# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 422
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8423 "2012-11-24T02:44:15Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Apparently your non-internet life is so interesting, you’ve got fuck all better to do than offer your worthless opinions on my opinions. Well bless your heart. _Pat on the head_. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8424 "2012-11-24T02:49:07Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Well bless your heart. _Pat on the head_. Nope, patronisation isn’t working. Try another tactic to come across as superior, and feel like you’re winning. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8425 "2012-11-24T03:04:58Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > You asserted it was illegal to test Zimmerman for drugs that night because he didn’t consent to it. > > Where is the proof for this claim? State v. Bender, 382 So.2d 697 (1980). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8426 "2012-11-24T03:16:26Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Nope, patronisation isn’t working. Try another tactic to come across as superior, and feel like you’re winning. Well we tried debating the evidence but you keep introducing dimmy short stories. The latest involves a fight between Zimmerman and his wife. There is no indication of any such thing but you managed to invent something. All that’s left is a choice of the actors to play in the movie version. If you want to debate a point then explain the movement of Martin toward the person and place he ran from. Zimmerman is talking on the phone to the Dispatcher clearly giving away his position yet Martin moves toward him. He’s not trying to get away, he’s not calling the police on someone he thinks is suspicious or scary. He approaches Zimmerman and a fight immediately breaks out. We know that he starts the verbal confrontation. If it’s dark and they both lost sight of each other then Martin could have walked through the front or back door of his house and fulfilled his mile long walk in the rain for a single can of tea and some candy for his little brother. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8427 "2012-11-24T03:32:14Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > If you didn’t have a ccw and you shot someone in a public place, how would you explain having a gun on you? You were carrying it properly secured and unloaded prior to being in fear of great bodily harm or imminent death? You were legally hunting on public lands? You were legally carrying on your private property but were forced off of it in the course of events? But really Dimmy, did you honestly not see the second sentence? The right to self defense in FL covers your private property as well. No special permit needed to carry while on your own property\*. \*Since you seem to be such a pedant, I will take this opportunity to note that local government regulations may say otherwise. CCW has nothing to do with the right to defend yourself. It simply regulates a citizens right to carry a firearm for this purpose. Furthermore, under FL SYG statutes I am not even sure you would need to explain yourself if it was a lawful self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8428 "2012-11-24T03:32:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > State v. Bender, 382 So.2d 697 (1980). Yawn ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8429 "2012-11-24T04:17:48Z")
> **[George Zimmerman Update: Pre-Trial Hearing Set for April in Trayvon Martin...](https://www.lawyerherald.com/articles/2467/20121123/george-zimmerman-update-pre-trial-hearing-set.htm)** > > Judge Debra S. Nelson has set a pre-trial hearing for the George Zimmerman murder trial for April. During this hearing Mark O'Mara attorney of Zimmerman and prosecutors, who are charging the shooter with second-degree murder of Trayvon Martin will... ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8430 "2012-11-24T05:00:10Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > [George Zimmerman Update: Pre-Trial Hearing Set for April in Trayvon Martin Shooting Case](http://www.lawyerherald.com/articles/2467/20121123/george-zimmerman-update-pre-trial-hearing-set.htm) Wow. [Lawyearherald.com](http://Lawyearherald.com) is in dire need of a copy editor. The number of grammatical mistakes, misspellings and typos in that article is astounding. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8431 "2012-11-24T05:04:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Wow. [Lawyearherald.com](http://Lawyearherald.com) is in dire need of a copy editor. The number of grammatical mistakes, misspellings and typos in that article is astounding. defense has 50 to 70 witnesses. That should be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8432 "2012-11-24T05:11:51Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Yawn It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that a citation to an actual law makes you yawn. Saddens, but not surprises. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8433 "2012-11-24T06:21:20Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > You’re talking to me about stupid speculation and you’re suggesting the possibility of a healthy 17 yr old maybe having a heart attack before he had it blown out. > > MY speculation is all based on the available evidence and the implications thereof. > > As an exercise in showing you know what you are talking about, quote back a few of my more outrageous speculations, and we’ll see if they’re as stupid as the Trayvon heart attack analogy. I was simply passing the time trying to point out to you that the pathologist is required to discover the actual cause of death. at least according to the laws of the State of Florida. It would certainly not help the state’s prosecution if it was later discovered that a gunshot victim had not actually died of the gunshot wound. In this particular case, the autopsy indicates that TM did die from a single gunshot wound to the chest. Other evidence indicates that GZ was beaten by TM. That will also be presented in court. Your speculations are worthy of J. K. Rowling herself and seem to be primarily based on a muddled combination of English rule and dimmy-derkoisms. Neither of which have any actual bearing on the FLA court or legislature. ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8434 "2012-11-24T09:59:22Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > Does anyone really believe Z forgot he had it with him? How often do people on here who use guns for their protection forget they are carrying? :guilty: Walked into a post office with a .45 on my hip. To which very quickly a good ol boy was like “ma’am you can’t carry that in here” You were talking about MMA some pages back… how often do MMA fighters get into the moment and completely forget either their strategy or a simple technique, like when you have someone in a crucifix and are not throwing what would be obvious elbows - or a full side mount and not throwing knees to the body? Shit happens. ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8435 "2012-11-24T10:10:37Z")
