# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 434
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8663 "2012-12-04T01:16:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Because their job is to gather evidence. > > destroying evidence is a crime. > > That he was being attacked and needed help. Since turning over can mean making an exact digital copy of the original, what’s the problem? Crump still has the original copy. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8664 "2012-12-04T01:27:51Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > Since turning over can mean making an exact digital copy of the original, what’s the problem? Crump still has the original copy. the problem is that it hasn’t been turned over. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8665 "2012-12-04T01:45:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, what I said was that the state couldn’t present it in its case-in-chief. Exculpatory evidence I would be the job of the defense to present at trial. > > However, you’ve made a number of assumptions. **Material is not exculpatory merely because the defense says it is, and the failure to turn over exculpatory evidence is not necessarily grounds for a mistrial…especially when, as in the present case, the defense already knows what the evidence is.** Thank you… I am not a lawyer, but even I was able to reason this. I love the broad conclusions being made. Motion to compel—conclusion: Mistrial, Prosecutorial misconduct, lynch mobs. Work of art. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8666 "2012-12-04T01:58:21Z")
[http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/67-george-zimmerman-photograph](http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/67-george-zimmerman-photograph) Here is a picture of Zimmerman that wasn’t turned over to the defense until October 29th. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8667 "2012-12-04T02:14:09Z")
Yep. The prosecution has been playing keep-away with this photo for some time, trying instead to get by with submitting to the defense a poor quality b&w, then a poor resolution color print, and then finally upon the filing of a court motion, they submit a copy of the real deal. Justice is not being served by the prosecution in this case. [Link](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/03/newly-released-photo-shows-bloodied-george-zimmerman-from-night-trayvon-martin/) ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8668 "2012-12-04T02:31:15Z")
I hope some of that blood turned up on Martin. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8669 "2012-12-04T02:43:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yep. The prosecution has been playing keep-away with this photo for some time, trying instead to get by with submitting to the defense a poor quality b&w, then a poor resolution color print, and then finally upon the filing of a court motion, they submit a copy of the real deal. Justice is not being served by the prosecution in this case. > > [Link](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/03/newly-released-photo-shows-bloodied-george-zimmerman-from-night-trayvon-martin/) May I kindly ask why you feel they promptly had to release a color picture? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8670 "2012-12-04T03:35:22Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > May I kindly ask why you feel they promptly had to release a color picture? Because it’s pertinent to the case. On top of that the first one was so poorly reproduced it could only have been done that way deliberately. It’s deliberately overexposed and extremely grainy. It took 3 requests to get an accurate copy of the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8671 "2012-12-04T04:09:02Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > And yes, I absolutely agree with Crump not turning over the tape to SPD. Why the hell should he have? > For them to destroy it? He played it smart. Then you have these people talking about Crump stalling the investigation…LOL. If Crump doesn’t turn over the the tape, the original tape, to the SPD, then none of what is on that tape would be admissable in court. If the judge were to allow the prosecution to present Crump’s edited tape in it’s abreviated form or if the defense doesn’t have access to the original tape, that would be grounds for an appeal. Why are you suggesting that the SPD would destroy the tape? Isn’t that tape of witness eight’s disposition considered a key part of the prosecutions case? Crump’s withholding of the original tape can only be considered an attempt to stall or impede this investigation. How does Crump’s hiding of the original tape advance this investigation? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8672 "2012-12-04T04:17:09Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > Since turning over can mean making an exact digital copy of the original, what’s the problem? Crump still has the original copy. The police or SA’s office would need the original tape to insure that Crump, or someone else, hadn’t tampered with it. Crump may not want to turn over the original tape because it might provide proof that witness eight was coaxed or encouraged to make the statements she did. That wouldn’t sit well with a jury. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8673 "2012-12-04T04:18:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Because it’s pertinent to the case. On top of that the first one was so poorly reproduced it could only have been done that way deliberately. It’s deliberately overexposed and extremely grainy. It took 3 requests to get an accurate copy of the evidence. Ok, let’s try this again. May I kindly ask why you ( **Starving Artist** ) feel they promptly had to release a color picture? This is how it works. Starving Artist made a post (i haven’t heard from this poster before) and I responded to that post. The purpose was for me to get a response from him/her, \*\*NOT YOU MAGIVER. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8674 "2012-12-04T04:26:38Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Ok, let’s try this again. > > May I kindly ask why you ( **Starving Artist** ) feel they promptly had to release a color picture? [http://www.cobblawfirm.com/Rules\_Discovery.htm](http://www.cobblawfirm.com/Rules_Discovery.htm) (4) As soon as practicable after the filing of the charging document the prosecutor shall disclose to the defendant any material information within the state’s possession or control that tends to negate the guilt of the defendant as to any offense charged, regardless of whether the defendant has incurred reciprocal discovery obligations. and, as regards the witnesses that said it was Zimmerman’s voice crying for help: (1) Within 15 days after service of the Notice of Discovery, the prosecutor shall serve a written Discovery Exhibit which shall disclose to the defendant and permit the defendant to inspect, copy, test, and photograph the following information and material within the state’s possession or control: … (B) the statement of any person whose name is furnished in compliance with the preceding subdivision. The term “statement” as used herein includes a written statement made by the person and signed or otherwise adopted or approved by the person and also includes any statement of any kind or manner made by the person and written or recorded or summarized in any writing or recording. The term “statement” is specifically intended to include all police and investigative reports of any kind prepared for or in connection with the case, but shall not include the notes from which those reports are compiled; ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8675 "2012-12-04T04:27:30Z")
