# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 378
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7543 "2012-11-15T02:43:33Z")
> [@Jiha](#): > > 1. And what evidence is there that Martin punched Zimmerman? > > Zimmerman’s own word, nothing more. But Zimmerman’s credibility is low due to the apparent inconsistencies in his story, a few outright fabrications he has made, and the lack of physical evidence supporting his claims about the fight. > > 1. This is why we have juries. Maybe he’s telling the truth, maybe not, but a kid walking home from the store died, and there is only his killer’s word to suggest he deserved to die. > > 2. If Martin were a 16 year old white chick, but everything else about Zimmerman’s story remained the same, would there be any question that an intensive criminal investigation would be warranted? 1. I have my doubts, but I will give them that…It makes sense Martin would have clocked him as he tried to defend himself. Again, I will give them that. 2. Agreed. 3. Of course…it’s all about Martin and the black male archetype… ---
**Author:** ![Jiha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jiha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jiha)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7544 "2012-11-15T02:43:33Z")
Did I miss something? Is there now some witness who saw how the fight started? Or did Zimmerman come up with some previously undisclosed x-rays that prove he had injuries consistent with a life-endangering fight? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7545 "2012-11-15T02:46:06Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Again, didn’t DeeDee say that Martin was screaming “let go, let go”? No. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7546 "2012-11-15T02:46:16Z")
> [@Jiha](#): > > Did I miss something? Is there now some witness who saw how the fight started? > > Or did Zimmerman come up with some previously undisclosed x-rays that prove he had injuries consistent with a life-endangering fight? “No Limit” is Superman MMA fighter who leaves inconsistent injuries…that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7547 "2012-11-15T02:49:30Z")
> [@Jiha](#): > > If Martin were a 16 year old white chick, but everything else about Zimmerman’s story remained the same, would there be any question that an intensive criminal investigation would be warranted? If all the evidence was the same the legal outcome would be the same. I have the distinct feeling you haven’t reviewed all the evidence before coming to this thread. Pretty much everybody came to Martin’s defense until the evidence trickled out. This isn’t to say that there isn’t some radically different evidence out there that contradicts what we know now but… it’s unknown at this time. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7548 "2012-11-15T02:51:47Z")
> [@Jiha](#): > > Did I miss something? Is there now some witness who saw how the fight started? > > Or did Zimmerman come up with some previously undisclosed x-rays that prove he had injuries consistent with a life-endangering fight? Zimmerman is not claiming he shot Martin because of his injuries. the claim is that there is a struggle for his gun when it’s exposed in the fight. Up to that point he has taken the beating. Whether that’s because he had to because his arms were pinned or it wasn’t a consideration at the time is unknown. There are no x-rays taken early on to my knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7549 "2012-11-15T02:52:46Z")
> [@Jiha](#): > > Did I miss something? Is there now some witness who saw how the fight started? No. No-one’s claimed there was. > [@](#): > > Or did Zimmerman come up with some previously undisclosed x-rays that prove he had injuries consistent with a life-endangering fight? No. No-one’s claimed he has. Neither of those things are necessary, though. We know there was a fight, in which Zimmerman was being beaten by Martin, as we have multiple witnesses of that. We know Zimmerman has injuries consistent with being punched, and with having his head bashed against the ground. It’s possible Zimmerman is lying or mistaken about how he got those injuries, but there’s no reason to doubt they were inflicted by Martin. As you are a lawyer, I’m sure you are aware that it’s possible to be in reasonable fear of death or serious injury without having received any injuries at all. That we have photographic proof Zimmerman was significantly injured in this fight helps his claim, but is in no way necessary for it to be made. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7550 "2012-11-15T02:57:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If all the evidence was the same the legal outcome would be the same. I have the distinct feeling you haven’t reviewed all the evidence before coming to this thread. \*\*Pretty much everybody came to Martin’s defense until the evidence trickled out. > \*\* > This isn’t to say that there isn’t some radically different evidence out there that contradicts what we know now but… it’s unknown at this time. LOL!!! You’re on fire tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7551 "2012-11-15T02:58:25Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No. I missed this when I posted. She says she heard a little bit “get off, get off”. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7552 "2012-11-15T02:59:40Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > LOL!!! > > You’re on fire tonight. Teenage girls don’t fight? Really? REALLY? try googling “teenage girl, arrested,fight” and you’ll get 132 million hits. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7553 "2012-11-15T03:12:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Teenage girls don’t fight? Really? REALLY? try googling “teenage girl, arrested,fight” and you’ll get 132 million hits. You really are killing it… Didn’t know you had such a sense of humor. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7554 "2012-11-15T03:13:10Z")
