# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 334
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6663 "2012-10-29T23:03:45Z")
This is the report I have seen this report. Also complaining of [left Sl joint tenderness _ **since the event** _](http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/zimmerman_bond_hearing_exhibits/george_zimmerman_medical_report.pdf). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6664 "2012-10-29T23:23:32Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > If Z made the call at the clubhouse and left his engine running, could we expect to hear it? What about when it’s moving? When TM passed him at the clubhouse, he’d have had to make at least 2 gear changes to continue following him around onto Twin Trees Lane. Is this a testament to the silence of Z’s 4x4’s engine and transmission? Do you just start typing when any random thought occurs to you? And before you bother with an actual theory I’m just going to point out that you normally don’t hear a lot of background noise in a cell phone unless the mic is pointed at the noise. They’re designed to be highly directional and tuned to the frequency of the human voice. That way people can hear you when you talk. Note how quiet the “key in the ignition” alarm sounds. This is going to be much louder than a running engine. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6665 "2012-10-29T23:23:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Dee Dee has all the verbal skills of a 7 year old and that’s being kind. I’ve read her testimony at least 30 times. It’s impossible to follow any coherent line of thought from her. As to what to believe or not believe that’s a function of logic. If she remembers something Martin said she won’t know the exact words but probably is close to recalling his general conversation. If he said he was at a store then we can conclude he was referring to the 7-eleven. If she heard him say he ran to the “mail thing” he’s probably talking about the mail kiosk next to the community Center. But when she says she hears “grass” then that’s an interpretation of the sounds she heard. So to summarize, her testimony about what was said to her is probably more relevant than her interpretation of sounds. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that having been listening to Trayvon talking and walking for a while on both concrete and grass surfaces, she might have been able to tell the difference? > [@Magiver](#): > > And yes, there are no inconsistencies in Z’s description of the major points of his version of events. Take 15 minutes out of your busy schedule and have a listen to [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k07wZIU1siM). > [@Magiver](#): > > uh huh. You can’t be bothered with your last theory and you want us to jump to your next one. When all the cards have been played on the table I’ll elaborate on my theory, if necessary. > [@Magiver](#): > > He doesn’t say it in a lower voice, he’s talked over on the recording by the Dispatcher. He’s talking to the Dispatcher. Are you saying the dispatcher raised his voice, or are you denying Z lowered his to a very muted level, unlike any it had been throughout the previous call time? And, even if he was saying it to the dispatcher, would these be the same keys that were found on the grass with a mini-torch attached? > [@Magiver](#): > > Yet again you’ve thrown something on the wall to see if it sticks and left out the relevance or theory to discuss. Is this relevant enough for you? > [@](#): > > If Z made the call at the clubhouse and left his engine running, could we expect to hear it? What about when it’s moving? When TM passed him at the clubhouse, he’d have had to make at least 2 gear changes to continue following him around onto Twin Trees Lane. Is this a testament to the silence of Z’s 4x4’s engine and transmission? Btw, none of those demanding evidence and facts from me and others have yet shown any beyond Z’s testimony that he parked his vehicle where he said he did. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6666 "2012-10-29T23:27:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you just start typing when any random thought occurs to you? Does it matter? I don’t see any real organisation to this thread, so what is it to you? Do you spend a lot of time getting irate about other people’s posting habits? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6667 "2012-10-29T23:31:26Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Is it beyond the realm of possibility that having been listening to Trayvon talking and walking for a while on both concrete and grass surfaces, she might have been able to tell the difference? What shoes was he wearing? If they had cuban heels or similar, it’s marginally possible she could have heard the difference. Otherwise, it is indeed beyond the realm of possibility. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6668 "2012-10-29T23:34:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m just going to point out that you normally don’t hear a lot of background noise in a cell phone unless the mic is pointed at the noise. They’re designed to be highly directional and tuned to the frequency of the human voice. That way people can hear you when you talk. Note how quiet the “key in the ignition” alarm sounds. This is going to be much louder than a running engine. It picked up plenty of external noise after he’d got out of the vehicle. How come we didn’t hear him accelerate a little when he saw TM begin to run and where was the sound of his brakes as he came to a halt? Perhaps you, with your superior audio knowledge, can pinpoint the exact spot in his nen call when his brakes were applied? ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6669 "2012-10-29T23:38:05Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > What shoes was he wearing? If they had cuban heels or similar, it’s marginally possible she could have heard the difference. Otherwise, it is indeed beyond the realm of possibility. I like your confidence. None of that farting around doing experiments and guff like that, just state an opinion and stick with it. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6670 "2012-10-29T23:45:50Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > I like your confidence. None of that farting around doing experiments and guff like that, just state an opinion and stick with it. I’ll rely on my life experience of walking on various surfaces in various footwear. If you think that shoes that are quiet whilst walking on concrete somehow magically make a sound through a phone, I think the burden of proof is on you… extraordinary claims and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6671 "2012-10-30T00:07:54Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > It picked up plenty of external noise after he’d got out of the vehicle. you mean wind noise? yep. when the wind blows over the mic you hear it. Anything else in the line of sight of the mic gets picked up. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > How come we didn’t hear him accelerate a little when he saw TM begin to run and where was the sound of his brakes as he came to a halt? Perhaps you, with your superior audio knowledge, can pinpoint the exact spot in his nen call when his brakes were applied? The sound of his brakes when he came to a halt? what kind of hillbilly car do you drive? If the engine noise isn’t picked up why would you hear the brakes? And what relevance does this have to the case? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6672 "2012-10-30T00:13:56Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Does it matter? I don’t see any real organisation to this thread, so what is it to you? Do you spend a lot of time getting irate about other people’s posting habits? well you’ve been repeatedly asked to back up your theories or for that matter, even have a theory. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6673 "2012-10-30T00:24:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > you mean wind noise? yep. when the wind blows over the mic you hear it. Anything else in the line of sight of the mic gets picked up. > > The sound of his brakes when he came to a halt? what kind of hillbilly car do you drive? If the engine noise isn’t picked up why would you hear the brakes? And what relevance does this have to the case? You think there is no relevance in establishing where Z was at every point during his nen call? Is his reenactment also just a pointless exercise that shouldn’t really be paid much mind to? Have you come across any confirmation of where he parked up yet? ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6674 "2012-10-30T00:39:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > well you’ve been repeatedly asked to back up your theories or for that matter, even have a theory. If I was prosecuting Z, first I’d be working on ruling out the theory that Z had help on the night and had been riding around longer than he said before he called the dispatcher. That the idea was to catch themselves a Goon before the police showed up and if it turned out nasty for the Goon, why, they’d figure something out, if they hadn’t already established a plan. Then I could rest easy that I hadn’t got it wrong and missed out on a murder 1 charge. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6675 "2012-10-30T00:47:25Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > You think there is no relevance in establishing where Z was at every point during his nen call? Is his reenactment also just a pointless exercise that shouldn’t really be paid much mind to? Have you come across any confirmation of where he parked up yet? Ah cool. A “grassy knoll” conspiracy theorist… ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6676 "2012-10-30T00:53:12Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Ah cool. A “grassy knoll” conspiracy theorist… I get it. The only details that matter are how scared poor, innocent Georgie-boy was when this terrifying thug attacked him for no reason Innocent George could have imagined. Do you even accept that he should face his days in court or do you think that is a travesty, too? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6677 "2012-10-30T00:57:04Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > You think there is no relevance in establishing where Z was at every point during his nen call? No, none. Unless you have a theory that is relevant to the fight and evidence to back up that theory then it’s not going to be heard in court. You can’t make shit up. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Is his reenactment also just a pointless exercise that shouldn’t really be paid much mind to? Have you come across any confirmation of where he parked up yet? Not looking for confirmation of where he parked his car. Not relevant. Don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6678 "2012-10-30T00:59:58Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > If I was prosecuting Z, first I’d be working on ruling out the theory that Z had help on the night and had been riding around longer than he said before he called the dispatcher. That the idea was to catch themselves a Goon before the police showed up and if it turned out nasty for the Goon, why, they’d figure something out, if they hadn’t already established a plan. Then I could rest easy that I hadn’t got it wrong and missed out on a murder 1 charge. “Catch themselves a Goon”? you’re now working on a conspiracy theory? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6679 "2012-10-30T01:00:20Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > I get it. The only details that matter are how scared poor, innocent Georgie-boy was when this terrifying thug attacked him for no reason Innocent George could have imagined. Do you even accept that he should face his days in court or do you think that is a travesty, too? I responded to the wrong post. I called you a “grassy knoll” conspiracy theorist because of your constant hints that someone else was involved, and because on your insistence, in spite of complete lack of evidence, that Zimmerman went out of the house that night to hunt blacks and kill them. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6680 "2012-10-30T01:11:39Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > I get it. The only details that matter are how scared poor, innocent Georgie-boy was when this terrifying thug attacked him for no reason Innocent George could have imagined. Yes, as childish as your description of the case is, you’re correct. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Do you even accept that he should face his days in court or do you think that is a travesty, too? Yes. Do you accept that you can’t make shit up in court to see if sticks to the wall? ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6681 "2012-10-30T01:23:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, none. Unless you have a theory that is relevant to the fight and evidence to back up that theory then it’s not going to be heard in court. You can’t make shit up. So, if it was proven that Z was the one making shit up in his account prior to the fight starting - like say for instance, his car was actually parked further down Twin Trees Lane than he said - you’d still be okay with believing his account of how the struggle started, progressed, and ended? > [@Magiver](#): > > Not looking for confirmation of where he parked his car. Not relevant. Don’t care. How wouldn’t the above be relevant? It’d change the whole context of the encounter if Z had parked ahead of TM’s last seen heading direction and had used the break between the houses to get ahead of TM. The time between the end of his nen call and the encounter beginning when the raised voices were heard, could easily have been taken up by Z waiting in the shadows for TM to come towards him, and then when he realised that wasn’t happening, him walking up towards the top of the T until TM came out from hiding and asked Z what his problem was. Now, without knowing for certain where the car was parked, why would you believe Z’s version over mine? Because evidence was conveniently scattered about to suggest that? ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/6682 "2012-10-30T01:35:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > “Catch themselves a Goon”? you’re now working on a conspiracy theory? He’s knocking about with 2 fellow wannabe cops, they know these fucking Goons are causing all the problems in this once fine neighbourhood and the police just don’t seem to be able to do shit about it. Why, only the week before, one had been hanging out besides Frank’s house looking at his open door and window, and but for George being on patrol at the right time, he’d likely have been robbed blind. They decide it’s the last straw and the next suspicious-looking black guy in a hoody is in for a shock. Flash forward a week later and Frank sees a suspicious-looking character heading right by his house without a care in the world, the brazen swine. Frank speed-dials Z and Osterman, and the chase begins. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=333) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=335)