# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 320
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6383 "2012-10-22T22:58:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > well lets look at that. A bouncer dealing with an unruly customer versus a kid starting fights. One is doing a functional job. The other is not. How do you know the customer was unruly? And even if she was, disproportionate reactions are hardly commendable. > [@Magiver](#): > > Where are you getting this narrative? There’s no reference to anyone smoking, the side of the house, Listen to all his interviews carefully. It’s in there. > [@Magiver](#): > > a well known shortcut, Common knowledge on the estate, I think you’d find. > [@Magiver](#): > > or rampant black burglars. That’s the impression Z and his friend Frank Taafe would have us believe. > [@Magiver](#): > > Zimmerman states there was a person standing in the front lawn of the property of a recently burglarized house, in the rain, looking around. It was suspicious activity and he did exactly what he should have done and that’s to call the police. He didn’t call the police, he called a NEN. Although why he’d do that when he had no intention of following their advice, seems a little puzzling. He may as well have just cut to the chase and called the police immediately, if he was so sure of his suspicions. A more rational person might have held off phoning anyone until he’d at least done his neighbourhood watch duty and asked this stranger what he was doing in the area. > [@Magiver](#): > > The worst thing he did was try to keep Martin in sight. This is how burglars are caught, by people calling the police and watching them. I’ve caught 2 burglars (single robbery) and stopped another 2 robberies by doing exactly what he did. The first thing the police ask for when they arrive is a description of what was seen and where the suspicious person is or what direction did they go. If all they have to go on when they arrive is the Dispatcher’s recap then it’s down to “suspicious person wandering about”. They might as well have not wasted the gas. And Z may as well have not wasted the price of a phone call if he was not going to listen to any advice that was given. > [@Magiver](#): > > A sucker punch isn’t much better. Rather convenient for Z that TM wasn’t a totally sneaky kind of person and gave his victim a chance to face his attacker. The ease with which Martin got close enough to hit Z is remarkable, considering how psyched up you’d expect Z to be for such an eventuality. > [@Magiver](#): > > He was trespassing. There is no such thing as a “recognized short cut” in the eye’s of the law. I don’t begin to know what orifice you pulled that from. Go on, tell me how many Retreat residents have been arrested for using that gap between the two houses. > [@Magiver](#): > > there is clear evidence that Zimmerman was attacked and that the back of his head sustained injuries consistent with his account. No, there is clear evidence that Z was injured somehow, and the injuries are far from consistent with his account. The Assertion Game is great, isn’t it? > [@Magiver](#): > > Zimmerman didn’t report a “short cut”. He said Martin was standing in the rain, on the property, looking around. A property that was recently broken into. I think you’ll find that the property he was stood in front of(something he’d have to be doing at some point, if he was heading home via that route) was Z’s friend Frank’s, and it hadn’t been burgled, Z had just seen a suspicious black guy smoking a cig beside the house and there was a window and a door open, so he had to be up to no good. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6384 "2012-10-22T23:03:35Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > I know. > That’s a real game changer there. If you can’t get the really simple and obvious stuff correct, what chance do you have of dealing with something complicated? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6385 "2012-10-22T23:34:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Actually Zimmerman did see Martin commit a crime. He saw him trespassing (in the rain and at night) at a house that had recently been burglarized which made him suspicious enough to call the police. Huh?? Unless I have missed some really interesting developments, how can you suggest Martin was trespassing? Was he seen inside a house? ETA: > [@Magiver](#): > > A sucker punch isn’t much better. > He was trespassing. There is no such thing as a “recognized short cut” in the eye’s of the law. I don’t begin to know what orifice you pulled that from. > there is clear evidence that Zimmerman was attacked and that the back of his head sustained injuries consistent with his account. > > Zimmerman didn’t report a “short cut”. He said Martin was standing in the rain, on the property, looking around. A property that was recently broken into. Ahhhh. No, that’s not trespassing, at least not in the criminal sense. There no fences or warning signs. A person walking across the lawn could do so in full view of the Chief of Police and not get arrested. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6386 "2012-10-22T23:40:59Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > How do you know the customer was unruly? And even if she was, disproportionate reactions are hardly commendable. no they’re not commendable. He was fired over it. