede the point that it would make more sense for Zimmerman to drive to the south end of Twin Trees. You just don’t like the way I spin it. > > Who is Michelle Kwan? No. The way to avoid Trayvon was to stay in his car and wait for the police. Following and/or looking for him is not. Michelle Kwan is a US figure skater. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4976 "2012-08-12T23:27:53Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The fact is none of us know how his keys ended up there. Not even Zimmerman has provided an explanation for this. If you listen to the dispatcher call closely, you’ll hear him actually say his keys are in his truck. Even more notably, he never admitted to carrying the mini flashlight. In fact, he seemingly went out his way to play up the idea that he only had one flashlight on him–the inoperative one. > > Why would he have been obligated to go down the T to follow Martin? If his objective was to nab him, not simply observe him, and he was confident the kid was going to the rear entrance way, it would make more sense for him to go down RVC. This strategy would allow him to evade Martin’s attention and increase his chances of overtaking him. > > If you read the first bond hearing transcript, you’ll see that the prosecution has a witness who says they saw someone chasing someone else south to north. > > Based on what this witness saw, it’s possible that Martin was actually standing near his house, and then was confronted by Zimmerman who was coming up the dog path after failing to turn up Martin at the rear entrance. The fight then traveled north. I don’t know if this happened or not, but what’s obvious is that there is plenty of evidence that contradicts Zimmerman’s version of events. This same witness later claimed it was just one person. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4977 "2012-08-13T00:06:38Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > You’re suggesting Zimmerman came back up from the South? OK, but my question still stands. Why was the debris field where it was- at the top of the “T”. All the debris accounted for in Zimmerman’s narrative (his inoperative flashlight) was found near Martin’s dead body. It is possible that the key and mini flashlight could have been left behind by someone other than Zimmerman. That is not outside the realm of possibility, given how unsecure the crime scene was. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4978 "2012-08-13T00:13:59Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The fact is none of us know how his keys ended up there. Not even Zimmerman has provided an explanation for this It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. He dropped them when he was punched in the face by the ‘little boy’. > [@](#): > > If you listen to the dispatcher call closely, you’ll hear him actually say his keys are in his truck. It isn’t clear to me he says that at all. In fact, it makes absolutely no sense that he would say this. > [@](#): > > Even more notably, he never admitted to carrying the mini flashlight. He never “admitted” it, or never _mentioned_ it? It isn’t like Serino was grilling him about carrying the mini-flashlight and Zimmerman steadfastly denied it. > [@](#): > > In fact, he seemingly went out his way to play up the idea that he only had one flashlight on him–the inoperative one. Little keychain lights are not known for their exceptional luminosity. There is probably a reason he brought a _real_ flashlight along with him. > [@](#): > > If you read the first bond hearing transcript, you’ll see that the prosecution has a witness who says they saw someone chasing someone else south to north. That witness had no idea what see saw or how many people she saw, she didn’t have her glasses in. > [@](#): > > …I don’t know if this happened or not, but what’s obvious is that there is plenty of evidence that contradicts Zimmerman’s version of events. Not nearly as much as the evidence contradicts the alternative versions of events, including yours. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4979 "2012-08-13T00:19:34Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > If he had let the police handle it Trayvon would still be alive. Trayvon is not alive, therefore, he didn’t let the police handle it. If Trayvon had not attacked Zimmerman, he would still be alive today. Trayvon is not alive, therefore, he attacked Zimmerman. (Every version has Trayvon initiating the confrontation.) ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4980 "2012-08-13T00:30:10Z")
“Sir, what street is your truck parked on?” “I’m not sure. Let me tell you the name of street that it’s \*not \*parked on, because I know that one better.” Genius. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4981 "2012-08-13T00:31:22Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It is possible that the key and mini flashlight could have been left behind by someone other than Zimmerman. That is not outside the realm of possibility, given how unsecure the crime scene was. I can’t think of a plausible scenario that would be within the realm of any likelihood. You have a second problem anyway- multiple witnesses describe the altercation beginning in the north and moving southward. Was Zimmerman throwing his voice (and Martin’s voice, too) in order to simulate this effect, or did he have help from the guy who planted the keys and flashlight? ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/4982 "2012-08-13T00:58:08Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > If Trayvon had not attacked Zimmerman, he would still be alive today. Trayvon is not alive, therefore, he attacked Zimmerman. (Every version has Trayvon initiating the confrontation.) There you go with that Trayvon spoke first so he attacked Zimmerman canard. One does not follow from the other. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=248) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=250)