# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 402
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8023 "2012-11-20T21:42:17Z")
> [@Redbrow](#): > > Isn’t that what Trayvon reportedly spray painted on school property before getting busted with a baggie of marijuana and a pipe? > > Anyway… > BDLR: So Trayvon said he started walking because he thought he had lost the guy. > > Dee Dee: Yeah. > > BDLR: OK. > > Dee Dee: I say, ‘Keep runnin’.’ > > BDLR: OK. > > Dee Dee: **He say he ain’t goin’ run, cause he say he right by his father house…** > > So exactly how did Martin get from being right near his ‘father’s house’ all the way back to the “T” some 70 yards away, in the opposite direction, where the assault occurred? Some things just don’t change… First of all, enough with you character assassinations of Martin… If you don’t know, my “WTF???” comment has to do with your bullshit comment. I will repost it, if you’re confused; _"DeeDee clearly states Trayvon was near Green’s unit and obviously went back to the T to pursue, confront and assault Zimmerman._" Now, if we examine this, you are saying DeeDee said that he was near his dwelling **and** went back to “pursue, confront and assault Zimmerman.” DeeDee said no such thing. If you don’t understand the use of conjunctions, then I suggest you pick up a grammar book. Even if i were to examine the first part of your statement, how do you define “near”? When I am 10 minutes walking distance from my house, that is “near”. take your bullshit elsewhere…let **steophan** will chime in to help you. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8024 "2012-11-20T21:42:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Sure. Quite a bit more rational than the contention that Zimmerman stalked and killed him. More like “stalked, got in above his head, got angry that it wasn’t going as planned, and then killed him,” when all that TM was doing was fending off an over-zealous, extremely frustrated wannabe-cop. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8025 "2012-11-20T21:44:54Z")
> [@Redbrow](#): > > Of course, GZ was not on NHW duty at the time so it does not really apply to this case but I have seen it repeated over and over that it is forbidden to carry weapons as an official policy of NHW. This is apparently not the case, for Sanford at least. As soon as Z changed his mind about going to Target, he was on neighbourhood watch duty. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8026 "2012-11-20T21:45:30Z")
Same bullshit arguments that I hear from certain ideological strains: there were crimes in the area, as a result… So since people with Martin’s skin color did shit, Martin should be held responsible for it. ---
**Author:** ![Redbrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Redbrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redbrow)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8027 "2012-11-20T21:47:10Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Some things just don’t change… > > First of all, enough with you character assassinations of Martin… > > If you don’t know, my “WTF???” comment has to do with your bullshit comment. I will repost it, if you’re confused; > > _"DeeDee clearly states Trayvon was near Green’s unit and obviously went back to the T to pursue, confront and assault Zimmerman._" > > Now, if we examine this, you are saying DeeDee said that he was near his dwelling **and** went back to “pursue, confront and assault Zimmerman.” > > DeeDee said no such thing. > > If you don’t understand the use of conjunctions, then I suggest you pick up a grammar book. > > Even if i were to examine the first part of your statement, how do you define “near”? When I am 10 minutes walking distance from my house, that is “near”. > > take your bullshit elsewhere…let **steophan** will chime in to help you. What’s the title of this thread again? Oh, there it is printed right at the top. “Martin/Zimmerman: **humble opinions and speculation** thread” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8028 "2012-11-20T21:48:07Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The part where it’s wrong to punish someone who’s done nothing illegal. What Zimmerman did was illegal. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8029 "2012-11-20T21:49:08Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Same bullshit arguments that I hear from certain ideological strains: there were crimes in the area, as a result… > > So since people with Martin’s skin color did shit, Martin should be held responsible for it. If people are going to be encouraged to use profiling to help combat crime, they need to be taught it properly, and not in the half-assed way Z was obviously trained. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8030 "2012-11-20T21:50:02Z")
> [@Redbrow](#): > > What’s the title of this thread again? Oh, there it is printed right at the top. “Martin/Zimmerman: **humble opinions and speculation** thread” :smack: excuse me–you are engaging in a discussion, SO I AM RESPONDING TO YOU. You made the statement “DeeDee clearly states Trayvon was near Green’s unit and obviously went back to the T to pursue, confront and assault Zimmerman.” I am correcting you. NO SHE DID NOT. What you’re saying is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8031 "2012-11-20T21:51:42Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > If people are going to be encouraged to use profiling to help combat crime, they need to be taught it properly, and not in the half-assed way Z was obviously trained. I know… What irks me is that they accept that it was OK for Martin to be profiled–they see nothing wrong with that. Even though Martin was legally entitled to be where he was and was minding his business on his way to his dwelling. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8032 "2012-11-20T21:54:35Z")
