# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 298
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5943 "2012-10-08T00:18:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Ah, you’re backing down from 2nd degree now? There is a possibility of a plea or an attached manslaughter charge. Include the manslaughter, and we have a bet. If I am wrong, you will get a money order in the mail. Simply PM me your address or PO box after the verdict, and you will have your money. I don’t see how the prosecution can fuck this up… ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5944 "2012-10-08T00:28:28Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The law clearly states that the original aggressor may use lethal force in self defence if they’ve exhausted all possibilities of retreat, and are in reasonable fear of death or serious injury. That’s not interpretation, it’s a plain reading of your cite > > Please explain how someone who is beneath another person, who is pounding their head into the ground, has the possibility of retreat. He had several opportunities to retreat–SEVERAL. He exhausted his opportunities BY HIS OWN CHOICE, NOT MARTIN’S. He choose not to, because he had to make this collar to show lazy Sanford PD “how it’s done”. He didn’t exhaust jackshit. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5945 "2012-10-08T01:07:32Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Trayvon was a suspect now? Suspect for what? What crime did he commit? The only reason Zimmerman thought he was suspicious was because (1) he was black and (2) he was talking on a bluetooth device. he was suspected of trespassing. He cut through the yard of a house (previously robbed) and was standing in the yard (in the rain) looking around. This was the suspicious activity that started the phone call. > [@Honesty](#): > > Zimmerman was not obliged to follow or keep Martin in sight so it was not a prudent thing, _it was a stupid thing_. _The dispatcher explicitly told him not to follow_. He was requested not to follow and he complied. I agree he was not obliged to keep Martin in sight but it was most certainly a prudent thing to do. It’s a valuable tool for officers to have eye witnesses who can direct them to where suspects are. > [@Honesty](#): > > Also, the evidence that **betenoire39** brings up about head trauma from the coroner’s report is fascinating. I’m on pins and needles waiting to hear how the peanut gallery explains that away. The Coroner didn’t list head trauma in the report: "The scalp is intact without contusions or lacerations. The calvarium is likewise intact without bony abnormalities or fractures. " > [@Honesty](#): > > Not that anyone cares but I want to reiterate my accusation that Zimmerman is a narcissist - it’s obvious from his media grandstanding, his interaction with women, lack of empathy and remorse, purported bullying of his colleagues, and a host of other factors. Narcissist are slippery to pin down precisely because they muddy the waters by giving specious but entirely plausible explanations for their behaviors. Which is exactly what he is doing now. Think about this: Say you kill someone in a middle of the woods and **no one saw the fight**. Why wouldn’t you save your ass and say that the dead man started it? That the dead man grabbed your gun, threatened you with death, assaulted you until your head was going to explode, and made you fear for your life until you had no choice but to end the victim’s life. If you’re guilty and you just killed someone, why wouldn’t you muddy the waters to deflect responsibility to the victim? Serious question. > > - Honesty Zimmerman’s story is consistent with the evidence. How is Zimmerman a narcissist? what media grandstanding? ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5946 "2012-10-08T01:19:14Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The Coroner didn’t list head trauma in the report: "The scalp is intact without contusions or lacerations. The calvarium is likewise intact without bony abnormalities or fractures. " Global edema was listed. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5947 "2012-10-08T01:29:32Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > He had several opportunities to retreat–SEVERAL. > > He exhausted his opportunities BY HIS OWN CHOICE, NOT MARTIN’S. cite your evidence that he escaped from Martin’s attack and could have retreated. > [@betenoire39](#): > > He choose not to, because he had to make this collar to show lazy Sanford PD “how it’s done”. cite the Sanford Police Department is lazy. This is just pure slander on your part. They were minutes from arriving at the scene. Seems like they got there pretty quick. > [@betenoire39](#): > > He didn’t exhaust jackshit. Cite there was an indication Martin was going to stop. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5948 "2012-10-08T01:31:46Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Global edema was listed. That’s not head trauma. What evidence is there that the head was struck, punched, wacked, smacked, skinned, flayed, punctured, cut, abraised or otherwise harmed in any way by Zimmerman? ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5949 "2012-10-08T01:36:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s not head trauma. What evidence is there that the head was struck, punched, wacked, smacked, skinned, flayed, punctured, cut, abraised or otherwise harmed in any way by Zimmerman? Let’s talk edema then. Where did it come from? At what point did Martin sustain this injury…because it IS an injury. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5950 "2012-10-08T01:41:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > cite your evidence that he escaped from Martin’s attack and could have retreated. > cite the Sanford Police Department is lazy. This is just pure slander on your part. They were minutes from arriving at the scene. Seems like they got there pretty quick. > > Cite there was an indication Martin was going to stop. martin’s attack…yeah. whatever. Where the hell are the injuries that would conform to having your head “pounded into the pavement” for over a minute? Zimmerman was remarkably calm afterwards. Sanford’s PD being lazy was said by Zimmerman–at an earlier date. I think you want to check your use of the word “slander” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5951 "2012-10-08T01:55:45Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > martin’s attack…yeah. whatever. > > Where the hell are the injuries that would conform to having your head “pounded into the pavement” for over a minute? cite Zimmerman claimed his head was pounded in the the pavement for over a minute. > [@betenoire39](#): > > Zimmerman was remarkably calm afterwards. I would think shooting someone would be a traumatic experience causing shock. > [@betenoire39](#): > > Sanford’s PD being lazy was said by Zimmerman–at an earlier date. I think you want to check your use of the word “slander” no I don’t. I’m not going to argue with you over the word. You know exactly what I meant. You’re statement had no basis of fact. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5952 "2012-10-08T02:01:14Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > There is a possibility of a plea or an attached manslaughter charge. Why would the prosecution agree to a plea if they have (as you think) a solid murder-2 case? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5953 "2012-10-08T02:02:06Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Let’s talk edema then. > > Where did it come from? At what point did Martin sustain this injury…because it IS an injury. Yes, it is an injury. Does Zimmerman have Telekinetic powers? Or would swelling occur from trauma to the vascular system as a result of a gun shot followed by the force of chest compressions by paramedics. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5954 "2012-10-08T02:02:28Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > He had several opportunities to retreat–SEVERAL. At the time immediately prior to the shot he had no opportunity to retreat. That’s what the law addresses. If you don’t believe me, ask Bricker. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5955 "2012-10-08T02:37:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > At the time immediately prior to the shot he had no opportunity to retreat. That’s what the law addresses. If you don’t believe me, ask Bricker. Again, don’t PUT YOURSELF IN THAT SITUATION. Simple. Wait for the damn cops at the club house as he initially wanted to do. Tell the damn kid “Hey relax, neighborhood watch”. You mean to tell me that jurors (assuming a trial) won’t be looking at these things? Isn’t there something called a reasonable person standard? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5956 "2012-10-08T02:42:11Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Again, don’t PUT YOURSELF IN THAT SITUATION. Simple. Again, don’t attack strangers in the street even if you think they are “creepy” and followed you. Simple. But we’re talking about the law. The law already took care of the “put yourself in that situation” thing by making a provision where the defendant is the “aggressor”. And even in that circumstance, the law still says he is entitled to be defending himself, including with lethal force. If you’re saying the jurors, when deciding this case, will ignore the law - maybe, but I wouldn’t count on it. Not everyone is as dismissive of the law as you are. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5957 "2012-10-08T02:48:59Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Again, don’t PUT YOURSELF IN THAT SITUATION. Simple. How is Zimmerman suppose to know there’s a situation? He wasn’t doing anything wrong. Martin knew he was watching him and the evidence shows he brought the situation to Zimmerman. The phone call narrates everything that happened and Zimmerman loses sight of Martin. He never leaves the sidewalk. The person who put himself in the situation that got himself killed was Martin. > [@betenoire39](#): > > Wait for the damn cops at the club house as he initially wanted to do. That would be a complete waste of time. > [@betenoire39](#): > > Tell the damn kid “Hey relax, neighborhood watch”. You’re right. And Martin could have said “Hey relax, I live right over there”. Except Martin didn’t give him a chance. Based on Dee Dee’s phone call it started after Zimmerman spoke. > [@betenoire39](#): > > You mean to tell me that jurors (assuming a trial) won’t be looking at these things? > > Isn’t there something called a reasonable person standard? No, the jury will not be looking at legal activity that occurred prior to the assault. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5958 "2012-10-08T12:15:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Martin knew he was watching him and the evidence shows he brought the situation to Zimmerman. Before any altercation, Martin was already behind the houses and Zimmerman was in his car. Considering Martin was killed behind the houses, how is that Martin bringing the situation to Zimmerman? ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5959 "2012-10-08T13:20:35Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Before any altercation, Martin was already behind the houses and Zimmerman was in his car. > > Considering Martin was killed behind the houses, how is that Martin bringing the situation to Zimmerman? Thank you..my goodness. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5960 "2012-10-08T13:58:08Z")
[This guy really has an interesting theory:](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miZUMbzTBHA&feature=share&list=ULmiZUMbzTBHA) He claims that Zimmerman entered the house of W11…he says clicking sounds on the 911 tape sound like porch doors opening. He also claims that this scenario matches up with the timeline of him approaching Martin–he also says that the porch lights coming on is a dead giveaway. Very fascinating stuff. What do you guys think, especially\*\* monstro\*\* and **you with the face** (I already know what the others will say lol). ? ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5961 "2012-10-08T13:59:51Z")
**Also, any medical people out there, can we PLEASE have a discussion about Martin’s global edema?** I think this is extremely important. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/5962 "2012-10-08T14:10:50Z")
[This guy is really killing it…never thought of it like that.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP2UC0aCUnE&feature=BFa&list=ULUXSM3Dtykt8) responses? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=297) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=299)