# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 449
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8963 "2012-12-08T07:55:58Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Right, I know you believe this based on your feelings and emotions. All I’m saying is that the same kind of forecasts were made about Zimmerman in the beginning and they were hilariously wrong. > > Your pronoucements are essentially setting you up to be laughed at later, and I’m not understanding why that hasn’t dawned on you and others like you as of yet. Feel free to find a previous statement of mine that has been proven to be wrong, and we can continue this conversation. I can’t think of any- could be wrong though. I’ve definitely never said that the case would definitely be dropped or that he would definitely not be charged. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8964 "2012-12-08T07:57:05Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m just going to respond to this bit. Again, what you _feel_ is irrelevant, and “feeling” that someone has committed a crime is an almost meaningless statement, unless you’re psychic. > > You either think the evidence shows that they’ve committed a crime - in which case the onus is on you to provide that evidence - or you don’t, in which case you _should_ think he’s innocent. > > No feelings involved. Mary Cutcher had lots of “feelings” and “intuitions” about the case, too. I hope her and her mother are proud of helping to stir up the anti-Zimmerman hatred. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8965 "2012-12-08T08:00:14Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > **You** , (can I call you **You**?) – I’m pretty much on your side of the argument when it comes to Zimmerman’s culpability in this whole mess, but on the other hand I’m squarely in the \*\*emeraldia \*\*camp regarding his potential prison time. You don’t think Florida is going to make one big soup-sandwich out of this? They crow about their “don’t worry, you can shoot people” laws. Of course Zimmerman is going to walk – and become a folk hero – and an NRA darling – all the bennies one gets from being an heroic vigilante. Well, you’re half way there. This case had nothing to do with the “Stand Your Ground” part of SYG legislation. People who are against the legislation really, really want it to be, but this still would have been a case of self-defense without it. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8966 "2012-12-08T08:05:41Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I don’t know if he’s gonna walk or not. Jurors are unpredictable animals, and no one has a crystal ball to see how Zimmerman is going to perform on the witness stand. Evidence still is being collected, too. > > It’s foolish to declare, in either direction, what is going to happen to Zimmerman a year from now. Especially in a thread like this one, with two sides vehemently pitted against each other. If by chance **emeraldia’s** wrong about Zimmerman’s chances of being locked up until his 50’s, he’s gotta know that me, **betenoir** , and others are going to bring up earlier posts and howl with laughter. I just don’t get why he’s opening himself to such derision when it’s completely unnecessary. Since I have done this to the consistently mistaken statements on the other side of the debate, including you, I would certainly have it coming. But I’m not the least bit worried. You mention jurors. What makes you think it will make it to a jury? I really don’t see why it should. The _only_ reason it has made it this far was due to a media blitz based on misinformation temporarily inflaming public opinion long enough to ensure a prosecution. If the media and the pot-stirrers can do it again, then they may get past this judge as well. But that is the _only_ momentum this case has. Take away the threat of civil unrest and rioting, you have nothing. There is no merit to this case. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8967 "2012-12-08T08:11:12Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > In addition bringing up Tawana Brawley and Duke Lacrosse… > > WTF does this have to do with this particular case? > > Nothing…same shit you hear from the racist far-right…same shit. Voted for Obama twice, so perhaps I’m not the best example of racist far-right. I’m more of a moderate that knows B.S. when he sees it. If you don’t know why I would make the comparison to the Tawana Brawley case and the Duke Lacrosse case, then I suspect you are either playing naive, or you really are naive. They were both media-hyped cases based on race. The biggest difference is that the other ones didn’t make it this far. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8968 "2012-12-08T08:15:29Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Begging your pardon, > > But are you out of your damned mind? > > Again, WTF is a “race-baiter”? > > What disciples? > > What “lot”? > > FYI, I don’t “follow” (whatever that means) Sharpton. > > WTF does Sharpton have to do with this? > > No I feel Zimmerman must be locked up because \*\*HE COMMITTED A CRIME. \*\* > > \*\*Are you aware of the role that social media played? The internet? Martin’s family? > > There has been a huge outcry from not only Americans but people from around the world.