# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 294
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5863 "2012-10-07T01:46:57Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Martin had every right to fight for his life. As did Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5864 "2012-10-07T01:49:02Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > According to the evidence,\*\* Martin didn’t touch his gun\*\*. How can there be a struggle for a weapon if the other person didn’t touch it? Now, Bricker has claimed that one can touch a weapon and not lay DNA on it - I doubt this and would be interested in seeing statistics on this. Even if this was the case, the evidence should be taken at face value or another round of testing (with more sensitivity) should be employed. But to sidestep the evidence and say, “LOL! There was a struggle for a weapon but I didn’t expect his DNA to be on there!!!11oneone” borders on absurd. I maintain the position that Trayvon Martin was the incarnation of [Jean Grey](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Grey). It’s only possible alternative. > > Given it’s the south, I don’t know what analytical techniques Florida is using but you can use PCR to amplify very, very small amounts of genetic material. Match the amplified DNA using Southern Blot, and BAM!, you got your culprit. > > - Honesty A struggle for the gun does not require that Martin touch it or touch it in a place that would leave DNA. On top of that Martin would have had to leave skin or a tangible amount of body fluid in order to produce DNA. This occurred during a light rain. So going from there it’s far from a certainty that DNA could be lifted from a fingerprint. [cite:](http://www.forensicdnacenter.com/resources/dna-fingerprint.html) “A number of scientific investigators have observed that DNA can be obtained from a wide array of fingerprints, but not all fingerprints give DNA profiles. The amount of DNA associated with a fingerprint will vary from person to person and can vary within the same person.” Putting all this aside, there is no question that Martin assaulted Zimmerman. What the prosecutor has to prove is that a man bloodied by a sustained attack was NOT in fear for his life. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5865 "2012-10-07T01:49:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > As did Zimmerman. as does the mugger, robber, and rapist too. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5866 "2012-10-07T01:51:56Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > as does the mugger, robber, and rapist too. Not according to Florida law. Unlike Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5867 "2012-10-07T01:52:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Putting all this aside, there is no question that Martin assaulted Zimmerman. Sure there are questions if Martin ‘assaulted’ Zimmerman. If Martin was defending himself against Zimmerman, than it most certainly wasn’t assault. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5868 "2012-10-07T01:53:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Not according to Florida law. Unlike Zimmerman. according to the reasoning of some posters here. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5869 "2012-10-07T01:59:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What the prosecutor has to prove is that a man bloodied by a sustained attack was NOT in fear for his life. What ‘sustained attack’? The only thing that was ‘sustained’ was Zimmerman’s hero complex and his pursuit of Martin. Again, please answer how Zimmerman’s injuries were consistent with a ‘sustained attack’? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5870 "2012-10-07T02:12:30Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > 1. I disagree. Zimmerman ‘started’ the fight. Again, let law enforcement go to work. Maybe he wanted to show the “lazy police” how it’s done. There’s no evidence that Zimmerman started the fight. There’s not a mark on Martin except below his knuckle which is the front of his fist. Zimmerman on the other hand has marks on his face and back of head. Suggesting Zimmerman wanted to show the police how it was done has no basis of fact. > [@betenoire39](#): > > Martin has every right to defend himself. He would if Zimmerman had assaulted him. > [@betenoire39](#): > > 1. Please listen to the call again. Zimmerman told them to call him. That’s when they asked him. If I am wrong about this, i will apologize to you, but I am certain this happened. I’m well aware of the call. I have it stored as a file. You asked why Zimmerman gave out his number and I told you. When asked where to meet with the police he asked them to call him when they got there. > [@betenoire39](#): > > Please read your post again. You are basically conceding that Zimmerman was still following him. He tried saying the same thing to Serino. Serino called him out and said, “no you were following him”. He was obviously following him when he got out of the car. He was told to stop and he agreed. It doesn’t stop him from keeping an eye out for him. It’s just common sense. It’s the entire point of calling the police. Zimmerman was a volunteer watching the neighborhood. He was standing on the same sidewalk he spoke to the police from when confronted. Not wandering around the area, the sidewalk. Martin had to come to him for any of this to occur. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5871 "2012-10-07T02:15:50Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > What ‘sustained attack’? the one we hear on the 911 call for which a number of people called the police over. The once that caused the injuries to Zimmerman. > [@betenoire39](#): > > The only thing that was ‘sustained’ was Zimmerman’s hero complex and his pursuit of Martin. That’s purely your speculation and bias and has no basis of fact. > [@betenoire39](#): > > Again, please answer how Zimmerman’s injuries were consistent with a ‘sustained attack’? They’re already documented. Do you think multiple people dialed the police because of a tickle fight? ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5872 "2012-10-07T02:16:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > A struggle for the gun does not require that Martin touch it or touch it in a place that would leave DNA. On top of that Martin would have had to leave skin or a tangible amount of body fluid in order to produce DNA. This occurred during a light rain. > > So going from there it’s far from a certainty that DNA could be lifted from a fingerprint. [cite:](http://www.forensicdnacenter.com/resources/dna-fingerprint.html) > > “A number of scientific investigators have observed that DNA can be obtained from a wide array of fingerprints, but not all fingerprints give DNA profiles. The amount of DNA associated with a fingerprint will vary from person to person and can vary within the same person.” > > Putting all this aside, there is no question that Martin assaulted Zimmerman. What the prosecutor has to prove is that a man bloodied by a sustained attack was NOT in fear for his life. We leave DNA all over the place, DNA is falling from your face in the form of shed skin - _right now_. It’s all over your keyboard and wherever you touch. Fingerprints leave DNA - ask anyone who has worked in a laboratory that measures DNA or RNA. If Trayvon Martin grabbed the gun, there should be DNA left over. There are two options: 1. Trayvon Martin’s DNA is on the gun but require a more sensitive analytical method to detect the DNA. 2. Trayvon Martin did not grab the gun. If the answer is #1, send the gun to biotech company for them to do a complete analysis. Until that happens, however, the evidence states that there is no DNA on the gun. How one struggles with a gun with another person without that person leaving a fingerprint on the said weapon conjures images of a _Dragonball Z_ or _X-men_ fighting scene. It must’ve been epic. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5873 "2012-10-07T02:27:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > 1. the one we hear on the 911 call for which a number of people called the police over. The once that caused the injuries to Zimmerman. > > 2.That’s purely your speculation and bias and has no basis of fact. > > 3.They’re already documented. Do you think multiple people dialed the police because of a tickle fight? 1. The calls came in from a fight that Martin was fighting for his in. 2. Sure. 3. What you said doesn’t even answer the question I posed. Again: Again, please answer how Zimmerman’s injuries were consistent with a ‘sustained attack’? This very issue has been in much dispute in this same thread. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5874 "2012-10-07T02:28:13Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Utter bull–“throw himself under Martin”. I never claimed such a thing. You claimed some theory of Zimmerman throwing Martin with an explanation to follow. I just assumed it explained how he ended up on the bottom. By all means, give us your theory and the evidence behind it. > [@betenoire39](#): > > We don’t have to start with Zimmerman’s phone call. How about surveillance video? Why did Zimmerman break his usual Sunday routine? His usual Sunday routine? What routine is he obligated to do on Sunday? ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5875 "2012-10-07T02:33:54Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > We leave DNA all over the place, DNA is falling from your face in the form of shed skin - _right now_. It’s all over your keyboard and wherever you touch. Fingerprints leave DNA - ask anyone who has worked in a laboratory that measures DNA or RNA. > > If Trayvon Martin grabbed the gun, there should be DNA left over. There are two options: > > 1. Trayvon Martin’s DNA is on the gun but require a more sensitive analytical method to detect the DNA. > > 2. Trayvon Martin did not grab the gun. > > If the answer is #1, send the gun to biotech company for them to do a complete analysis. Until that happens, however, the evidence states that there is no DNA on the gun. How one struggles with a gun with another person without that person leaving a fingerprint on the said weapon conjures images of a _Dragonball Z_ or _X-men_ fighting scene. It must’ve been epic. > > - Honesty I will take X-men. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5876 "2012-10-07T02:38:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > His usual Sunday routine? What routine is he obligated to do on Sunday? The routine of not following someone with a loaded gun and not killing him. That routine. Again, you’re missing the point. What made him break his usual routine? Who or what tipped him off about Martin, or you believe what he says? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5877 "2012-10-07T02:42:30Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > 1. The calls came in from a fight that Martin was fighting for his in. without a scratch except below a knuckle. The evidence shows Martin beat Zimmerman. This is not in dispute. He has marks on his face and head. > [@betenoire39](#): > > 1. What you said doesn’t even answer the question I posed. Again: > Again, please answer how Zimmerman’s injuries were consistent with a ‘sustained attack’? > > This very issue has been in much dispute in this same thread. There is no dispute that Zimmerman sustained injuries in the attack. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5878 "2012-10-07T02:48:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > without a scratch except below a knuckle. The evidence shows Martin beat Zimmerman. This is not in dispute. He has marks on his face and head. > > There is no dispute that Zimmerman sustained injuries in the attack. Enough with the strawmen. Again, please answer how Zimmerman’s injuries were consistent with a\*\* ‘sustained attack’\*\*? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5879 "2012-10-07T02:50:17Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > That is a curious statement. > So then, I will go out and put myself in Zimmerman’s position and end up shooting someone. > I will fully expect to be exonerated. > This is quite an interpretation of the law–and not the society I would like to live in. Since I have been following this case I realize that I have severely underestimated the ease of getting away with murder all these years. /scribbles up a “to do” list seriously, though that’s just a joke. really. But seriouslier still… I feel that I have been badly mislead by popular media. They had been so reliable about everything else… ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5880 "2012-10-07T02:57:43Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Since I have been following this case I realize that I have severely underestimated the ease of getting away with murder all these years. > /scribbles up a “to do” list > > seriously, though that’s just a joke. > really. > > But seriouslier still… > > I feel that I have been badly mislead by popular media. > They had been so reliable about everything else… Depends what media you have been paying attention to. The media that allowed me to see Zimmerman’s interviews and evidence dumps didn’t mislead me. That’s where critical thinking skills come in, though. Not just with this case, but for most things. I hear you, though. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5881 "2012-10-07T02:58:41Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > The routine of not following someone with a loaded gun and not killing him. > > That routine. > Again, you’re missing the point. What made him break his usual routine? Who or what tipped him off about Martin, or you believe what he says? If you’re asking why he called the police that is well documented. It has no bearing on what I believe or don’t believe. In his view he thought someone trespassing (in the rain) at a house that was previously burglarized warranted investigation. He did the proper thing and called the police. He went on to do the prudent thing and try to keep Martin in sight. It’s very helpful to police when eyewitnesses point out where suspects go. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5882 "2012-10-07T03:01:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If you’re asking why he called the police that is well documented. It has no bearing on what I believe or don’t believe. In his view he thought someone trespassing (in the rain) at a house that was previously burglarized warranted investigation. He did the proper thing and called the police. He went on to do the prudent thing and try to keep Martin in sight. It’s very helpful to police when eyewitnesses point out where suspects go. I am not asking why he called the cops. I am asking what tipped him off about Martin? How did he know Martin was in the area? When did he first encounter Martin? HOW? Shouldn’t he have been shopping that day? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=293) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=295)