> **[George Zimmerman Update: Pre-Trial Hearing Set for April in Trayvon Martin...](https://www.lawyerherald.com/articles/2467/20121123/george-zimmerman-update-pre-trial-hearing-set.htm)** > > Judge Debra S. Nelson has set a pre-trial hearing for the George Zimmerman murder trial for April. During this hearing Mark O'Mara attorney of Zimmerman and prosecutors, who are charging the shooter with second-degree murder of Trayvon Martin will... “The defense claims to currently have between 50-70 witnesses according to the Huffington Post. Zimmerman’s legal team submitted a request to delay the trial, which is been set for June 10. O’Mara states that the defense needs additional time to prepare for the case.” Either O’Mara is blowing smoke, or he’s on a mission to absolutely annihilate the state while everyone is watching. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8436 "2012-11-24T11:21:46Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > [George Zimmerman Update: Pre-Trial Hearing Set for April in Trayvon Martin Shooting Case](http://www.lawyerherald.com/articles/2467/20121123/george-zimmerman-update-pre-trial-hearing-set.htm) > > “The defense claims to currently have between 50-70 witnesses according to the Huffington Post. Zimmerman’s legal team submitted a request to delay the trial, which is been set for June 10. O’Mara states that the defense needs additional time to prepare for the case.” > > Either O’Mara is blowing smoke, or he’s on a mission to absolutely annihilate the state while everyone is watching. He’s setting up his flim-flam act. If Z’s innocence was as much of a slam dunk as some think, Zimmo’s MOMma wouldn’t need so long to set up his case. He’s trying to pretend to be thorough, but he’s just stretching out his workload. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8437 "2012-11-24T11:33:57Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > :guilty: > Walked into a post office with a .45 on my hip. > To which very quickly a good ol boy was like “ma’am you can’t carry that in here” But it’s not a regular occurrence, I take it, and, if you were going into your backyard to check out a suspicious noise or a figure stood in the shadows and looking like he’s got something wrong with him and he his holding his waistband(you can see that much - it’s not totally pitch black out there), you wouldn’t forget it then, would you? > [@Saraya](#): > > You were talking about MMA some pages back… how often do MMA fighters get into the moment and completely forget either their strategy or a simple technique, like when you have someone in a crucifix and are not throwing what would be obvious elbows - or a full side mount and not throwing knees to the body? This is because despite them being extremely well-prepared and highly trained, they aren’t automatons and the best laid plans of mice and fighters go out the window sometimes when you’re in that moment. You’ll find the best fighters are usually the most efficient ones, not the most active ones. One thing fighters, and even people who’ve never been in a fight before, very rarely do is, freeze like Zimmerman and forget to fight back altogether until they conveniently remember they have a gun, after having it pointed out by the person attacking them. > [@Saraya](#): > > Shit happens. Sure does, and Zimmerman is up to his neck in it, and he’s slipping off the dead puppy SheLIE had helpfully thrown him to stand on. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8438 "2012-11-24T12:35:19Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I was simply passing the time trying to point out to you that the pathologist is required to discover the actual cause of death. at least according to the laws of the State of Florida. It would certainly not help the state’s prosecution if it was later discovered that a gunshot victim had not actually died of the gunshot wound. In this particular case, the autopsy indicates that TM did die from a single gunshot wound to the chest. > > Other evidence indicates that GZ was beaten by TM. That will also be presented in court. > > Your speculations are worthy of J. K. Rowling herself and seem to be primarily based on a muddled combination of English rule and dimmy-derkoisms. Neither of which have any actual bearing on the FLA court or legislature. If this thread was strictly about the legal technicalities of this case, I’d be stood on my chair applauding you now, but as it isn’t, I’m remaining seated looking distinctly unimpressed with your waffle. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8439 "2012-11-24T14:35:27Z")
**Authorities still don’t know what’s on Trayvon Martin’s cellphone Defense attorneys say they need to know more.** [http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-trayvon-cell-phone-20121125,0,542835.story](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-trayvon-cell-phone-20121125,0,542835.story) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8440 "2012-11-24T14:37:02Z")
> [@dimmy\_derko](#): > > He’s setting up his flim-flam act. If Z’s innocence was as much of a slam dunk as some think, Zimmo’s MOMma wouldn’t need so long to set up his case. He’s trying to pretend to be thorough, but he’s just stretching out his workload. Nice, attack his lawyer too. If the defense does his job well then he’s scamming and pretending. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8441 "2012-11-24T14:45:21Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > [George Zimmerman Update: Pre-Trial Hearing Set for April in Trayvon Martin Shooting Case](http://www.lawyerherald.com/articles/2467/20121123/george-zimmerman-update-pre-trial-hearing-set.htm) > > “The defense claims to currently have between 50-70 witnesses according to the Huffington Post. Zimmerman’s legal team submitted a request to delay the trial, which is been set for June 10. O’Mara states that the defense needs additional time to prepare for the case.” > > Either O’Mara is blowing smoke, or he’s on a mission to absolutely annihilate the state while everyone is watching. Since it would be unethical for a defense attorney to call witnesses detrimental to his client, I doubt he’s blowing smoke. ---
**Author:** ![dimmy\_derko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/43a26b/32.png) [@dimmy\_derko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimmy_derko)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8442 "2012-11-24T14:50:24Z")
For those all fixated on “facts,” it’s all right there on Wikipedia’s pages if you can be arsed to check it out. > [@](#): > > Validity of circumstantial evidence > > A popular misconception is that circumstantial evidence is less valid or less important than direct evidence. This is only partly true: direct evidence is popularly, but mistakenly, considered more powerful. _Many successful criminal prosecutions rely largely or entirely on circumstantial evidence, and civil charges are frequently based on circumstantial or indirect evidence_. Much of the evidence against convicted American bomber Timothy McVeigh was circumstantial, for example. Speaking about McVeigh’s trial, **University of Michigan law professor Robert Precht said, “Circumstantial evidence can be, and often is much more powerful than direct evidence”**. Check my appeals to authority, and wiki back up quotes, biatches. Google is your friend, stop being a stranger. ps. If it’s good enough for Tim McVeigh, it shold cook George Zimmerman’s goose. Although not literally, I’d hope; unlike George, I’m against the death penalty on moral grounds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=421) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=423)