> [@Redbrow](#): > > SPD neigborhood watch has no such protocol. There is no official weapons policy according to Wendy Dorival (Volunteer Program Coordinator – Sanford Police Department). LOL, I notice you left out the issue of following someone. I assure that the no legitimate watch program encourages the behavior that Zimmerman took that night. He followed a pedestrian in a vehicle with tinted windows, then pursued on foot after the pedestrian ran from him, while carrying a loaded gun that he “forgot” he had, in the darkness of night, despite being trained against such practices. Reckless is an understatement. It is almost hilarious when you spell it all out. ---
**Author:** ![Redbrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Redbrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redbrow)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8033 "2012-11-20T21:56:17Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Same bullshit arguments that I hear from certain ideological strains: there were crimes in the area, as a result… > > So since people with Martin’s skin color did shit, Martin should be held responsible for it. Bullsht? It is pretty well documented. But maybe you think this news story was planted months ahead of time as part of the grand conspiracy to help George. And does George’s black neighbor, quoted by GlobalGrind, that I posted above, belong to this “certain ideological strain?” :rolleyes: Here is an article from Sept. 2011 that confirms the crime wave in Sanford. It includes several quotes from officials requesting citizen involvement and assistance. Quote But the answer does not lie solely with law enforcement, Chief Lee explained. Combating crime requires the assistance of everyone in the community. “The police officers can’t do it all by themselves. We need your eyes and ears to let us know when things are going on,” the chief said. “It truly is a partnership.” * * * Morgenstern also stressed the importance of citizen involvement. “The public needs to call us if they see anything suspicious. When you see something that doesn’t look right, call us out there,” he said. * * * “We hear a lot about this and it is time for us to figure out the best way to address this,” said Mayor Jeff Triplett. “It’s in your front yard and nobody knows better than you what is going on.” [http://mysanfordherald.com/view/full\_story/15669817/article-Crime-surge-alarms-residents](http://mysanfordherald.com/view/full_story/15669817/article-Crime-surge-alarms-residents)? ---
**Author:** ![Redbrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Redbrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redbrow)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8034 "2012-11-20T21:59:11Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > LOL, I notice you left out the issue of following someone. I assure that the no legitimate watch program encourages the behavior that Zimmerman took that night. He followed a pedestrian in a vehicle with tinted windows, then pursued on foot after the pedestrian ran from him, while carrying a loaded gun that he “forgot” he had, in the darkness of night, despite being trained against such practices. > > Reckless is an understatement. It is almost hilarious when you spell it all out. How else can you report suspicious activity, unless you follow the suspect’s actions and movements with your eyes and ears? Following is not synonymous with pursuit. There is no evidence of a pursuit. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8035 "2012-11-20T22:01:37Z")
> [@Redbrow](#): > > Here is an article from Sept. 2011 that confirms the crime wave in Sanford. It includes several quotes from officials requesting citizen involvement and assistance. > > Quote > But the answer does not lie solely with law enforcement, Chief Lee explained. Combating crime requires the assistance of everyone in the community. > > “The police officers can’t do it all by themselves. We need your\*\* eyes and ears\*\* to let us know when things are going on,” the chief said. “It truly is a partnership.” Eyes and ears, yes. Not legs and guns. > [@](#): > > “The public needs to call us if they see anything suspicious. When you see something that doesn’t look right, call us out there,” he said. Notice the request is to call the cops if you **see** something. Not follow, hunt, detain, and kill. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8036 "2012-11-20T22:03:54Z")
