# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 276
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5503 "2012-08-31T15:25:39Z")
Maybe you should explain how, “an advantage heading Zimmerman’s way” contributes to a “fair trial.” ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5504 "2012-08-31T17:05:58Z")
An unbiased, objective judge is an advantage in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5505 "2012-08-31T17:58:06Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Maybe you should explain why you don’t want the defendant to receive a fair trial. I absolutely want Zimmerman to receive a fair trial. I simply didn’t agree that Judge Lester showed any particular bias that would rise to the level of an unfair trial. Here’s an analogy: suppose, during the trial, that Zimmerman says something in response to an improper question that hurts his credibility. This is an error, and the judge has some choices about curing it. The judge can say to the jury, “You are instructed to disregard that remark.” Now, that doesn’t necessarily make his trial unfair. He did something, himself, that hurt his credibility, but making him live with the result is not unfair. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5506 "2012-08-31T23:20:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I absolutely want Zimmerman to receive a fair trial. > > I simply didn’t agree that Judge Lester showed any particular bias that would rise to the level of an unfair trial. > > Here’s an analogy: suppose, during the trial, that Zimmerman says something in response to an improper question that hurts his credibility. This is an error, and the judge has some choices about curing it. The judge can say to the jury, “You are instructed to disregard that remark.” > > Now, that doesn’t necessarily make his trial unfair. He did something, himself, that hurt his credibility, but making him live with the result is not unfair. I disagree. Judge Lester’s comments were way out of bounds and the appeals court agreed with me. Judge Nelson is running unopposed this year, while Lester was running for reelection in 2014. He might have actually been running for election while the trial was in progress. Judge Nelson is much less likely to feel political pressure. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5507 "2012-08-31T23:48:47Z")
I view this much more pragmatically. It’s clear to me the state is taking preemptive measures to avoid future appeals from the defense It’s more simple to throw O’Mara this chump crumb than it is revisit it later when everyone wants the matter to be put to rest. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5508 "2012-09-01T00:16:49Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I view this much more pragmatically. It’s clear to me the state is taking preemptive measures to avoid future appeals from the defense > > It’s more simple to throw O’Mara this chump crumb than it is revisit it later when everyone wants the matter to be put to rest. There will still be appeals if the jury convicts without evidence. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5509 "2012-09-01T00:27:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There will still be appeals if the jury convicts without evidence. Well, duh. But at least the defense can’t appeal on _this_ matter. . ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5510 "2012-09-01T05:48:08Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > “The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t” just very well may apply here. This new judge might be even more impartial than Lester (supposedly) was. > > Think about it. If Lester had stayed on, he likely would have felt pressure to act as objectively as possible so that O’Mara couldn’t later successfully appeal a guilty verdict. This new judge will not be under the same pressure. > > So I see no reason to think this is a win for Zimmerman. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5511 "2012-09-01T05:59:42Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > I agree. getting rid of a judge who is up for re-election makes more sense in a trial that bypassed the grand-jury system. As it stands now, it reeks of political intervention. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5512 "2012-09-01T12:08:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > getting rid of a judge who is up for re-election makes more sense in a trial that bypassed the grand-jury system. As it stands now, it reeks of political intervention. This may be a bit of a hijack, but what on earth is the rationale behind electing judges? Doesn’t it pretty much guarantee bias? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5513 "2012-09-01T14:11:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > getting rid of a judge who is up for re-election makes more sense in a trial that bypassed the grand-jury system. As it stands now, it reeks of political intervention. Why do you think a charge of 2nd degree murder “by-passed” a grand jury? > [@](#): > > Unlike in a first degree or felony murder prosecution, **a grand jury does not need to indict the defendant before a prosecution may begin**. Second degree murders often are decided on the “common sense” of the jury. Whether a person’s actions amount to the requisite intent or recklessness to warrant conviction is often left up to the jury’s determination. [http://www.arnoldlawfirmllc.com/CM/Custom/SecondDegreeMurder.asp](http://www.arnoldlawfirmllc.com/CM/Custom/SecondDegreeMurder.asp) ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5514 "2012-09-01T17:49:08Z")