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Listen to all his interviews carefully. It’s in there. no, it’s not > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Common knowledge on the estate, I think you’d find. It’s trespassing. What part of this do you not understand? it’s illegal. Standing next to a house in the rain at night looking around is suspicious. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > That’s the impression Z and his friend Frank Taafe would have us believe. No, it’s not. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > He didn’t call the police, he called a NEN. Although why he’d do that when he had no intention of following their advice, seems a little puzzling. He may as well have just cut to the chase and called the police immediately, if he was so sure of his suspicions. A more rational person might have held off phoning anyone until he’d at least done his neighbourhood watch duty and asked this stranger what he was doing in the area. He called the police. He followed the Dispatcher’s request. Cite the rationale behind confronting a suspected burglar. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > And Z may as well have not wasted the price of a phone call if he was not going to listen to any advice that was given. He followed the request of the Dispatcher. Cite otherwise. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Rather convenient for Z that TM wasn’t a totally sneaky kind of person and gave his victim a chance to face his attacker. The ease with which Martin got close enough to hit Z is remarkable, considering how psyched up you’d expect Z to be for such an eventuality. Zimmerman was heading back toward his car. Martin came from behind him. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Go on, tell me how many Retreat residents have been arrested for using that gap between the two houses. Cite that it’s not trespassing. If you feel you’re entitled to trespass on other people’s property because someone else does then that’s your cross to bear but it doesn’t change the narrative. . Zimmerman never mentions the cut through. He says the suspect is in the front yard. You’re trying to create an argument where non exists. Start a another thread if you want your conscience assuaged > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > No, there is clear evidence that Z was injured somehow, and the injuries are far from consistent with his account. The Assertion Game is great, isn’t it? There is no assertion being made. He has injuries to the back of his head that are consistent with his account. If you believe space aliens came down and caused the injuries immediately after the confrontation that’s your opinion but it doesn’t change the consistency of his story. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > I think you’ll find that the property he was stood in front of(something he’d have to be doing at some point, if he was heading home via that route) was Z’s friend Frank’s, and it hadn’t been burgled, Z had just seen a suspicious black guy smoking a cig beside the house and there was a window and a door open, so he had to be up to no good. OK, I’ll bite, did Frank credit him with stopping a burglary or does he normally leave his window and door open when not at home? Because stopping a burglary means just that. He stopped it from occurring and the open window and door was evidence of the event. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6387 "2012-10-22T23:56:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, that’s not trespassing, at least not in the criminal sense. There no fences or warning signs. A person walking across the lawn could do so in full view of the Chief of Police and not get arrested. Not where I live. I’ve witnessed police threaten arrest if the person didn’t leave. If you’re on someone’s property, you are trespassing. [At least in my state.](http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2911.21) 2911.21 Criminal trespass. (A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following: (1) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another; Zimmerman saw someone doing something suspicious and he did the right thing. He called the police. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6388 "2012-10-23T00:28:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, that’s not trespassing, at least not in the criminal sense. There no fences or warning signs. A person walking across the lawn could do so in full view of the Chief of Police and not get arrested. And before you go on a legal tangent I’m not suggesting Martin would have been arrested for trespassing. I understand your point. I merely indicated that he WAS trespassing. It’s suspicious to have people standing next to a house looking around. It’s more so when it’s dark and raining. It would be suspicious if he was standing in the street doing this but more so when trespassing. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6389 "2012-10-23T00:33:35Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If you can’t get the really simple and obvious stuff correct, what chance do you have of dealing with something complicated? What the hell does that have to do with your initial correction of me? Talk about “reasoning”. Complete non-sequitur. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6390 "2012-10-23T00:47:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Not where I live. I’ve witnessed police threaten arrest if the person didn’t leave. > > If you’re on someone’s property, you are trespassing. [At least in my state.](http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2911.21) > > 2911.21 Criminal trespass. > > (A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following: > > (1) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another; R.C. 2901.01(L) defines “privilege” as “\* \* \* an immunity, license, or right conferred by law, or \*\*bestowed by express or implied grant, \*\*or arising out of status, position, office, or relationship, or growing out of necessity.” If a property owner acquises in a shortcut, it will be well-nigh impossible to argue that, without notice, the implied grant of permission has suddenly vanished. > [@](#): > > Zimmerman saw someone doing something suspicious and he did the right thing. He called the police. Sure. But that does not transform Martin’s act into criminal trespass. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6391 "2012-10-23T00:49:39Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And before you go on a legal tangent I’m not suggesting Martin would have been arrested for trespassing. I understand your point. I merely indicated that he WAS trespassing. > > It’s suspicious to have people standing next to a house looking around. It’s more so when it’s dark and raining. It would be suspicious if he was standing in the street doing this but more so when trespassing. And I said he wasn’t criminally trespassing. Which he wasn’t. If you mean merely to indicate he was standing on property owned by another person, I obviously agree. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6392 "2012-10-23T00:49:52Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Less than one burglary a month doesn’t sound like much of a crime wave to me. How many times would you say a community should be burglarized before they have legitimate concerns over the issue? The reason Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch was that they had a meeting to discuss what they could do about the crimes (burglary, shootings, etc.) in their community. Zimmerman volunteered, and they accepted him. As mentioned, Zimmerman had stopped a possible burglary in progress some time before the incident. It sounds like more than something that can be waved away, at least to me. > [@](#): > > You seem to consider Z’s testimony as evidence, whereas I suggest it is the disembling of a man with everything to lose if he admits the truth. No I don’t it as evidence. I consider the evidence to be evidence, and I believe Zimmerman’s statement to be truthful to the degree that it is backed up by evidence. No more. Others seem to believe that evidence doesn’t matter, and dismiss it out of hand. > [@](#): > > There’s no conclusive evidence that Z was attacked the way he says he was, but that doesn’t seem to concern you. No, this is false. I have laid out the evidence that backs up Zimmerman’s account several times already. > [@](#): > > He may as well have just cut to the chase and called the police immediately, if he was so sure of his suspicions. He did call the police immediately. > [@](#): > > A more rational person might have held off phoning anyone until he’d at least done his neighbourhood watch duty and asked this stranger what he was doing in the area. Wrong again. Zimmerman did what he should have done. First you want to fault Zimmerman for confronting Martin, then for not confronting him. Could you make your mind up? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6393 "2012-10-23T01:46:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > R.C. 2901.01(L) defines “privilege” as “\* \* \* an immunity, license, or right conferred by law, or \*\*bestowed by express or implied grant, \*\*or arising out of status, position, office, or relationship, or growing out of necessity.” > > If a property owner acquises in a shortcut, it will be well-nigh impossible to argue that, without notice, the implied grant of permission has suddenly vanished. I’m not going to get into a huge argument but short of building the Berlin Wall you can’t stop someone from cutting through a property. If someone does this knowingly, it’s trespassing. It’s clear in this instance that it’s private property. There’s no ambiguity involved. I don’t see evidence where the property owner had given permission for people to cut through the property. It’s a gated community. the test is simple. If the owner calls the police and the subject refuses to leave, they arrest him for trespassing. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6394 "2012-10-23T02:13:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m not going to get into a huge argument but short of building the Berlin Wall you can’t stop someone from cutting through a property. If someone does this knowingly, it’s trespassing. It’s clear in this instance that it’s private property. There’s no ambiguity involved. I don’t see evidence where the property owner had given permission for people to cut through the property. It’s a gated community. > > the test is simple. If the owner calls the police and the subject refuses to leave, they arrest him for trespassing. Yes. Because at that point the subject has been notified that his privilege to be on the property has been withdrawn. In your opinion, could the police simply wait for a person to walk across the property, arrest the person for trespass, and get a conviction? ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6395 "2012-10-23T03:04:21Z")