\*\* > > “My lot”??? > > You need to get your head out of your ass and stop reading Stormfront or whatever shit you’ve been reading. The “huge cry” was back in March, when everybody had their tummies full of the B.S. Crump and the yellow journalists were spewing. Most people don’t believe this is murder. Most people don’t really even care about it. I think there are maybe 500 people tops that give a damn on a slow Zimmerman day. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8969 "2012-12-08T08:22:05Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Immunity? In exchange for what? The judge will grant him immunity because there is no merit to the prosecution’s case. If she doesn’t toss the case, I bet she will at least toss Murder 2. But I think there is a very good chance this fiasco is ended. Maybe I’m too optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8970 "2012-12-08T12:00:45Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > The judge will grant him immunity because there is no merit to the prosecution’s case. If she doesn’t toss the case, I bet she will at least toss Murder 2. But I think there is a very good chance this fiasco is ended. Maybe I’m too optimistic. That’s not quite how it works. If the judge simply finds the charge has no merit, the case will be dismissed without immunity being granted. Zimmerman has to prove self defence to get immunity, which I think may be difficult, for the same reason the prosecution can’t prove guilt - there’s no evidence. I notice that certain people, despite being repeatedly asked, are refusing to supply the evidence they claim exists, and continue to rely on their irrelevant feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8971 "2012-12-08T12:02:17Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > MY GOODNESS. > > For the third time, please look up the definition of the word “feel”. I know what the word means. We should not be talking about feelings here, we should be talking about facts where possible, and where it’s not, clearly demonstrating what evidence our speculation is based on. Nothing should be based on anyone’s feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8972 "2012-12-08T15:05:56Z")
> [@betenoire39](#): > > Again, that’s **NOT WHAT ZIMMERMAN DID and NOT WHAT I’M ARGUING**. Yes, that is what Zimmerman did, according to Dee Dee’s testimony. Do you need it quoted back to you (again)? And yes, that is what you are arguing - > [@](#): > > If I did what Zimmerman did, I would expect that the same things would happen to me. > [@](#): > > IMO Martin “attacked” Zimmerman in self-defense. > [@](#): > > Martin didn’t “go out of his way” to do anything. He was defending himself against the psycho who later killed him. what Martin did was self-defense. > [@](#): > > Now I am really starting to see what\*\* ywtf \*\*was saying…warped. Good bye. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8973 "2012-12-08T16:14:18Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > Since I have done this to the consistently mistaken statements on the other side of the debate, including you, I would certainly have it coming. But I’m not the least bit worried. You mention jurors. What makes you think it will make it to a jury? Are you serious? I could understand being cocky about the chances of an acquittal, but you have no reason to be cocky that this wont even go to trial. If it was that much of a sure thing odds are he wouldn’t have even been arrested and/or the charges would’ve been dropped or reduced to manslaughter by now. These facts alone should be curbing enthusiasm. Secondly, whether or not Zimmerman wins the immunity hearing hinges primarily on his credibility. Even if you think Z is innocent, there is no way you can think Zimmerman’s strength is in the honesty department. If his performance at the first bond hearing and his Hannity interview are any indicator, I anticipate it will take less than 30 seconds into his cross-examination before he says something that contradicts a previous statement he’s said, and it will likely be damning, embarrassing, and hilarious. I won’t say it’s a snow ball’s chance in hell that he’ll win the immunity hearing, but I feel confident in saying that I think it’s unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8974 "2012-12-08T16:34:22Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I could understand being cocky about the chances of an acquittal, but you have no reason to be cocky that this wont even go to trial. If it was that much of a sure thing odds are he wouldn’t have even been arrested and/or the charges would’ve been dropped or reduced to manslaughter by now. These facts alone should be curbing enthusiasm. He was arrested to calm civil unrest. If this was not the case, then he would have been brought in sooner. How can a murder charge be reduced to manslaughter without coming before a judge? Did you mean to say _withdraw_ the charge? ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8975 "2012-12-08T18:13:07Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > He was arrested to calm civil unrest. > If this was not the case, then he would have been brought in sooner. > > How can a murder charge be reduced to manslaughter without coming before a judge? > Did you mean to say _withdraw_ the charge? Read the statement submitted to the court by Omara, in which the SPD is interviewed. After two weeks of deliberation by the SPD, there just wasn’t enough evidence to charge Zimmerman. Special investigators from the state were also there, and said nothing to contradict that opinion. Despite this, Corey, after praying with the Martins, and listening to what they said, filed second degree murder charges. Has anyone ever heard of a case in which the investigators didn’t think there was enouigh evidence to file charges, but the state prosecutor did anyway? ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8976 "2012-12-08T18:27:26Z")