Jiha, Welcome to the club. This is what I have been going through for the last month or so. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7555 "2012-11-15T03:18:43Z")
[DeeDee interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfVTM8sqz4k) I actually didn’t know Martin characterized Zimmerman as crazy and creepy…this can also speak to Martin’s mental state…I guess to Zimmerman’s as well. Listen around the 17 minute mark\*\*. Jiha and Bricker\*\*, comments? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7556 "2012-11-15T03:21:39Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Again, didn’t DeeDee say that Martin was screaming “let go, let go”? You have a rich fantasy life. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7557 "2012-11-15T03:23:32Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > [DeeDee interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfVTM8sqz4k) Cool. You found it. Now, does it say that Martin was “screaming “let go, let go”?”. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7558 "2012-11-15T03:29:39Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > That’s them filling in the details, then they want to accuse us of fantasy and making shit up. > > Again, this is where the stereotypes come in. If you quit seeing this as an us versus them scenario, you might be surprised how accommodating people with differing opinions can be. Steophan appears to me to be basing their opinion on a strict legal interpretation of the evidence that we are certain of. You do them and pretty much everyone in this thread by painting all that disagree with you as racists. You think you have come to some unique insight regarding race in this case. You haven’t. And now you just use it as a cruch every time your other arguments fall flat. I think a bigger issue here that you and most others are missing is something that Steophan brought up. The unintended consequences of Florida’s SYG law. I think it is fair to say that if everything happened exactly as Zimmerman says it happened, in most states he would be looking at some kind of conviction. All your I distance that this is simply a race case, plays right into the hands of the gun lobby. Who are so very happy that you miss the fact that this tragedy has more to do with some ill conceived self defense laws in Florida than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7559 "2012-11-15T03:30:31Z")
I will withdraw the screaming part. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7560 "2012-11-15T03:33:04Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > If you quit seeing this as an us versus them scenario, you might be surprised how accommodating people with differing opinions can be. > > Steophan appears to me to be basing their opinion on a strict legal interpretation of the evidence that we are certain of. You do them and pretty much everyone in this thread by painting all that disagree with you as racists. You think you have come to some unique insight regarding race in this case. You haven’t. And now you just use it as a cruch every time your other arguments fall flat. > > I think a bigger issue here that you and most others are missing is something that Steophan brought up. The unintended consequences of Florida’s SYG law. > > I think it is fair to say that if everything happened exactly as Zimmerman says it happened, in most states he would be looking at some kind of conviction. > > All your I distance that this is simply a race case, plays right into the hands of the gun lobby. Who are so very happy that you miss the fact that this tragedy has more to do with some ill conceived self defense laws in Florida than anything else. No…you missed why I injected race into it…It’s because of posts Steophan, Magiver and \*\*especially \*\*Shodan made. It was only those posters, again, because of comments they made, again, especially Shodan. I disagree about the SYG…but i don’t think it applies here. This is not a “race case”–Again, I was simply calling out people who made derogatory posts towards Martin and blacks. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7561 "2012-11-15T03:36:47Z")
You are actually going to be shocked by my views here, but I actually support SYG. I don’t think it applies to Zimmerman. The founders of that law went on national TV saying this as well. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/7562 "2012-11-15T03:37:18Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > You really are killing it… > > Didn’t know you had such a sense of humor. [How](http://www.vibevixen.com/2012/04/tashay-edwards-teen-girl-arrested-after-brutal-fight-over-twitter-beef/) [many](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/28/4-teen-girls-arrested-record-beating-chester-neighbor_n_1922565.html) [stories](http://www.thisweeknews.com/content/stories/delaware/news/2012/05/11/police-beat-teenage-girls-arrested-after-fight-at-high-school.html) [do](http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/17/3537527/2-girls-arrested-after-fight-at.html) [I](http://www.cleveland.com/shaker-heights/index.ssf/2012/09/teen_girl_arrested_for_fightin.html) [have](http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20120719/williamsburg/teens-fight-near-mccarren-pool-led-arrests-at-giglio-feast-cops-say) [to](http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/girl-37536-year-high.html) [post](http://www.wmctv.com/story/17345823/two-teens-arrested-after-facebook-post-sparks-large-fight) of teenage girls arrested for assault before you admit you’re wrong? I linked 8 stores from 3 pages of the 132 million hit search. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=377) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=379)