# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 413
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8243 "2012-11-22T01:00:29Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > How does Z’s phone call pin down where he was, without referring to his own vague descriptions? His video goes through that. It’s as much evidence as the phone call is evidence. And all the other evidence fits the narrative. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > DD merely says Trayvon’s problems began somewhere around the mail boxes. Trayvon had mentioned nothing about being eyeballed by Z outside Frank Taafe’s, so that throws the earliest part of Z’s tale into doubt. no, Dee Dee says he ran to the mail boxes. From the store. We know the direction he headed after that because there is a witness that heard the running. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Nobody can seem to confirm that Z got out of his vehicle where he said he did, so why are you so certain of anything from that point on? Because you need to believe Z, that’s why. Nobody can confirm that Z didn’t get out of vehicle where he said he did. This is the evidence you are so desperate to discover but can only imagine. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > If the prosecution pointed to clubhouse cctv evidence that proved Z was never there during his nen call, would that be contrary enough for you? Do you know how stupid it sounds when you post these what if’s? Let’s reverse it and see. If Martin emailed his friends saying he was going to beat a Spic dead would that be contrary enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8244 "2012-11-22T01:04:04Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > If you don’t do the former, how can you expect to be able to do the latter? > > The police have a duty not to believe someone just because on the face of it, they seem like an ok person. Actually the police have a duty to gather evidence so that a prosecutor can review it for signs of guilt or innocence. ---
**Author:** ![redhook1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc8723/32.png) [@redhook1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redhook1)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8245 "2012-11-22T01:08:40Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > If you don’t do the former, how can you expect to be able to do the latter? > > The police have a duty not to believe someone just because on the face of it, they seem like an ok person. No, they have a duty to follow the evidence and procedures in accordance to the law. What they cannot do is proceed in absence of evidence and contrary to the law, because they and they alone “truly” know what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Redbrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Redbrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redbrow)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8246 "2012-11-22T01:10:35Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > And **Bricker** , let me remind you that [Serino](http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-charge-george-zimmerman-manslaughter/t/story?id=16011674) filed an affidavit for Zimmerman’s arrest on the night of the shooting. > > All signs point to them having probable cause shortly after the shooting. You need to explain what makes you more qualified than the lead investigator in this case to say otherwise, when a day ago you didn’t even know witnesses purported to hearing a boy scream. That old story by Gutman, which did not even identify sources, was debunked. > [@](#): > > Some news agencies have reported that Sanford’s lead investigator, Chris Serino, wanted Zimmerman charged with manslaughter that night but Wolfinger’s office put a stop to it. **The city of Sanford issued a statement saying that is not true.** > > Police did that night prepare an incident report that lists “manslaughter” as the possible crime being investigated, but in every case in which an officer prepares an incident report, he or she fills in that spot with some crime and statute number to allow the agency to properly report crime statistics to the FBI. > > Two weeks ago, during an exclusive interview with the Sentinel, Lee disclosed certain details of the investigation and during that session, attended by Serino and others, **Serino said his investigation turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman’s account – that he had acted in self-defense.** > > **“The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event,” Serino told the Sentinel March 16. “Everything I have is adding up to what he says.”** [http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-02/news/os-trayvon-martin-federal-review-justice-letter-20120402\_1\_chief-bill-lee-federal-review-federal-agency](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-02/news/os-trayvon-martin-federal-review-justice-letter-20120402_1_chief-bill-lee-federal-review-federal-agency) During Serino’s 2 page interview with the FBI, he said he felt pressure from three officers to charge Zimmerman, even though he didn’t feel there was enough evidence to charge. He didn’t believe Zimmerman was motivated by racial bias. Just yesterday it was reported that Serino hired Jose Baez to represent him. > [@](#): > > “He wants his own counsel — he’s intimidated,” said Baez spokesman Michael Wright. “It may not be a friendly deposition.” > > An FBI report released this summer showed Serino told agents that he was pressured by African-American officers to file charges. [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/11/19/3105467/detective-in-george-zimmerman.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/11/19/3105467/detective-in-george-zimmerman.html) Also yesterday, the Orlando Sentinel reported that Chief Lee had Serino fill out the affidavit just so the SAO could take over. > [@](#): > > Bill Lee, the police chief who lost his job following the investigation, told the Sentinel police never believed they had enough evidence to charge Zimmerman, but had Serino fill out the probable cause affidavit because without the document, the State Attorney’s Office would not take over the investigation. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8247 "2012-11-22T01:11:00Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > **Imagine** Trayvon is stood sheltering by the mail box and he sees Z’s car go by. Moments later, it drives by again more slowly with some guy eyeballing him. Now Trayvon is paying attention. Z comes back once more and parks up at the first bend on TTL as you go past the clubhouse, and then begins his phone call. > > Blah,blah, blah." Lol. “Imagine” if something else had happened that night. “Imagine” if nothing had happened that night. “Imagine” if things were different. Would things have been different? Would the Crown have arrested GZ? Would the Crown have arrested Mrs GZ? Should the English Queen sell Florida to Spain? Would that get you the jury decision that you so desperately desire? ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8248 "2012-11-22T01:22:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > His video goes through that. It’s as much evidence as the phone call is evidence. And all the other evidence fits the narrative. His video is hardly conclusive of anything. Or do you believe he was parked opposite FT’s for as long as he was in his reenactment? Go on, tell me it fits exactly with the nen call he made. > [@Magiver](#): > > no, Dee Dee says he ran to the mail boxes. From the store. We know the direction he headed after that because there is a witness that heard the running. All the way from the store? Was he a long-distance runner as well as a pot-head? The witness descriptions of what was heard are far from conclusively in Z’s favour. > [@Magiver](#): > > Nobody can confirm that Z didn’t get out of vehicle where he said he did. This is the evidence you are so desperate to discover but can only imagine. If the police had done their job and just recorded its position before it was allowed to be moved, Z would have another rock solid fact to back up his story, and he needs as many as he can if he’s to appear credible to a jury. > [@Magiver](#): > > Do you know how stupid it sounds when you post these what if’s? Let’s reverse it and see. If Martin emailed his friends saying he was going to beat a Spic dead would that be contrary enough for you? Difference is, mine has a possibility of being true, yours is just made up to try and score a point. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8249 "2012-11-22T01:24:51Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Lol. “Imagine” if something else had happened that night. “Imagine” if nothing had happened that night. “Imagine” if things were different. Would things have been different? Would the Crown have arrested GZ? Would the Crown have arrested Mrs GZ? Should the English Queen sell Florida to Spain? Would that get you the jury decision that you so desperately desire? It’s called speculation. Did you even look at the thread title? ---
**Author:** ![redhook1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc8723/32.png) [@redhook1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redhook1)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8250 "2012-11-22T01:31:01Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > What I DO understand is that cops will normally have no hesitation about leaving a suspect to stew in the cells while they carry out their enquiries and they are quite happy to go to court for an extension on the time they can hold them, if they deem it necessary. But not in this case. No, here we have a man being treated like he is the victim and then being given a reassurance that it would all be sorted out, after a 5 hour stay and the most cursory of interviews. > > If he’d been a housewife or an elderly person, say, who’d had to shoot someone trying to snatch their handbag and who had turned violent when they hadn’t immediately released it, or Zimmerman had been obviously overpowered by a much stronger and far more aggressive person, I’d be far more sympathetic about him not being released to enjoy the pleasures of his own bed, but as it stands, I’d rather see someone slightly inconvenienced and a case investigated as fully as necessary, than worry about the sensitivities of a possible murderer. > > I’d expect any decent cop to prefer to have to apologise for arresting someone falsely, than to do the same to a parent for failing to nail the killer of their child. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > If the police assumed innocent motivation for every person they encountered who they didn’t have rock solid evidence of any involvement in a crime, the police force would be unfit for purpose. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Okay, he didn’t smell hash, he didn’t even see the person doing anything suspicious, but he says the person he arrested was acting funny and erratic and there’s nobody around to contradict him. He then searches him and “Yippee!” he did have some illicit substance on him. > > Tell me how that cop’s deception could ever be exposed, barring some kind of all-intrusive surveillance tech? The suggestion that there was absolutely NOTHING that they could have found on the first night that wouldn’t give them probable cause, seems unlikely, had they put the necessary effort in to incorporating even the limited information they had that first night. > > He certainly shouldn’t have been taken to the station and treated like a wounded hero who’d been through a traumatic experience, on what they could see right before their very eyes, ie. a guy who was as fit as a fiddle and looking remarkably unscathed, 30 minutes after a life and death struggle and the use of a wet cloth. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > I’m not condoning it, I’m declaring it as being general police procedure on the whole, and wondering why it hasn’t applied here. Go on, insist that police always do everything by the book without deviation and they haven’t developed certain ploys to get around the breaking of rules. