# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 275
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5483 "2012-08-25T20:45:16Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I rarely share experiences with racism with white people because, generally, white people don’t believe in racism unless it involves rope, a tree, an angry mob, and a burning cross. That’s a slight exaggeration but it’s not far off the mark. Sounds like you’ve suffered from some racism directed at you, and a great deal more of being called out for being an entitled dick. Or do you really think only black people have ever been accused of cheating in class :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Not to pull a rural-suburban on you, but I bet my bottom dollar I have more white friends than you have black friends. I’ll even go further and bet I have more healthy, enduring relationships with white people than you do with _any_ racial group excluding your own. “Some of my best friends are white”. Again with the reverse racism, even you must be able to see that. > [@](#): > > The reason it’s convenient to label me a racist is because it’s vogue to label blacks who speak up as using the “race card”. This is used specifically to diminish the complaint and to denigrate the person speaking up. Correct. In your case, the diminishing and denigration are earned, and you continue to earn them with every post. Not everything unpleasant that happens to a black person is due to racism, in fact most of it isn’t. > [@](#): > > Someone here just posted that racial profiling isn’t racism. Yep. If black men have been seen burgling houses, only black men should be suspects for the crime. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5484 "2012-08-25T21:31:49Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > If Zimmerman had showed compassion by calling an ambulance, compressing a wound, shouting for help (Odd how the screams for help stopped after Trayvon was dead, eh?), rather than let Trayvon’s body lay bleeding out into the grass. The police were already on their way, and Zimmerman was fully aware of that - he was the one who contacted them in the first place. I don’t think another call to 911 was going to get an ambulance there any faster. How many seconds elapsed between the shooting and the arrival of the authorities? And therefore I don’t find it odd at all that Zimmerman stopped screaming for help after he shot Martin. What was there to scream about? The police were already on their way, Martin’s beating of Zimmerman had ended, and the neighbors were already aware that the altercation had taken/was taking place. Besides, if Zimmerman had tried to apply a bandage, somebody is bound to say that Zimmerman was obviously trying to finish Martin off. But, someone attacks you, beats the shit out of your face, tackles you, and beats your head on the ground. So you shoot him, roll him off you, and check him for weapons to make sure he still doesn’t have the chance to kill you. And then, if you don’t instantly turn into Mother fucking Theresa and begin applying first aid, you’re lying? Bit harsh, ISTM. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5485 "2012-08-26T04:16:20Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I want to stress that my experiences isn’t simply a narrow slice from the Internet but from my experiences as whole: the only black person in classes (I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve been called in for “cheating” or “plagiarizing”; In undergrad, I was outright told by a classmate that I “stole” her friend’s seat who was denied admission), during research in the laboratory (I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been indirectly and directly accused of stealing reagents/sabotaging other people’s experiments, have had campus police called on me numerous times when I belonged there), and my job where the list is down-right exhaustive and ranges between unequal pay to disparaging comments about black students. I lived in Tallahassee for a while, went to college with blacks, (even did experiments with them), worked in sales with blacks, delivered pizzas to FAMU, and also lived in Atlanta where I worked with blacks. I don’t recall ever seeing a student, professor, co-worker, or employer treat a black person unfairly. Even co-workers I knew to be racist avoided blacks rather than mistreat them. Quite the opposite. A good portion of whites go out of their way to treat blacks well. That’s not to say that there aren’t a large number of white people who have unfavorable impressions of a lot of black people. It was not uncommon to hear a white person relate a story about a very unpleasant experience that they had with a black person. When I delivered pizzas, let’s just say that black people did not have a reputation for being great tippers. Deliveries to FAMU were not among the most popular (or pleasant) runs. And, yes, drivers tried to avoid having to be the one to deliver there. (And, yes, I turned off my car topper light when I delivered in black areas.) Yes, negative attitudes towards black people are prevalent. But I did not see hardly any of the stuff you described: False accusations of cheating, stealing reagents, sabotaging other people’s experiments, or _unfair_ badmouthing of other black students and co-workers. For black co-workers and students that were cool, had a good sense of humor, and weren’t assholes? White people had nothing but positive things to say. They were almost always the most popular people in the workplace. Based on my limited experience with you, I can’t say I’m terribly shocked that you’ve found yourself surrounded by white people who don’t like you- or that you were the recipient of some disparaging remarks. As far as your link re: the Trayvon sign, yeah, there are racist white people. We know this. But this idea that black men fear for their safety (lest they be lynched by a white person) is utterly ridiculous. For every link you provide of a black victim at the hands of a white person I will show you 5 of white victims at the hands of a black person. So what’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5486 "2012-08-29T23:12:33Z")
As the world turns: [Appeals court: Judge in Trayvon Martin case must step down](http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/29/justice/florida-zimmerman-judge/) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5487 "2012-08-29T23:29:21Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > As the world turns: [Appeals court: Judge in Trayvon Martin case must step down](http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/29/justice/florida-zimmerman-judge/) Buh bye Lester ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5488 "2012-08-29T23:30:41Z")
Christ, what a circus. And I here I thought this was somehow going to be different than the whatsherfuck-tot-mom trial. Fucking Florida. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5489 "2012-08-30T07:40:13Z")
I’m looking forward to Bricker’s explanation about why the Appeal’s court is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5490 "2012-08-30T07:54:14Z")
