# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 435
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8683 "2012-12-04T04:54:52Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > These people are funny indeed. So why do you stick around? No, seriously why? ---
**Author:** ![Redbrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Redbrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redbrow)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8684 "2012-12-04T05:16:45Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > I hope some of that blood turned up on Martin. Sorry to dash your hopes, but the only part of Martin’s body tested for Zimmerman’s blood/DNA was his fingernail clippings. Then of course there is Martin’s shirt(ME-8), which is confirmed to have Zimmerman’s blood/DNA on it. Trayvon Martin’s shirt (ME-8) Four stains tested positive for blood. Trayvon Martin is the source of two stains. George Zimmerman is the source for another and the fourth stain is a mixed sample containing DNA from both individuals. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8685 "2012-12-04T13:55:17Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > So why do you stick around? > No, seriously why? Assorted reasons… Bottom line, some stuff needs to be challenged. People want to post their views (some of which IMO are bigoted, repulsive and amoral) for all to see. Again, I can understand if the arguments being made a purely legal, but they aren’t. People make a lot of assumptions and use lots of hypotheticals and pass these off as ‘fact’. It’s wrong and arrogant. I don’t want people around the world to get the impression that ALL OF US are like this. It has to be challenged. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8686 "2012-12-04T13:57:36Z")
> [@Redbrow](#): > > Sorry to dash your hopes, but the only part of Martin’s body tested for Zimmerman’s blood/DNA was his fingernail clippings. > > Then of course there is Martin’s shirt(ME-8), which is confirmed to have Zimmerman’s blood/DNA on it. > > Trayvon Martin’s shirt (ME-8) > Four stains tested positive for blood. Trayvon Martin is the source of two stains. George Zimmerman is the source for another and the fourth stain is a mixed sample containing DNA from both individuals. Conclusion: acquit Zimmerman, right? What is the meaning of this? And how big were the stains? Oh, so Martin smothered Zimmerman? Where’s the blood on his hands? ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8687 "2012-12-04T13:59:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > uh huh. Good luck with that shiny new Internet Police badge because I’ll post what I want when I want to. that’s how it works. Sure, you can. And I will ignore it when you speak out of turn. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8688 "2012-12-04T14:09:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > To being followed and clearly under suspicion. You mean being threatened? Because that’s how I interpret all of this. You might not be familiar with my views, but I feel whatever Martin did he did out of self-defense. It doesn’t make sense to me that a kid WHO RAN AWAY from someone and described this guy (to Dee Dee) as creepy would take the actions that he did unless he was provoked to do so. I don’t buy this "doubling back’ nonsense. Even if he did, what was happening that a former bouncer would need to shoot someone? Oh broken nose? Please, I have gotten more injured than that. Either way, I feel Zimmerman created the situation and forced Martin to respond. But Zimmeman knew whatever happened, he had the ULTIMATE backup–his gun. To me, that’s at least manslaughter and he needs to be locked up. Some posters here seem to be regurgitating Zimmerman’s account **verbatim**. I find it disturbing that some here see NOTHING wrong with Zimmerman’s actions (legally and otherwise). NOTHING. Then you have some posters trying to turn this thread into something OTHER than a speculation/opinions thread, lambasting people who have opinions differing from theirs. But again, thank you for your input ;). ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8689 "2012-12-04T14:24:05Z")
How totally odd it is that the newly released color photo showing Zimmerman’s nose looks nothing like Zimmerman’s [nose](http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbo=d&biw=1280&bih=827&tbm=isch&tbnid=FCOzlkiDEjL8BM:&imgrefurl=http://sandrarose.com/2012/05/liar-zimmermans-photos-do-not-show-life-or-death-struggle/&docid=WoWkGljBpC8DcM&imgurl=http://sandrarose.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Zimmeran-evidence-photo.jpg%253F42e305&w=534&h=703&ei=uAW-UOaWGPSI0QG-nYGgBQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=547&sig=105552840588838915142&page=2&tbnh=149&tbnw=112&start=24&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:24,i:193&tx=74&ty=96) at the police station. Are we to believe that all this massive swelling magically disappeared within minutes, or could it be some other explanation is at work? What’s also odd is that there is no blood actually seeping from his nares. Presumably this pic was taken before the EMT did their clean up, so why do we see blood clustered on his filtrum area but none anywhere near his nostrils. Does this make sense to anyone? I kindly ask folks to look closely at the B&W version of that pic. Something peculiar shows up, but I’m not going to say what it is lest it biases your eye. I believe this piece of pecularity is exactly why this version of the pic is included in the document dump. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8690 "2012-12-04T14:35:53Z")