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Like your experience in courtrooms is representative of behaviour on the streets beyond the scrutiny of objective minds. > > The smart ones never get caught, the dumber ones get a smack on the wrist, or if they’ve made a serious boo boo and arrested the wrong person with clout, they might be in a bit more bother, but my guess is most cops treat laws and rules as things civilians need to worry about, and don’t really apply to them. > > You’re welcome to point me in the direction of the extensive list containing all cases of police being tried and convicted of anything and the police force not dragging their heels when doing so. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Cops are expected to be honest and do the right thing, and shouldn’t be congratulated for doing it; they should be castigated for every bad cop they allow to flourish in their ranks. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > I wasn’t complaining about it, I was remarking on how surprising it was that it hadn’t happened here and subtly criticising the SPD’s friendly approach to seeing that Z had as trouble-free a ride as could be imagined when he was finally required to do a bit of explaining. Ok I’m confused, are you asserting that since cops are usually dishonest, untrustworthy, they should have fabricated evidence against Zimmerman, so they could arrest him that night? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8251 "2012-11-22T01:32:34Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > There’s many a true word said in drink, in jest and in The Pit. Are those the places where fishing trophies grow bigger, golf scores get lower, cars are faster, girls get prettier, and bad words provide a poor substitution for a mastery of the english language when alcohol or other mind-altering substances are consumed in large quantities? ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8252 "2012-11-22T01:39:12Z")
> [@redhook1](#): > > Ok I’m confused, are you asserting that since cops are usually dishonest, untrustworthy, they should have fabricated evidence against Zimmerman, so they could arrest him that night? I’m saying that it is surprising that these cops couldn’t establish any grounds whatsoever to view Z’s account as suspicious, but if they pulled someone over in a car and got a whiff of mary jane, they’d be ripping the car apart and getting a warrant to search the car owners home for further drug paraphernalia and the guy could moan about it all he fucking wanted and the cops would just sneer at him. But, place a dead hoody-wearer on the floor and let a man with a gun claim it was something he just had to do, and it’s all \*“Hey, come here bro’, let’s have a look at those terrible injuries. Oh, you want to phone your wife and let her know you’ve been sidetracked? Go right ahead. We’ve got no reason to believe you’ll say anything that might be pertinent to what has happened.” \* ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8253 "2012-11-22T01:40:58Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > It’s called speculation. Did you even look at the thread title? Since it’s mostly speculation, there’s no reason for anyone to get upset. Or run to the Pit. Is there? Except for factual referrences to FLA law and statues, of course. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8254 "2012-11-22T01:45:17Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Since it’s mostly speculation, there’s no reason for anyone to get upset. Or run to the Pit. Is there? > > Except for factual referrences to FLA law and statues, of course. Who’s upset? I’ll go to the Pit when I want some slightly more hardcore entertainment, but I’m not running there for or away from anything. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8255 "2012-11-22T01:48:13Z")
> [@Redbrow](#): > > During Serino’s 2 page interview with the FBI, he said he felt pressure from three officers to charge Zimmerman, even though he didn’t feel there was enough evidence to charge. He didn’t believe Zimmerman was motivated by racial bias. Just yesterday it was reported that Serino hired Jose Baez to represent him. Again, I ask that you do some homework before you try to argue over facts with me. You’ve repeatedly made mistakes about major details in this case, and you’re doing it now like an idiot. Serino, on his own volition, filed an affidavit for _manslaughter_ charges on the night of the shooting. Days later, once the FBI got involved, was when he was supposedly pressured to arrest Zimmerman for\* murder\*. From [here](http://www.loop21.com/life/zimmerman-case-detective-black-pressured-him-press-charges): > [@](#): > > A lead detective in the second-degree murder case of George Zimmerman told the FBI that black police department employees tried to pressure him into making an arrest, according to new case evidence released Thursday. > > Sanford Police Officer Chris Serino, **who reportedly sought only manslaughter charges against Zimmerman** , named the colleagues who he says pressured him during the department’s investigation, the Miami Herald reports. > > In FBI interviews, which were part of a federal civil rights probe, Serino said Sgt. Arthur Barnes and officers Rebecca Villalona and Trekelle Perkins were the main culprits “pressuring him to file charges against Zimmerman after the incident.” Your own cite indicates Serino disbelieved Zimmerman’s version of events. This, even though he was the one who initially corrected witnesses about the screaming. Zimmerman single-handedly destroyed the undeserved benefit of the doubt he had with this detective, just by lying extremely badly. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8256 "2012-11-22T01:53:16Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Again, I ask that you do some homework before you try to argue over facts with me. You’ve repeatedly made mistakes about major details in this case, and you’re doing it now like an idiot. > > Serino, on his own volition, filed an affidavit for _manslaughter_ charges on the night of the shooting. Days later, once the FBI got involved, was when he was supposedly pressured to arrest Zimmerman for\* murder\*. > > From [here](http://www.loop21.com/life/zimmerman-case-detective-black-pressured-him-press-charges): > Your own cite indicates Serino disbelieved Zimmerman’s version of events. This, even though he was the one who initially corrected witnesses about the screaming. Zimmerman single-handedly destroyed the undeserved benefit of the doubt he had with this detective, just by lying extremely badly. Yep. Despite his seeming inability to let Z tell his story without continually butting in with bollocks, or not trying to nail him down on specific aspects of his story, Serino knew deep down that Z’s story stank the fucking place out, but someone was smiling down on Z that night, and it wasn’t the sweet babby jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8257 "2012-11-22T01:58:45Z")
[quote=“dimmy\_derko, post:8248, topic:619125”] His video is hardly conclusive of anything. [rolleyes:/quote] It doesn’t have to be. The state has to prove it’s wrong, not that it might be wrong. Currently the evidence supports it. There are no conflicts except for your imagined “what if” scenarios. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > All the way from the store? Yes, all the way from the store:rolleyes:. I mentioned it earlier because of one of your incessant “it couldn’t happen this way” rant about 5 mph walk. I cited that Martin himself said he ran part of the way. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > If the police had done their job and just recorded its position before it was allowed to be moved, Z would have another rock solid fact to back up his story, and he needs as many as he can if he’s to appear credible to a jury. How do you know they didn’t? given that Martin’s commentary matches up with Zimmerman’s there doesn’t appear to be any other explanation. We know Martin’s path so Zimmerman has to follow that path. > [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Difference is, mine has a possibility of being true, yours is just made up to try and score a point. No, dimmy. That was the point. Mine was just as credible as yours. The difference is, the defense is allowed to pursue it in court. Note my discussion with Bricker earlier about it (Martin’s hobby of street fighting). ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8258 "2012-11-22T02:03:33Z")
I used to think Serino was a hero in this, but I now think he’s as corrupt as the rest of them. Its probably a testament to how bad Zimmerman is that this cop acted semi-decently this time. But his conduct with the witnesses and his godawful interogation of Zimmerman completely negate anything positive he did in this investigation. It’s a pity the man wasnt fired along with his boss. ---
**Author:** ![redhook1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc8723/32.png) [@redhook1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redhook1)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8259 "2012-11-22T02:04:54Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > I’m saying that it is surprising that these cops couldn’t establish any grounds whatsoever to view Z’s account as suspicious, but if they pulled someone over in a car and got a whiff of mary jane, they’d be ripping the car apart and getting a warrant to search the car owners home for further drug paraphernalia and the guy could moan about it all he fucking wanted and the cops would just sneer at him. > > But, place a dead hoody-wearer on the floor and let a man with a gun claim it was something he just had to do, and it’s all \*“Hey, come here bro’, let’s have a look at those terrible injuries. Oh, you want to phone your wife and let her know you’ve been sidetracked? Go right ahead. We’ve got no reason to believe you’ll say anything that might be pertinent to what has happened.” > \* Ok so as an impartial investigator, what specific facts/evidence that implicated Zimmerman as having committed an unlawful killing. That was discovered that night in accordance with the law, did they overlook? ---
**Author:** ![redhook1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc8723/32.png) [@redhook1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redhook1)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8260 "2012-11-22T02:10:30Z")
oh, and it doesn’t matter if they view it as suspious, they need something concrete to arrest him with (Bricker has touched on this a couple of times). ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8261 "2012-11-22T02:18:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Serino says he did not believe he had probable cause, and that he prepared that affidavit under pressure from others. > > So I agree with the lead investigator. You now need to explain why you are more qualified. I refer you to my response to **Redbrow**. All of what you wrote is false and stupid. You don’t have an excuse for being so ignorant about this case, since you’ve been yapping it up in this thread as much, if not more than, anyone else. How strong is your grasp on the evidence in this case, if I’m periodically having to correct you on basic stuff like how much Zimmerman weighed, what was claimed by witnesses, and when affidavits were filed and by whom? ---
**Author:** ![Redbrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Redbrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redbrow)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8262 "2012-11-22T02:23:33Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Again, I ask that you do some homework before you try to argue over facts with me. You’ve repeatedly made mistakes about major details in this case, and you’re doing it now like an idiot. Kindly refrain from personal attacks and name calling. Please specify these alleged mistakes I have made, so I can debate you, or take back your unfounded mischaracterization. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=412) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=414)