# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 438
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8743 "2012-12-04T22:00:09Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Other than the whole murdering people thing, you mean? LOL. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8744 "2012-12-04T22:32:44Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Other than the whole murdering people thing, you mean? Would you like to present your evidence Zimmerman murdered Martin? It would be more than the state has provided so far. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8745 "2012-12-04T23:11:22Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > Would you like to present your evidence Zimmerman murdered Martin? It would be more than the state has provided so far. “He only ever shot one kid to death, and they could never prove it was murder,” is something that is also said about Gandhi. ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8746 "2012-12-04T23:27:50Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > “He only ever shot one kid to death, and they could never prove it was murder,” is something that is also said about Gandhi. Meanwhile, during the break from Lifetime movies… > [@hmarvin](#): > > Orlando.com.news just released the FBI transcripts. Bad news for the prosecution. Almost everyone interviewed thinks Zimmerman is a polite, helpful, nice person, without the slightest hint of racism. hmarvin, why is that news? We already know the FBI ‘cleared’ him of racist intent months ago. Do you feel it changes anything now? ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8747 "2012-12-04T23:37:13Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > 1. No. > > 2. Yeah, right. Not even the cops bought that bull. > > 3. No he didn’t. > > 4. No, YOUR WORLD. Again, the material is there to send him away. It’s like I have to keep on repeating this. Even lawyers chimed in on this thread to say this. > > 5. Zimmerman was beneath him. And? Your point? I never denied this. > > 6. Keep dreaming. 1. You might want to rethink that position. The mods here traditionally have not taken kindly to modifying quotes, even innocuous modifications. Pretty much a zero tolerance policy. 2. So we should believe the cops judgment on this, but not trust them in general? 3. Lawyer. I may be mistaken, but I only recall one acknowledged lawyer agreeing there is a winnable case, and not at what is currently charged given the currently known facts. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8748 "2012-12-04T23:46:21Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > You’re the one asking the question about how hard it was raining, as though its plausible that rain could vanquish detectable blood traces from Martin’s hands. It’s an idea that’s a bit absurd on its face, which is why I feel qualified as a non-criminologist to offer my opinion about it. If you go back and look, I was presented a series of potential points of argument. I was curious what the poster Betenoire39 had in store to address them. Clearly they do not wish to respond. I never offered my opinion, but I do thank you for offering yours. > [@](#): > > So the better question is how likely is it that they would have not subjected Martin’s hands to some kind of screening process for blood evidence prior to taking fingernail clippings? How likely is it that Martin’s hands actually were contaminated by Z’s blood, but evidence collection overlooked this? It doesn’t seem likely at all to me, which is why this line of questioning strikes me as desperate straw grasping. I agree. How likely is it that someone trying to counter the argument “where is the blood?” will first go with gross negligence on the part of the lab as their primary argument? Hence, the points I tossed out. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8749 "2012-12-04T23:49:52Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Other than the whole murdering people thing, you mean? Evidence suggests that GZ was defending himself from imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. Do you have anything that will convince a jury that GZ wasn’t defnding himself? Something that could be used in court? I don’t believe your “feelings” are admissible. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8750 "2012-12-04T23:54:50Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Evidence suggests that GZ was defending himself from imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. > > Do you have anything that will convince a jury that GZ wasn’t defnding himself? Something that could be used in court? I don’t believe your “feelings” are admissible. Hey, Trayvon, this guy says, technically, it wasn’t murder. Good news, right? Hello? Trayvon? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8751 "2012-12-05T00:29:28Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > You can try to dismiss me as conspiracy theorist or you could attempt to explain how Zimmerman’s nose went from completely flat to normal in the time it took for him to travel to the PD station. > > Remember, no EMT or cops reported giving him a cold pack for that schnozz. His nose should have been bigger, not smaller, when he took his official police photos. It hasn’t gone from completely flat to normal. It’s gone from swelled to less swelled. You can clearly see the swelling in the later picture. what needs to be explained here? Are you accusing the Prosecution of doctoring the color photo? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8752 "2012-12-05T00:39:34Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > I agree. > How likely is it that someone trying to counter the argument “where is the blood?” will first go with gross negligence on the part of the lab as their primary argument? Hence, the points I tossed out. They might try that but they can’t get up there and accuse the lab of incompetence just because it feels good. They have to actually have evidence to support such a claim. I wish them all the luck in the world in finding such evidence, but those who are rooting for Zimmerman shouldn’t hold their breath. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8753 "2012-12-05T00:45:12Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > Meanwhile, during the break from Lifetime movies… > > hmarvin, why is that news? We already know the FBI ‘cleared’ him of racist intent months ago. Do you feel it changes anything now? ``` Only to the extent that the actual racists can now hopefully verify it wasn't a hate crime. ``` ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8754 "2012-12-05T00:55:21Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Evidence suggests that GZ was defending himself from imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. > > Do you have anything that will convince a jury that GZ wasn’t defnding himself? Something that could be used in court? I don’t believe your “feelings” are admissible. If Trayvon had continued beating him, Zimmerman would have passed out. If the beating had continued longer than that, Zimmerman could have died. Would Martin have stopped before Zimmerman’s demise? Who knows? But a lot of the people calling for Zimmerman’s head, under the same conditions, would have done exactly what Zimmerman did. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8755 "2012-12-05T01:25:29Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Other than the whole murdering people thing, you mean? There is no evidence of murder. None. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8756 "2012-12-05T01:27:16Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > “He only ever shot one kid to death, and they could never prove it was murder,” is something that is also said about Gandhi. I have no evidence that you’re a murderer, either. I assume you’d be irked if I called you one. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8757 "2012-12-05T01:31:38Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Hey, Trayvon, this guy says, technically, it wasn’t murder. Good news, right? Hello? Trayvon? That’s not an argument that is remarkable for its cogency. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8758 "2012-12-05T01:35:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have no evidence that you’re a murderer, either. I assume you’d be irked if I called you one. In order to avoid being called a murderer, I have made it a policy to not shoot too many kids to death. That way I avoid the whole nitpicking over whether I am a murderer or only some asshole who shot some kid to death. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8759 "2012-12-05T02:17:56Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Before leaping to the conclusion that the state is playing fast and loose with the evidence, you need to go to the discovery dump and look at the black and white photo of Zimmerman. You should notice, first of all, that it’s a [low contrast pic](http://images.wjla.com/communities/zimmermanphoto_172.jpg), so you can see more details in it than you can see in the mess circulating now. So the first question you should ask is why is the defense using a poor quality B&W pic to argue their case of unfairness, rather than the pic in the document dump? The answer is most likely legal theatrics, not substance. first off, The B&W image is not a low-contrast picture. it’s a NO-contrast photocopy of something deliberately overexposed. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Secondly, you should ask yourself what the State could really gain for “hiding” the color photo. It’s not as though the jury can’t look at the B&W version and appreciate the massive swelling depicted. The obvious answer is that the State isn’t trying to hide anything. The B&W pic contains details that they feel is relevant to their case against Zimmerman, and they believe the color pic adds nor takes away anything from that case. What the state has to gain is denial of a picture that shows the seriousness of the injuries. The B&W image imparts substantially less information. Since it’s a simple matter to scan the image or transmit the original digital copy to the defense there is absolutely, and I mean absolutely, no legitimate reason to alter it in any way. This was a flagrant and deliberate act. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8760 "2012-12-05T02:55:42Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > In order to avoid being called a murderer, I have made it a policy to not shoot too many kids to death. That way I avoid the whole nitpicking over whether I am a murderer or only some asshole who shot some kid to death. A fine plan, but I am also guessing you’ve never been in a situation in which deadly force was being used against you while you are legally armed, which is what Zimmerman claims befell him. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8761 "2012-12-05T03:24:30Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > 1. Sure…Zimmerman was an angel who just happened to leave his car with a gun pursuing him that night just to “ask” Martin a question. Martin who was offended, “doubled back” and “pounded his head into the pavement” and “savagely attacked Zimmerman”. > > Yup. :rolleyes: > > I think the better question to ask here is what Zimmerman did that night and how he contributed to Martin’s death. > > 1. “Entitled”???Your world buddy. > > 2. No, I don’t “know this”. **Betenoire** , it’s against the rules to modify or change a quote by someone else in any way. Don’t do this again. If you want to reply to specific points–one by one–made by someone else, just quote their post and write yours under it. Don’t change what’s in the quote box or write your reply under it in the quote box. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8762 "2012-12-05T03:30:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A fine plan, but I am also guessing you’ve never been in a situation in which deadly force was being used against you while you are legally armed, which is what Zimmerman claims befell him. That’s where you’d be wrong; that happens to me all the time. For example, recently I was creeping along in my car late at night slowly following some teenager walking home. When he got scared and ran, I grabbed my gun and ran after him and shot him to to death…Wait, no, forget it. That didn’t happen, because I’m not a fucking moron. I guess I don’t go around creating situations where people end up getting shot to death. Those people who do, though, we should throw them in jail. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=437) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=439)