I’m just glad that the situation is being investigated. The initial media reports (while admittedly sensationalized) sure painted a questionable situation at the least. My opinion is that had neither party been carrying a gun, nobody would be dead today. Had Zimmerman not been packing he would have let the cops do their job and stayed hands off as he was advised to, instead of being emboldened by having a weapon. I support CCW permits for people responsible enough to use them appropriately, but that’s something that can never, ever be completely controlled. Idiots can and will get CCWs and will also carry illegally. That leads to more dead people, for right or wrong. That’s why a lot of people support gun control, because of the idiots. If it were only well trained, and level headed people carrying, there would be far less of a problem, but that’s not really something that can be tested for, or legislated for effectively. IMO of course. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6396 "2012-10-23T03:18:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. Because at that point the subject has been notified that his privilege to be on the property has been withdrawn. > > In your opinion, could the police simply wait for a person to walk across the property, arrest the person for trespass, and get a conviction? arrest? absolutely, conviction is a quagmire of discussion that would generally end in “no”. a fenced area indicates a delineated space with the intent to keep people out. A sidewalk to a door is decidedly less so. A gate cutting off the sidewalk and completing the fenced in area is probably the line in the sand. Are you disagreeing with the definition of trespassing I posted earlier or just wish to argue conviction rates? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6397 "2012-10-23T11:01:13Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If you can’t get the really simple and obvious stuff correct, what chance do you have of dealing with something complicated? If you get caught up looking at a tree, how will you see the forest? It’s really a niggling insignificant detail. Kudos on you for keeping it straight, though. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6398 "2012-10-23T11:13:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > no they’re not commendable. He was fired over it. Hurrah, we finally agree on something. > [@Magiver](#): > > no, it’s not Yes, it is. > [@Magiver](#): > > It’s trespassing. What part of this do you not understand? it’s illegal. Standing next to a house in the rain at night looking around is suspicious. Z had only just arrived at that spot - how would he have known he’d been standing around in the rain looking about him with covetous eyes? If he stopped when Z saw him, it’s highly likely to be because some strange dude had just parked his car over the road and was giving him the eyeball treatment. > [@Magiver](#): > > No, it’s not. We’re right back into disagreement territory again. > [@Magiver](#): > > He called the police. He followed the Dispatcher’s request. Cite the rationale behind confronting a suspected burglar. He had no valid reason to suspect anyone of being a burglar at that point. Martin’s “suspicious behaviour” was a product of Z’s mind, not TM’s actions. Or are you one of these people who think TM _was_ up to no good, and Z came along just in time? > [@Magiver](#): > > He followed the request of the Dispatcher. Cite otherwise. Debatable. Listen to the NEN call. He didn’t slow down immediately so it’s questionable as to whether he followed the dispatcher’s advice. > [@Magiver](#): > > Zimmerman was heading back toward his car. Martin came from behind him. Beyond Z’s say so, you have no proof of this and neither does the defence. > [@Magiver](#): > > Cite that it’s not trespassing. If you feel you’re entitled to trespass on other people’s property because someone else does then that’s your cross to bear but it doesn’t change the narrative. . Zimmerman never mentions the cut through. He says the suspect is in the front yard. You’re trying to create an argument where non exists. Start a another thread if you want your conscience assuaged I don’t need to cite anything. If someone is walking between two houses and hasn’t climbed over any fences, does it depend on whose house he walks nearest to when it comes to who has the right to charge for trespass? Zimmerman never mentions the cut-through because that would take away all the ordinariness of what TM was doing. > [@Magiver](#): > > There is no assertion being made. He has injuries to the back of his head that are consistent with his account. If you believe space aliens came down and caused the injuries immediately after the confrontation that’s your opinion but it doesn’t change the consistency of his story. The consistency of his story comes apart when a head that has been slammed repeatedly - let’s say at least twice - has injuries that amount to a couple of slight abrasions and not a single lump to go with them. > [@Magiver](#): > > OK, I’ll bite, did Frank credit him with stopping a burglary or does he normally leave his window and door open when not at home? Because stopping a burglary means just that. He stopped it from occurring and the open window and door was evidence of the event. An open door and window sounds contrary to what I’d expect in a crime-plagued neighbourhood. From what I’ve seen of Frank, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d been sat indoors with his weapon of choice just waiting for a black head to pop through one of the intentionally left open entrances to his property, but that’s another avenue entirely. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6399 "2012-10-23T11:27:26Z")
