# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 361
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7203 "2012-11-07T23:24:14Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Looking at it in the most favourable light, it is George failing to mention something he doesn’t feel is important, which only makes you wonder what else he didn’t feel important enough to be bothering the investigators with. I agree. And I do wonder also. I don’t think, at least from a legal stand point this can be extrapolated into damning evidence of malice, ill will, or ill intent. I still haven’t made up my mind whether he is very savvy and covering his tracks, or just dumb, and trying to be helpful. Is he changing his story to intentionally deceive or unintentionally to put himself in a better light? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7204 "2012-11-08T00:17:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So you can tell if he is handcuffed by looking at the back of his head? That’s a nice trick. > > Regards, > Shodan Actually it’s more impressive than that. He can tell if there’s a policeman there. It took awhile for me to understand what dimmy’s trying to say but it appears he thinks the police let witnesses wander around the scene with nary a care in the world. Not only that, the police gave Zimmerman a pass for killing Martin and sent him on his way. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7205 "2012-11-08T00:23:30Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > Take a close look at that photo. Zimmerman is wearing something red. The alleged phone is being held by a blue arm. How is that possible? One could conclude that there’s someone standing in front of Zimmerman. Zimmerman’s red jacket had dark-colored cuffs and patches on the sleeves and shoulders, as shown in the first pic. Really, if someone else had been in front of him holding a phone to his ear, that would raise even more questions. However, that appears to be his own arm. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7206 "2012-11-08T00:29:05Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Looking at it in the most favourable light, it is George failing to mention something he doesn’t feel is important, which only makes you wonder what else he didn’t feel important enough to be bothering the investigators with. Did you read this before you hit enter? You don’t mention something you don’t think is important because… you don’t think it’s relevant to the events. He might of tied his shoes or scratched his ass too. Should he mention that in the re-enactment? Do you think people have photographic memories and can recall every detail in perfect order? This is how it will be dealt with at trial. Prosecutor: "in this picture are you on the phone? When was it taken?. Zimmerman: “I think so, I called my wife soon after the incident” Prosecutor: “and you didn’t think this was important enough to mention?” Zimmerman: “no, but you can check my phone records, I’m sure I called my wife”. that will tell you when the picture was taken. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7207 "2012-11-08T00:33:00Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Something else to consider from’s Z’s 2nd interview testimony. > > Then, a little further on. > > But Z, you just said you DID see him. > > You even said you backed away from him, which makes people wonder how he “suddenly” landed a punch on your nose. Well of course he saw him at some point. Your posts are getting more and more desperate. Are you trying to say that Zimmerman is inferring Martin struck him from behind without Zimmerman knowing he was there? ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7208 "2012-11-08T11:55:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Actually it’s more impressive than that. He can tell if there’s a policeman there. > > It took awhile for me to understand what dimmy’s trying to say but it appears he thinks the police let witnesses wander around the scene with nary a care in the world. Not only that, the police gave Zimmerman a pass for killing Martin and sent him on his way. If you’re hoping to discourage people from making shit up as they go along, you need to stop doing it yourself. > [@Magiver](#): > > Did you read this before you hit enter? > > You don’t mention something you don’t think is important because… you don’t think it’s relevant to the events. He might of tied his shoes or scratched his ass too. Should he mention that in the re-enactment? Do you think people have photographic memories and can recall every detail in perfect order? You’re totally missing the point with this phone business. Z says he was on top of TM when the first witness came on the scene, NOT stood several feet away and either making or trying to make a phone call. This raise all sorts of possibilities for what he’d been up to in the minute before witness 13 arrived. This isn’t just a slight omission. According to witness 13, he estimates there was about a minute between the gunshot and him walking around the corner with his flashlight, and he doesn’t say anything about seeing Z suddenly get up, head over to the dog path and begin making a phone call. > [@Magiver](#): > > This is how it will be dealt with at trial. > > Prosecutor: "in this picture are you on the phone? When was it taken?. > > Zimmerman: “I think so, I called my wife soon after the incident” > > Prosecutor: “and you didn’t think this was important enough to mention?” > > Zimmerman: “no, but you can check my phone records, I’m sure I called my wife”. that will tell you when the picture was taken. You wish. > [@Magiver](#): > > Well of course he saw him at some point. Your posts are getting more and more desperate. > > Are you trying to say that Zimmerman is inferring Martin struck him from behind without Zimmerman knowing he was there? No. I am saying that Z could not have both seen TM and began backing away from him in terror, and also NOT seen him until he was being sucker-punched. In his own reenactment, he describes where he was and where TM was(about where the detective was standing, ie at least 10 ft away.), and if he started backing away hen, he’d have been even closer towards his car and TM would have had to put a lot of screw-back and side on his punch to make Z change direction and head the way he’d supposedly attacked from. Look, this entire case will be far easier to understand for you if you just accept that Z is a lying pos. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7209 "2012-11-08T12:26:45Z")
Thinking on this business of how Z ended up on the floor where he did, is anyone else picturing Trayvon “Thugga” Martin casually bouncing Z down the dog path like a basketball? Perhaps that’s where the head injuries came from? ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7210 "2012-11-08T13:29:38Z")