Actually I just read that this isn’t over. AG Pam Biondi’s, can file a petition to review this decision with the Florida Supreme Court. More news says that Biondi won’t appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5491 "2012-08-30T14:47:52Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I’m looking forward to Bricker’s explanation about why the Appeal’s court is wrong. They are not wrong. They chose to exercise their discretion in a different way than I would have done. But this is one of those issues that should not matter either way. I don’t agree that Judge Lester’s comments were intemperate. In my view, Zimmerman would have gotten a perfectly fair trial under Judge Lester. But I can hardly say that either the state or the accused suffers from this result. in other words, both Zimmerman and the state of Florida will get a perfectly fair trial now, too. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5492 "2012-08-30T16:46:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But this is one of those issues that should not matter either way. I don’t agree that Judge Lester’s comments were intemperate. In my view, Zimmerman would have gotten a perfectly fair trial under Judge Lester. > > But I can hardly say that either the state or the accused suffers from this result. in other words, both Zimmerman and the state of Florida will get a perfectly fair trial now, too. I beg to differ. I think it’s probably a huge win for GZ (I only hedge a bit because we don’t know who he’s getting now). Especially if - as I understand it - the SYG hearing has the judge as finder of fact. Judge Lester’s interpetations of the evidence to this point - most notably that GZ was preparing to flee until he was somehow thwarted - have been pretty skewed IMO, and it’s reasonable to assume that this would have continued going forward. Understood that GZ has only himself to blame, for playing games at the first bail hearing. But having thoroughly alienated this judge, he’s much better off starting from scratch with a new one. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5493 "2012-08-30T17:03:39Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I beg to differ. I think it’s probably a huge win for GZ (I only hedge a bit because we don’t know who he’s getting now). Especially if - as I understand it - the SYG hearing has the judge as finder of fact. > > Judge Lester’s interpetations of the evidence to this point - most notably that GZ was preparing to flee until he was somehow thwarted - have been pretty skewed IMO, and it’s reasonable to assume that this would have continued going forward. > > Understood that GZ has only himself to blame, for playing games at the first bail hearing. But having thoroughly alienated this judge, he’s much better off starting from scratch with a new one. Unless the new judge is discovered in a cave on Mars, where he’s been living for the last ten years, he or she will probably be aware of Zimmerman’s deceptive approach to the issue of bail. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5494 "2012-08-30T17:07:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Unless the new judge is discovered in a cave on Mars, where he’s been living for the last ten years, he or she will probably be aware of Zimmerman’s deceptive approach to the issue of bail. Of course. But there’s a huge difference between being aware that this guy showed up so-and-so and having the guy actually actually show you up. One is intellectual and the other is also emotional. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5495 "2012-08-30T17:14:16Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Of course. > > But there’s a huge difference between being aware that this guy showed up so-and-so and having the guy actually actually show you up. > > One is intellectual and the other is also emotional. I suppose. But if a judge says that he is able to rule impartially, I take him at his word. In any event, the accused is guaranteed a fair trial, not a trial in which the judge has never heard of him. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5496 "2012-08-30T17:18:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But if a judge says that he is able to rule impartially, I take him at his word. Why? That’s completely illogical. > [@](#): > > In any event, the accused is guaranteed a fair trial, not a trial in which the judge has never heard of him. True. But we are not discussing whether GZ is entitled to a new judge under the law. We’re discussing whether - as a practical matter - the removal of this judge is advantageous to GZ. It is. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5497 "2012-08-30T18:07:58Z")
[http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/8/30/zimmerman\_judge\_debr.html](http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/8/30/zimmerman_judge_debr.html) This is Hobson’s choice in this case, but a lot of people thought they might appoint a retired judge. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5498 "2012-08-30T19:43:15Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But we are not discussing whether GZ is entitled to a new judge under the law. We’re discussing whether - as a practical matter - the removal of this judge is advantageous to GZ. It is. OK. You’ll forgive me if I don’t dance happily at the thought of another advantage heading Zimmerman’s way. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5499 "2012-08-30T20:31:33Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But we are not discussing whether GZ is entitled to a new judge under the law. We’re discussing whether - as a practical matter -\*\* the removal of this judge is advantageous to GZ.\*\* It is. “The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t” just very well may apply here. This new judge might be even more impartial than Lester (supposedly) was. Think about it. If Lester had stayed on, he likely would have felt pressure to act as objectively as possible so that O’Mara couldn’t later successfully appeal a guilty verdict. This new judge will not be under the same pressure. So I see no reason to think this is a win for Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5500 "2012-08-31T11:03:08Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If Lester had stayed on, he likely would have felt pressure to act as objectively as possible so that O’Mara couldn’t later successfully appeal a guilty verdict. This new judge will not be under the same pressure. I have no experience with the Florida court system, but I hope that all their judges are pressed to act objectively. YMMV. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5501 "2012-08-31T13:37:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I have no experience with the Florida court system, but I hope that all their judges are pressed to act objectively. We are talking about human beings here. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5502 "2012-08-31T15:14:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK. > > You’ll forgive me if I don’t dance happily at the thought of another advantage heading Zimmerman’s way. Maybe you should explain why you don’t want the defendant to receive a fair trial. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=274) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=276)