Guys, the Retreat at Twin Lakes is a condo/rental development, where the dwellings are owned/rented, and the grounds are shared community property. Look it up: the specs for individual units will list no lot line. Thus, as a house guest of a resident, Trayvon had as much right to cut through that shortcut as he did to walk on the sidewalk. Also, may I point out that there was a person, a young black male, arrested and convicted of at least one of the local break-ins? This person was already in custody at the time of the shooting. If Zimmerman was connecting Martin to those past crimes, he must have believed that Martin was a confederate of the known burglar, and that Martin was stupid enough to come back to the place where his buddy got popped. As far as the burglaries and shootings that **Shodan** referred to, I am not aware of any shootings connected with the Retreat except this one. I am sure that Sanford occasionally does have a shooting, after all, the town averages three murders a year. But no one including Zimmerman has referenced any past shootings. ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6400 "2012-10-23T11:37:35Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Not really. If he’d been where he said he had, his vehicle would have been in direct line of sight and he wouldn’t have needed any illumination to head back towards it. > > Whatever for? It’s not like he’d seen TM commit any crime. He can tell everyone that he just wanted to keep his suspect in sight, but if TM _had_ ran and Zimmerman then pursued to “keep him in sight,” TM is not going to know that Z’s intentions are innocent of any malice. > > There’s a lot of maybe’s that need to be accepted as definitely’s if you want to believe Zimmerman’s tale. > > Prudence is the last trait I’d associate with George Zimmerman. You kind of made the point for us.. too much speculation surrounding the query you posed, and it’s unable to sufficiently conclude IF Zimmerman wasn’t where he said he was. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6401 "2012-10-23T11:53:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > How many times would you say a community should be burglarized before they have legitimate concerns over the issue? Obviously, one is too many, but realistically, on an estate with more than 50 houses, that is supposedly being overran by criminals, a burglary almost every 2 mths doesn’t seem too outrageous. I suppose we’d need to know the burglary rate for the previous 14 mth to broaden the discussion and see if things were getting worse or better. > [@Shodan](#): > > The reason Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch was that they had a meeting to discuss what they could do about the crimes (burglary, shootings, etc.) in their community. Zimmerman volunteered, and they accepted him. As mentioned, Zimmerman had stopped a possible burglary in progress some time before the incident. I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that he got involved because his wife was threatened by a dog, or was that the reason he got his gun? You can believe his intentions were noble if you want, but I just wonder what kind of man gets a gun because there’s a dog running loose on the estate. > [@Shodan](#): > > It sounds like more than something that can be waved away, at least to me. I’m not “waving it away,” just suggesting that Z was prone to exaggerating the level of threat. > [@Shodan](#): > > No I don’t it as evidence. I consider the evidence to be evidence, and I believe Zimmerman’s statement to be truthful to the degree that it is backed up by evidence. No more. Others seem to believe that evidence doesn’t matter, and dismiss it out of hand. Which piece of evidence do you think is ignored the most? > [@Shodan](#): > > No, this is false. I have laid out the evidence that backs up Zimmerman’s account several times already. What in his narrative rings most true for you? > [@Shodan](#): > > He did call the police immediately. He called someone working on behalf of the police. Apparently, dispatchers have no authority at all and can only forward your message for you. > [@Shodan](#): > > Wrong again. Zimmerman did what he should have done. Yes, his responses were textbook apart from that dead kid at the end. > [@Shodan](#): > > First you want to fault Zimmerman for confronting Martin, then for not confronting him. Could you make your mind up? > > Regards, > Shodan I have. He should have confronted him in the most well-lit spot along the route he was following TM, for his own safety, or just in case his suspicions were wrong, but that never seemed to enter Z’s head. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6402 "2012-10-23T12:09:34Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > What in his narrative rings most true for you? The parts backed up by evidence. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=319) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=321)