> [@Redbrow](#): > > Bullsht? It is pretty well documented. But maybe you think this news story was planted months ahead of time as part of the grand conspiracy to help George. And does George’s black neighbor, quoted by GlobalGrind, that I posted above, belong to this “certain ideological strain?” :rolleyes: > > Here is an article from Sept. 2011 that confirms the crime wave in Sanford. It includes several quotes from officials requesting citizen involvement and assistance. > > Quote > But the answer does not lie solely with law enforcement, Chief Lee explained. Combating crime requires the assistance of everyone in the community. > > “The police officers can’t do it all by themselves. We need your eyes and ears to let us know when things are going on,” the chief said. “It truly is a partnership.” > > * * * > > Morgenstern also stressed the importance of citizen involvement. > > “The public needs to call us if they see anything suspicious. When you see something that doesn’t look right, call us out there,” he said. > > * * * > > “We hear a lot about this and it is time for us to figure out the best way to address this,” said Mayor Jeff Triplett. “It’s in your front yard and nobody knows better than you what is going on.” > [http://mysanfordherald.com/view/full\_story/15669817/article-Crime-surge-alarms-residents](http://mysanfordherald.com/view/full_story/15669817/article-Crime-surge-alarms-residents)? Here we go… **Follow and respond to my ARGUMENT.** Was it fair that Martin be judged based on the behavior of OTHERS who shared his skin color? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8037 "2012-11-20T22:05:37Z")
> [@Redbrow](#): > > Following is not synonymous with pursuit. There is no evidence of a pursuit. [Pursue](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pursue) and [follow](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/follow). Debating doesn’t appear to be your strong suit. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8038 "2012-11-20T22:06:02Z")
Zimmerman knew from his comprehensive experience of the previous 18 mths that whenever “these assholes” were confronted “they always got away.” That was because they ran as soon as they knew it was on top and Z’s fat ass was too slow and dumb to catch them. So, when one of “these assholes” was seen calmly walking along as if he didn’t have a fucking single care in the world, Z must have been ecstatic. I wouldn’t be surprised if the real reason he pulled over to phone the police, instead of continuing to drive, was so he could give his crotch and his gun a good rub. That’s just my humble opinion and speculation, mind, and I can’t prove it in front of a group of Z’s peers. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8039 "2012-11-20T22:08:18Z")
So, you put up evidence about a crime wave, ok. Again, what does this have to do with Martin? So since there are a bunch of white men who molest children in a neighborhood, should I profile and kill a random white guy I see? There is also a “crime wave” of hispanic men mugging people. Should I profile a random hispanic man and kill him? ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8040 "2012-11-20T22:09:40Z")
> [@Redbrow](#): > > How else can you report suspicious activity, unless you follow the suspect’s actions and movements with your eyes and ears? Following is not synonymous with pursuit. There is no evidence of a pursuit. The further Z followed TM, the less suspicious he should have got, if he was thinking rationally and not just emotionally invested in catching someone he falsely believed was a crook. ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8041 "2012-11-20T22:10:17Z")
> [@Redbrow](#): > > How else can you report suspicious activity, unless you follow the suspect’s actions and movements with your eyes and ears? Following is not synonymous with pursuit. There is no evidence of a pursuit. Correct and there’s no evidence or even speculated dots to connect that show Zimmerman _pursuing_. As for this ‘near’ argument.. -It’s a gated community, not a huge one at that. -He’s on foot. POV would come into play here. Intervals of distance are often measured either as a repeating constant or relevant to how far you’ve already traveled. Where was Trayvon coming from again? A 7-11 not far up the road. He’s entered a confined spaced area, which has a definitive destination. His destination is closer to his current position than his point of departure. “near” in that context would mean noticeably close. > [@betenoire39](#): > > Here we go… > > **Follow and respond to my ARGUMENT.** > > Was it fair that Martin be judged based on the behavior of OTHERS who shared his skin color? George could go on tv saying “I hate all ni\*\*ers and they should go back to Africa where they belong.” It doesn’t make him guilty of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Redbrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Redbrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redbrow)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8042 "2012-11-20T22:11:27Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > [Pursue](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pursue) and [follow](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/follow). > > Debating doesn’t appear to be your strong suit. Pursue: to follow **in order to overtake, capture, kill, or defeat** It is a very specific kind of following. All pursuing involves following BUT ALL FOLLOWING DOES NOT INVOLVE PURSUING. Logic 101. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=401) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=403)