Btw, ftr, a real “sucker-punch” is one that lands totally without warning. One can only be landed from the front if the recipient allows them to get near enough to throw it and not be suspecting of it coming in the slightest. If you want to sucker-punch someone without blind-siding them, you have to get them to drop their guard enough for you to invade their space, and you don’t do that by saying “What’s your fucking problem, homes?” when you are 10 ft away. Under the circumstances Z was in, after following a suspected Goon in his car from the moment he’d entered the neighbourhood and then getting out of his vehicle to go walking in a dimly lit area after thinking he’d finally made a run for it, hearing this guys voice and seeing him come stepping out of the shadows SHOULD have had alarm bells screaming in his head, but all Z did was reach for his phone to call police he already knew were on their way, and who phoning again would not make them arrive faster. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7211 "2012-11-08T14:46:31Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > but all Z did was reach for his phone to call police he already knew were on their way, and who phoning again would not make them arrive faster. So, you concede that that’s _all_ Zimmerman did? Nothing to provoke Martin’s attack on him? About bloody time. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7212 "2012-11-08T15:03:51Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > If, as the detective in charge of making the decision to let someone go under such circumstances, you haven’t even been through the initial witness statements to look for inconsistencies to try and shake the self-defence claimant with, how can you in good faith let a person go who you know has killed someone? Thus my problem with the law in question. The law forbids an officer from even detaining a suspect unless he already has probable cause that the force used was unlawful. Without interviewing witnesses, how can he possibly establish that probable cause? That’s why this law is ill-considered. In normal states, the law allows the police to briefly detain a suspect as long as they have “reasonable, articulable suspicion” – a standard lower than probable cause – that a crime has been committed. That’s the correct approach, in my view. Florida’s efforts to protect the legitimate self-defense killer swing the pendulum way too far the othyer way, by handicapping the police. ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7213 "2012-11-08T16:14:49Z")
So why is this taking so long to be presented to the judge (or subsequent trial)? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7214 "2012-11-08T16:18:30Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > So why is this taking so long to be presented to the judge (or subsequent trial)? Why is what taking so long to be presented? ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7215 "2012-11-08T16:32:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why is what taking so long to be presented? The evidence. Why June 2013? Omara waived his option for one hundred eighty-one days; but it shouldn’t have gone many months after that? ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7216 "2012-11-08T18:48:39Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > So, you concede that that’s _all_ Zimmerman did? Nothing to provoke Martin’s attack on him? About bloody time. No. I’m conceding nothing of the sort. I am giving my opinion of why Z is lying when he said such a thing happened. If you want to still believe in Trayvon’s magical punching properties, whereby he can hit someone backing away from him right on the nose, and they’ll begin stumbling forward for over 30ft while said attacker doesn’t even try kicking or hitting them again until they fall to the ground in a “come hither” fashion, I’m ready to give up on you. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7217 "2012-11-08T19:06:50Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > No. I’m conceding nothing of the sort. I am giving my opinion of why Z is lying when he said such a thing happened. The post I quoted in part doesn’t refer to your opinion of that in any way. > [@](#): > > If you want to still believe in Trayvon’s magical punching properties, whereby he can hit someone backing away from him right on the nose, and they’ll begin stumbling forward for over 30ft while said attacker doesn’t even try kicking or hitting them again until they fall to the ground in a “come hither” fashion, I’m ready to give up on you. No-one’s ever claimed that happened, and I have no belief that Martin had any magical properties whatsoever. ETA Feel free to give up on me. Whilst it’s possible I could change my mind on this issue, your tactics of inventing both evidence and other people’s side of the conversation is unlikely to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7218 "2012-11-08T19:39:37Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > The evidence. > > Why June 2013? > > Omara waived his option for one hundred eighty-one days; but it shouldn’t have gone many months after that? I have no idea what calendaring issues came into play when selecting a trial date. In general, the accused has a right to a speedy trial, so long delays are almost always either at the behest of the accused or agreed to by the accused. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7219 "2012-11-08T19:58:28Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The post I quoted in part doesn’t refer to your opinion of that in any way. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > but all Z did was reach for his phone… Did I really need to stick a “supposedly” after the “Z” for you to realise that I was casting doubt on his claim? > [@Steophan](#): > > No-one’s ever claimed that happened, That’s kinda Z’s exact description of what happened. > [@Steophan](#): > > and I have no belief that Martin had any magical properties whatsoever. But you’re happy to accept that you can be punched while you are moving in a backward direction, and with no other bodily interference, you can end up stumbling forward nearly 15 metres in a complete daze, while your attacker just follows you until you fall? Then, while you are on the ground, instead of being stomped to a pulp, your attacker is going to dive on you to continue his onslaught and cause nothing but a few addition scratches? Is that really what you think happened? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7220 "2012-11-08T20:09:02Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7221 "2012-11-08T20:21:24Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No. But you do believe he was hit first, in the manner described, I take it? If so, how do you think the attack moved to where it ended up? ps. And, you’re saying “No,” but in essence, what I’ve described is supposedly exactly what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7222 "2012-11-08T20:29:51Z")
Supposed by whom? It’s not what Zimmerman describes as happening, there are no witnesses who saw it happen, and it doesn’t fit with the physical evidence or common sense. I certainly don’t suppose it happened like that. The most likely reason for the supposed inconsistency is people not believing that Martin could have moved 30 feet after being shot. It’s entirely possible he could. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=360) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=362)