[quote=“you\_with\_the\_face, post:5513, topic:619125”] Why do you think a charge of 2nd degree murder “by-passed” a grand jury? The case was already scheduled to go to a grand jury. Angela Corey decided to bypass them. O’Mara has already said that there isn’t enough evidence for a grand jury indictment. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5515 "2012-09-01T18:33:47Z")
Lester was too soft. He should have cited that lying punk for contempt and thrown his thug-ass in jail for a year. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5516 "2012-09-01T18:39:16Z")
[quote=“JoelUpchurch, post:5514, topic:619125”] > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Why do you think a charge of 2nd degree murder “by-passed” a grand jury? > > The case was already scheduled to go to a grand jury. Angela Corey decided to bypass them. > > O’Mara has already said that there isn’t enough evidence for a grand jury indictment. You seem to take a lot of what O’Mara says at face value. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5517 "2012-09-01T18:59:32Z")
[quote=“JoelUpchurch, post:5514, topic:619125”] > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Why do you think a charge of 2nd degree murder “by-passed” a grand jury? > > The case was already scheduled to go to a grand jury. Angela Corey decided to bypass them. > > O’Mara has already said that there isn’t enough evidence for a grand jury indictment. There certainly wasn’t enough evidence to prove Zimmerman followed Martin and confronted him, as Corey claimed in her Probable Cause. Serino even admitted there wasn’t any place to hide where the incident occurred, which makes sense, since there only privacy screens open to the sidewalk, and low lying vegetation. Even with curtains drawn, any inside lights would have still illuminated the patio areas. Since Zimmerman was at the T, banging his flashlight on the dog potty, minutes before the incident, in front of where the body was found, it’s just logical to conclude Martin returned to the top of the T. It would be rather difficult for an impartial grand jury, if not Corey, to conclude otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5518 "2012-09-01T19:29:50Z")
[quote=“you\_with\_the\_face, post:5516, topic:619125”] > [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > You seem to take a lot of what O’Mara says at face value. No I assume that smart liars don’t tell lies that are are easy to disprove. It there was discovery evidence that would prove O’Mara is a liar then he wouldn’t have told that lie. All the discovery evidence we have seen to date supports his statement, for people that can rationally evaluate it. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5519 "2012-09-01T19:53:18Z")
[quote=“hmarvin, post:5517, topic:619125”] > [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > there only privacy screens open to the sidewalk, and low lying vegetation. Even with curtains drawn, any inside lights would have still illuminated the patio areas. You are assuming that Brandy Green is the only person on Retreat View that goes out on a Sunday night or no one watches television with the lights off. I’m assuming that Martin was sitting on one of the porches to get out of the rain. Your assumption is wrong in any case. I have a projector in my media room, so the curtains block almost at the light. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5520 "2012-09-01T21:29:29Z")
[quote=“JoelUpchurch, post:5519, topic:619125”] > [@hmarvin](#): > > You are assuming that Brandy Green is the only person on Retreat View that goes out on a Sunday night or no one watches television with the lights off. I’m assuming that Martin was sitting on one of the porches to get out of the rain. Your assumption is wrong in any case. I have a projector in my media room, so the curtains block almost at the light. There were witnesses, even near the T, so they hadn’t all gone out. I doubt everyone was watching television with the lights out, or even had their curtains closed in the early evening. At any rate, it doesn’t explain why Trayvon Martin ended up near the T, where the dispatcher call indicated that Zimmerman had been minutes before the incident. Why would Martin be sitting under one of the porches when he could have been quickly home? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5521 "2012-09-01T21:39:43Z")
[QUOTE=JoelUpchurch] No I assume that smart liars don’t tell lies that are are easy to disprove. It there was discovery evidence that would prove O’Mara is a liar then he wouldn’t have told that lie. All the discovery evidence we have seen to date supports his statement, for people that can rationally evaluate it. [/QUOTE] If the state didn’t have enough evidence against Zimmerman, O’Mara is ethically obligated to request the charges be dismissed. His failure to do this at this late date would indicate that he is either lying about the evidence or he’s grossly unethical and incompetent. Both scenarios would be mean its stupid to take what he says at face value. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5522 "2012-09-01T21:59:32Z")
[quote=“hmarvin, post:5520, topic:619125”] > [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > There were witnesses, even near the T, so they hadn’t all gone out. I doubt everyone was watching television with the lights out, or even had their curtains closed in the early evening. At any rate, it doesn’t explain why Trayvon Martin ended up near the T, where the dispatcher call indicated that Zimmerman had been minutes before the incident. Why would Martin be sitting under one of the porches when he could have been quickly home? Forgot to add Witness 6 said his porch light was on. Probably not the only one, IMO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=275) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=277)