[Here is a close up of Zimmerman’s face at the PD.](http://www.google.com/imgres?start=187&um=1&hl=en&tbo=d&biw=1280&bih=827&tbm=isch&tbnid=UqWz40SYMTSV6M:&imgrefurl=http://www.theblaze.com/stories/new-bloody-photos-details-more-of-george-zimmermans-injuries/&docid=s0YbHpMblAWuRM&imgurl=http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/zimmerman-6.jpg&w=568&h=374&ei=hwi-UNKMC4yN0QHShIDABQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=478&vpy=294&dur=125&hovh=182&hovw=277&tx=110&ty=131&sig=105552840588838915142&page=7&tbnh=122&tbnw=186&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:30,s:187,i:101) This pic would have been taken a few minutes after the pic in the police car. There is no way to square the two photos together, unless you allow the possibility of sheninangans. There is a reason that the defense has not moved to have charges dropped, yall. All of the motions they are coming up with now are legal theatrics. Nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8691 "2012-12-04T14:36:22Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > How totally odd it is that the newly released color photo showing Zimmerman’s nose looks nothing like Zimmerman’s [nose](http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbo=d&biw=1280&bih=827&tbm=isch&tbnid=FCOzlkiDEjL8BM:&imgrefurl=http://sandrarose.com/2012/05/liar-zimmermans-photos-do-not-show-life-or-death-struggle/&docid=WoWkGljBpC8DcM&imgurl=http://sandrarose.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Zimmeran-evidence-photo.jpg%253F42e305&w=534&h=703&ei=uAW-UOaWGPSI0QG-nYGgBQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=547&sig=105552840588838915142&page=2&tbnh=149&tbnw=112&start=24&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:24,i:193&tx=74&ty=96) at the police station. Are we to believe that all this massive swelling magically disappeared within minutes, or could it be some other explanation is at work? > > What’s also odd is that there is no blood actually seeping from his nares. Presumably this pic was taken before the EMT did their clean up, so why do we see blood clustered on his filtrum area but none anywhere near his nostrils. Does this make sense to anyone? > > I kindly ask folks to look closely at the B&W version of that pic. Something peculiar shows up, but I’m not going to say what it is lest it biases your eye. I believe this piece of pecularity is exactly why this version of the pic is included in the document dump. Massive Free Masons(see what I did there?) conspiracy here. Odd indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8692 "2012-12-04T14:39:03Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > It’s wrong and arrogant. I don’t want people around the world to get the impression that ALL OF US are like this. You don’t have much to worry about. The only people who will get that impression are people who make a lot of assumptions, stereotype and leap to conclusions. They don’t seem like people you are much interested in. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8693 "2012-12-04T14:45:17Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Where’s the blood on his hands? How hard was it raining? How long was the body uncovered? When did it start bleeding? Where would the blood go if Zimmerman was on his back? These are all lines of reasoning the defense could use to cast doubt on that claim. How would you respond? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8694 "2012-12-04T14:48:05Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > Massive Free Masons(see what I did there?) conspiracy here. > Odd indeed. You can try to dismiss me as conspiracy theorist or you could attempt to explain how Zimmerman’s nose went from completely flat to normal in the time it took for him to travel to the PD station. Remember, no EMT or cops reported giving him a cold pack for that schnozz. His nose should have been bigger, not smaller, when he took his official police photos. ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8695 "2012-12-04T14:50:28Z")