[QUOTE=doorhinge;15760009 1. ] If Crump doesn’t turn over the the tape, the original tape, to the SPD, then none of what is on that tape would be admissable in court. If the judge were to allow the prosecution to present Crump’s edited tape in it’s abreviated form or if the defense doesn’t have access to the original tape, that would be grounds for an appeal. 2. Why are you suggesting that the SPD would destroy the tape? 2a.Isn’t that tape of witness eight’s disposition considered a key part of the prosecutions case? 3. Crump’s withholding of the original tape can only be considered an attempt to stall or impede this investigation. 3a. How does Crump’s hiding of the original tape advance this investigation? [/QUOTE] 4. If…then. If or if. If, if, if, if, if, if, if, if,if, if, if. Can you and some other unnamed posters stop using “if” every other sentence? I hope you realize that this just makes it appear that you really have nothing substantive to say…after all, a hypothetical is a hypothetical. 1. Why? Because maybe they seemed to be a little to comfortable around Zimmerman and his dad. Maybe because they didn’t deserve to be trusted. Again, at the time of the recording, this was Martin’s FAMILY ATTORNEY making a recording…I see NO REASON why at that time Crump needed to fork that over to the SPD. NONE. He was playing it smart. I wouldn’t have given that to them either. 2a. I would think so. 1. Only…love these pronouncements. 3a. That’s the wrong question to ask. No one is “hiding” anything. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8676 "2012-12-04T04:28:04Z")
Readers skeptical of whether Zimmerman had indeed suffered a broken nose during the confrontation would do well to take note of Zimmerman’s nose in [these photos](http://a57.foxnews.com/www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/0/0/zimmerman_court_scene_397_20121203_205129.jpg) which clearly show how swollen it was compared to its normal state. I don’t know that the photos necessarily prove that Zimmerman’s nose was broken, but it certainly came in for some damage and should leave no doubt in anyone’s mind that he came under considerable physical assault at some point during the altercation with Martin. I took some pretty good shots to the nose a few times during the occasional fistfight as a child and teenager and my nose never came close to looking like Zimmerman’s does in that photo. No way I think the kid deserved to die, but it’s pretty clear he took offense and decided to get his thug on. It happens. People get assaulted every day all over this country for all sorts of reasons. It was just Martin’s bad luck that on this occasion the thugee happened to be armed. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8677 "2012-12-04T04:34:10Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Readers skeptical of whether Zimmerman had indeed suffered a broken nose during the confrontation would do well to take note of Zimmerman’s nose in [these photos](http://a57.foxnews.com/www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/0/0/zimmerman_court_scene_397_20121203_205129.jpg) which clearly show how swollen it was compared to its normal state. I don’t know that the photos necessarily prove that Zimmerman’s nose was broken, but it certainly came in for some damage and should leave no doubt in anyone’s mind that he came under considerable physical assault at some point during the altercation with Martin. I took some pretty good shots to the nose a few times during the occasional fistfight as a child and teenager and my nose never came close to looking like Zimmerman’s does in that photo. No way I think the kid deserved to die, but it’s pretty clear he took offense and decided to get his thug on. It happens. People get assaulted every day all over this country for all sorts of reasons. It was just Martin’s bad luck that on this occasion the thugee happened to be armed. I don’t know about “considerable physical assault” or “get his thug on” or “took offense”(to what?), but thank you for your opinion. But for me, even if Martin did break his nose, I feel he did it in self-defense. Again, thanks for your thoughts. Good to have some new blood in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8678 "2012-12-04T04:37:43Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Ok, let’s try this again. > > May I kindly ask why you ( **Starving Artist** ) feel they promptly had to release a color picture? > > This is how it works. Starving Artist made a post (i haven’t heard from this poster before) and I responded to that post. The purpose was for me to get a response from him/her, \*\*NOT YOU MAGIVER. > > \*\* I feel it is incumbent upon the prosecution to release the evidence they have during discovery as required by law and not to alter the evidence in ways designed to minimize or play down the aspects of that evidence which are or might be harmful to their case. I find the prosecution’s behavior in this regard to be especially egregious because as representatives of the people the prosecution is traditionally held to a higher standard and is expected to play fair with justice in mind and seek a result that is true and right as its goal rather than simply winning the case and employing whatever underhanded tactics it thinks it can get away with in service to achieving that win. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8679 "2012-12-04T04:40:02Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > I don’t know about “considerable physical assault” or “get his thug on” or “took offense”(to what?), To being followed and clearly under suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8680 "2012-12-04T04:43:45Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > To being followed and clearly under suspicion. And asking him what he was doing there. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8681 "2012-12-04T04:44:48Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Ok, let’s try this again. > > May I kindly ask why you ( **Starving Artist** ) feel they promptly had to release a color picture? > > This is how it works. Starving Artist made a post (i haven’t heard from this poster before) and I responded to that post. The purpose was for me to get a response from him/her, \*\*NOT YOU MAGIVER. > > \*\* uh huh. Good luck with that shiny new Internet Police badge because I’ll post what I want when I want to. that’s how it works. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8682 "2012-12-04T04:47:30Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > 3a. That’s the wrong question to ask. No one is “hiding” anything. Unless you have evidence the information has been turned over then it’s being withheld. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=433) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=435)