# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 446
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8903 "2012-12-07T18:34:06Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I remember people saying the same thing about him being arrested. But he was arrested. > > The same people then shifted gears and expressed confidence that the charges would be dropped before long. But the charges have stayed. > > Predictably, now the same crowd is insisting–despite the utter wrongness of their previous predictions–that there is no way he’s going to be convicted. > > Aren’t yall getting tired of being proven wrong? I can’t answer that question, because I’m not part of whatever group said there was a snowball’s chance in hell of him being arrested or of the case not being dropped. I’m not even one of the people saying there’s no way he’s going to be convicted of _some_thing. Just that there is no way in hell that he’ll be in prison for that long. I think there is a very good chance he’ll win immunity. If not, there is an even better chance of him being found not guilty. If not, an extremely high chance of a hung jury. Virtually no chance of a conviction of murder 2. If the judge can’t lower the sentence, then an appeals court will intervene in some way. Barring that, then at some point a future governor will pardon him. Bottom line: The chance of him remaining in prison until his early 50’s is approximately 0.003185712579%, which, according to scientists, is a snowball’s chances in hell. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8904 "2012-12-07T18:46:54Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > I think there is a very good chance he’ll win immunity. Immunity? In exchange for what? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8905 "2012-12-07T18:53:48Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > Bottom line: The chance of him remaining in prison until his early 50’s is approximately 0.003185712579%, which, according to scientists, is a snowball’s chances in hell. Right, I know you believe this based on your feelings and emotions. All I’m saying is that the same kind of forecasts were made about Zimmerman in the beginning and they were hilariously wrong. Your pronoucements are essentially setting you up to be laughed at later, and I’m not understanding why that hasn’t dawned on you and others like you as of yet. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8906 "2012-12-07T19:27:51Z")
**You** , (can I call you **You**?) – I’m pretty much on your side of the argument when it comes to Zimmerman’s culpability in this whole mess, but on the other hand I’m squarely in the \*\*emeraldia \*\*camp regarding his potential prison time. You don’t think Florida is going to make one big soup-sandwich out of this? They crow about their “don’t worry, you can shoot people” laws. Of course Zimmerman is going to walk – and become a folk hero – and an NRA darling – all the bennies one gets from being an heroic vigilante. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8907 "2012-12-07T19:55:09Z")
I don’t know if he’s gonna walk or not. Jurors are unpredictable animals, and no one has a crystal ball to see how Zimmerman is going to perform on the witness stand. Evidence still is being collected, too. It’s foolish to declare, in either direction, what is going to happen to Zimmerman a year from now. Especially in a thread like this one, with two sides vehemently pitted against each other. If by chance **emeraldia’s** wrong about Zimmerman’s chances of being locked up until his 50’s, he’s gotta know that me, **betenoir** , and others are going to bring up earlier posts and howl with laughter. I just don’t get why he’s opening himself to such derision when it’s completely unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8908 "2012-12-07T20:09:03Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Immunity? In exchange for what? In exchange for nothing. If he wins the SYG hearing he is immune from both criminal and civil charges. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8909 "2012-12-07T20:09:25Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I don’t know if he’s gonna walk or not. Jurors are unpredictable animals, and no one has a crystal ball to see how Zimmerman is going to perform on the witness stand. Evidence still is being collected, too. > > It’s foolish to declare, in either direction, what is going to happen to Zimmerman a year from now. Especially in a thread like this one, with two sides vehemently pitted against each other. If by chance **emeraldia’s** wrong about Zimmerman’s chances of being locked up until his 50’s, he’s gotta know that me, **betenoir** , and others are going to bring up earlier posts and howl with laughter. I just don’t get why he’s opening himself to such derision when it’s completely unnecessary. You don’t feel you’ve opened yourself up to similar ridicule if Zimmerman is cleared at the SYG hearing? Or if he goes to trial and the judge’s instructions to the jury are consistent with what I said about disproving self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8910 "2012-12-07T20:17:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > In exchange for nothing. If he wins the SYG hearing he is immune from both criminal and civil charges. A lawyer should correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s not immunity – that’s acquittal, or dropping of charges. I was under the impression that immunity is granted with the acknowledgement that a crime has been committed, but that charges will not be carried forth. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8911 "2012-12-07T20:26:52Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I had a similar experience I’d like to share with you. > > I had just gotten out of church, where I spent my day like I spend all my days, praying for hope and peace for all mankind. It was late and dark and raining, but I was full of love for humanity as I walked home to take care of my sick Nana, when a scary man started following me in his van. > > “Oh, this must be the neighborhood watchman” I thought, as I skipped over to his van to assure him that I was just on my way home. To my utter surprise he pulled me into his van and raped and murdered me. > > “Oh my” I thought just before he caved in my skull, dismembered my corpse, and buried it in the woods “I hadn’t realized that creepy people who follow you late at night might not all be nice!” > > The worst part was, I knew people were all around; I could hear their dog whistles. But none of them helped. LOL. Apparently they feel that Martin calmly responding to Zimmerman was the appropriate etiquette. Wonder where they are getting this from? One only needs to read US history books to figure out why. These people are so transparent… ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8912 "2012-12-07T20:36:11Z")
In addition bringing up Tawana Brawley and Duke Lacrosse… WTF does this have to do with this particular case? Nothing…same shit you hear from the racist far-right…same shit. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8913 "2012-12-07T20:48:51Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] I remember people saying the same thing about him being arrested. But he was arrested. [/QUOTE] Who in this thread do you think you remember saying that Zimmerman would not be arrested? IOW, I would like to see a cite. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8914 "2012-12-07T20:53:01Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Doesn’t sound like words of support for Zimmerman. Agreed. [QUOTE=betenoire39] Doesn’t help that the creators of SYG spoke out against him (not sure if that’s relevant here, but it’s worth mentioning). [/QUOTE] Doesn’t exactly sound like a comment on anything other than the applicability of SYG. In other words I do not see Baxley opining that Zimmerman is guilty of murder. I think the closest Baxley came was when he said: “There is no protection in the “Stand Your Ground” law for anyone who pursues and confronts people.” In either case, thanks for the links. I had only come across snippets of the interview before. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8915 "2012-12-07T20:57:52Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > A lawyer should correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s not immunity – that’s acquittal, or dropping of charges. I was under the impression that immunity is granted with the acknowledgement that a crime has been committed, but that charges will not be carried forth. The language of the SYG law is that, should it be decided that someone defended themselves legitimately, they are immune from any criminal or civil action. > [@](#): > > 776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.— > > (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant. From [here](http://www.husseinandwebber.com/florida-stand-your-ground-statute.html). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8916 "2012-12-07T20:58:26Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > In addition bringing up Tawana Brawley and Duke Lacrosse… > > WTF does this have to do with this particular case? Both the Brawley case and the Duke lacrosse cases were examples of charges leveled against white people, for alleged crimes against black people, where it was later established that the charges were false, and that the black accusers were lying. **you with the face** was quite vocal in her defense of the black liar in the Duke case. It turns out that she was wrong. So when she says > [@](#): > > Aren’t yall getting tired of being proven wrong? apparently the answer in her case is “not yet”. And, just in case someone would like to misinterpret what I have been saying all along, I am not saying Zimmerman will not be convicted (of anything). I am saying, based on the evidence to date, he **should not** be convicted (of anything). I am reasonably confident he will not be convicted of second-degree murder, which is what he is charged with. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8917 "2012-12-07T20:59:56Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Agreed. > > Doesn’t exactly sound like a comment on anything other than the applicability of SYG. In other words I do not see Baxley opining that Zimmerman is guilty of murder. > I think the closest Baxley came was when he said: > “There is no protection in the “Stand Your Ground” law for anyone who pursues and confronts people.” > > **In either case, thanks for the links. I had only come across snippets of the interview before**. You were unaware of something? You’re thanking me for something? ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8918 "2012-12-07T21:03:40Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Both the Brawley case and the Duke lacrosse cases were examples of charges leveled against white people, for alleged crimes against black people, where it was later established that the charges were false, and that the black accusers were lying. **you with the face** was quite vocal in her defense of the black liar in the Duke case. It turns out that she was wrong. Yeah, like there haven’t been cases where the accusers were CORRECT and still labeled lying by the “it’s not about race crowd”? Like there haven’t been cases of blacks who were actually sent to prison because of lying whites–yet they were still believed? I know about those cases. \*\* My point still remains:what the HELL does this have to do with Martin?\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8919 "2012-12-07T21:04:07Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > In addition bringing up Tawana Brawley and Duke Lacrosse… > > WTF does this have to do with this particular case? > > Nothing…same shit you hear from the racist far-right…same shit. They are more cases where it was falsely claimed that a crime had been committed, and because the “victim” was black, people automatically assumed that a) a crime must have been committed and b) it must have been racially motivated. That was true in neither of those cases, and it’s not true here. The only racism here is people shit-stirring and saying that Zimmerman must be locked up because he killed a black kid, as though that’s any different from killing a white person, of whatever age. It’s unfortunate for him that his attacker wasn’t white, because we wouldn’t have professional race-baiters like Sharpton weighing in in ignorance of the facts, and his disciples in this thread spouting obnoxious, dangerous bullshit. To answer a previous question, you lot have been proved wrong twice, with those cases. Do you not see a pattern here? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8920 "2012-12-07T21:07:02Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Yeah, like there haven’t been cases where the accusers were CORRECT and still labeled lying by the “it’s not about race crowd”? No-one’s claiming otherwise. > [@](#): > > Like there haven’t been cases of blacks who were actually sent to prison because of lying whites–yet they were still believed? No-one’s claiming otherwise. > [@](#): > > I know about those cases. If you claimed to know the sky was up and the grass was down, I’d still need citations in triplicate. > [@](#): > > \*\* > My point still remains:what the HELL does this have to do with Martin?\*\* They were cases brought against white people for racist reasons. This is a case brought against a hispanic person for racist reasons. It doesn’t have anything to do with Martin, it has to do with the victims - in this case, Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![betenoire39](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@betenoire39](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoire39)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8921 "2012-12-07T21:15:13Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The only racism here is people shit-stirring and saying that Zimmerman must be locked up because he killed a black kid, as though that’s any different from killing a white person, of whatever age. It’s unfortunate for him that his attacker wasn’t white, because we wouldn’t have professional race-baiters like Sharpton weighing in in ignorance of the facts, and his disciples in this thread spouting obnoxious, dangerous bullshit. > > To answer a previous question, you lot have been proved wrong twice, with those cases. Do you not see a pattern here? Begging your pardon, But are you out of your damned mind? Again, WTF is a “race-baiter”? What disciples? What “lot”? FYI, I don’t “follow” (whatever that means) Sharpton. WTF does Sharpton have to do with this? No I feel Zimmerman must be locked up because \*\*HE COMMITTED A CRIME. \*\* \*\*Are you aware of the role that social media played? The internet? Martin’s family? There has been a huge outcry from not only Americans but people from around the world.\*\* “My lot”??? You need to get your head out of your ass and stop reading Stormfront or whatever shit you’ve been reading. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8922 "2012-12-07T21:17:11Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > My point still remains:what the HELL does this have to do with Martin?\*\* Because, as **Steophan** has explained, in cases like this one and the Duke case and the Tawana Brawley case, there are always going to be people who automatically side with the black and against the white. **you with the face** did it in the Duke case. As mentioned, she was proven wrong, but remains unembarrassed enough to do the same thing in this case. Others, like Sharpton and Spike Lee (and you) are race-baiting in this case. Fortunately, the legal system was able to look beyond the racist crap that some were pitching, so that Tawana Brawley was exposed as a liar, the accused in the Duke case were cleared of the false charges against them, and Nifong, the detestable liar who cynically exploited the racism in his district to gain re-election, has been punished for his malfeasance. It is to be hoped that the same will occur in this case. Zimmerman should be acquitted, preferably at the SYG hearing so as not to further trouble him. I suppose it would be too much to ask the race-baiters hereabouts would be embarassed by being proven wrong, again, but one can dream. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=445) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=447)