Picture doesn’t mean anything to me, could be photo shopped. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8696 "2012-12-04T14:53:23Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > How hard was it raining? > How long was the body uncovered? > When did it start bleeding? > Where would the blood go if Zimmerman was on his back? > > These are all lines of reasoning the defense could use to cast doubt on that claim. How would you respond? If I am not mistaken, chemical reactions can detect blood even if it washed away. Also, what is the likelihood that there would be no blood or saliva on Martin if he indeed put his hands over Zimmerman and smothered him? Also, how did Zimmerman’s head get "pounded into the pavement’? I would imagine Martin grabbed it to do so. Again, blood? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8697 "2012-12-04T14:57:00Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > How hard was it raining? > How long was the body uncovered? > When did it start bleeding? > Where would the blood go if Zimmerman was on his back? > > These are all lines of reasoning the defense could use to cast doubt on that claim. How would you respond? **betenoir** is not an criminologist, so his opinion on these questions don’t matter. Do you seriously think the State can’t cough up an expert witness able to answer these questions satisfactorially to a jury? It was drizzling; not a down pour. We have no reason to believe it was raining so hard his hands would have been rendered spotless. Have you ever tried to wash off blood from your hands? It’s very hard to to do without soap, let alone a scrub brush and hydrogen peroxide. The idea of drizzling rain being capable of washing away all detectable traces of blood from Martin’s hands will not fly in court. Especially if there is more than one menustrating woman in the jury box. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8698 "2012-12-04T15:12:57Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Then you have some posters trying to turn this thread into something OTHER than a speculation/opinions thread, lambasting people who have opinions differing from theirs. Of course you would never do such a thing. :rolleyes: > [@betenoire39](#): > > Why do you continue with this bullshit narrative? > (am I watching FOX?) > [@betenoire39](#): > > What you said is bullshit. > [@betenoire39](#): > > More bullshit Steophan? > [@betenoire39](#): > > Another bullshit parade. > [@betenoire39](#): > > I understand it well enough to call it bullshit. > [@betenoire39](#): > > I think your statements are horrible. > [@betenoire39](#): > > What an empty meaningless statement— > [@Magiver](#): > > Wow. you don’t even realize how seriously warped this statement is. > [@betenoire39](#): > > 1. What you’re saying makes no sense… > [@betenoire39](#): > > Your response is stupidity. > [@betenoire39](#): > > Then they want to turn around and say I’m the one presenting bizarre theories–laughable. > [@betenoire39](#): > > Get the hell out of here with your crap. > [@betenoire39](#): > > I am not a lawyer, but even I was able to reason this. > [@betenoire39](#): > > Gotta love the legal expertise here-gotta love it…mistrial LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8699 "2012-12-04T15:14:07Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Have you ever tried to wash off blood from your hands? It’s very hard to to do without soap, let alone a scrub brush and hydrogen peroxide. I hate to break this to you, but _Macbeth_ wasn’t a documentary. (In other words, you’re completely wrong). ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8700 "2012-12-04T15:27:58Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > There is no way to square the two photos together, unless you allow the possibility of sheninangans. I don’t know if I would go that far. The perspectives are completely different, making it a little difficult to compare equally. Hell with the nose. I want to know where his tan went! :eek: Shenanigans indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8701 "2012-12-04T15:32:16Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > I don’t know if I would go that far. The perspectives are completely different, making it a little difficult to compare equally. > > Hell with the nose. I want to know where his tan went! :eek: Shenanigans indeed. Mexican one day, Caucasian the next. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8702 "2012-12-04T15:33:25Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > If I am not mistaken, chemical reactions can detect blood even if it washed away. I am a bit skeptical that this works as well in reality as it does on tv, or that it is a process that is commonly applied outside of large crime labs. I welcome having my ignorance fought. > [@](#): > > Also, what is the likelihood that there would be no blood or saliva on Martin if he indeed put his hands over Zimmerman and smothered him? I would say exceedingly remote. > [@](#): > > Also, how did Zimmerman’s head get "pounded into the pavement’? I would imagine Martin grabbed it to do so. Again, blood? I doubt Martin “grabbed” Zimmerman’s head. Personally, I think the Zimmerman’s head hitting the ground was incidental to Martin shoving him to break Zimmerman’s grasp. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=434) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=436)