> [@](#): > > I could understand being cocky about the chances of an acquittal, but you have no reason to be cocky that this wont even go to trial. If it was that much of a sure thing odds are he wouldn’t have even been arrested and/or the charges would’ve been dropped or reduced to manslaughter by now. These facts alone should be curbing enthusiasm. It’s the opposite. You’re the one who presumed it would make it to trial. I’m only saying that there is a very good chance that it won’t. I don’t presume that. . > [@](#): > > Secondly, whether or not Zimmerman wins the immunity hearing hinges primarily on his credibility. I’ve heard people say that, but I don’t agree. There is a ton of other evidence to base his claim of self-defense on. I am convinced it was self-defense and I base almost none of it on his testimony or things he’s said. I’m sure he will make verbal gaffes. I’m sure great mountains will be made of them. In the end, the judge and/or jury are likely to see that for what it is. ---
**Author:** ![emeraldia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@emeraldia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emeraldia)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8977 "2012-12-08T18:29:18Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > Read the statement submitted to the court by Omara, in which the SPD is interviewed. After two weeks of deliberation by the SPD, there just wasn’t enough evidence to charge Zimmerman. Special investigators from the state were also there, and said nothing to contradict that opinion. Despite this, Corey, after praying with the Martins, and listening to what they said, filed second degree murder charges. Has anyone ever heard of a case in which the investigators didn’t think there was enouigh evidence to file charges, but the state prosecutor did anyway? This is a basic summary of the timeline of events: > **[Politically Motivated Prosecution](https://emeraldharlequin.wordpress.com/2012/09/08/politically-motivated-prosecution/)** > > All sources are from this Wikipedia article (where you can check their corresponding sources) unless otherwise mentioned.  (emphases added) Timeline On March 13, 2012, Chris Serino sent a capias re… ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8978 "2012-12-08T20:53:49Z")
[http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/q0XObiGugcN/Community+Sanford+Florida+Awaits+Trayvon+Martin/iRX7Z1pbeni](http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/q0XObiGugcN/Community+Sanford+Florida+Awaits+Trayvon+Martin/iRX7Z1pbeni) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8979 "2012-12-08T20:54:00Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > I’ve heard people say that, but I don’t agree. There is a ton of other evidence to base his claim of self-defense on. Zimmerman said he shot Martin because the kid threatened to kill him. What corroborating evidence do you have this happened? I think you’ve forgotten that Zimmerman’s nose has nothing to do with why Martin was supposedly shot, and neither do those nicks on his head. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8980 "2012-12-08T21:47:05Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I think you’ve forgotten that Zimmerman’s nose has nothing to do with why Martin was supposedly shot, and neither do those nicks on his head. I don’t think you can forget something that isn’t true. Zimmerman’s injuries are evidence. I know evidence has nothing to do with your opinion of the case, but that doesn’t change things. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8981 "2012-12-08T21:47:07Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Zimmerman said he shot Martin because the kid threatened to kill him. What corroborating evidence do you have this happened? > > I think you’ve forgotten that Zimmerman’s nose has nothing to do with why Martin was supposedly shot, and neither do those nicks on his head. Wrong. GZ states he used lethal force to prevent TM from killing him, not because TM had “threatened” him. The Broken Nose and Repeated Injuries to GZ’s head are a good, legally admissable, indication that TM was beating GZ. TM showed GZ no indication that TM was going to stop beating GZ. GZ crys for help didn’t bring any rescuers who were willing or able to physically stop TM’s beating of GZ. GZ was on his own to save his own life. There was a struggle for the firearm and TM lost. Neither TM or GZ had done anything illegal up until the point in time TM punched GZ and broke GZ’s nose. TM should have kept his hands to himself. What corroborating evidence do you have this did not happen? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8982 "2012-12-08T21:55:31Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Zimmerman said he shot Martin because the kid threatened to kill him. What corroborating evidence do you have this happened? > > I think you’ve forgotten that Zimmerman’s nose has nothing to do with why Martin was supposedly shot, and neither do those nicks on his head. I think you’ve forgotten that Zimmerman could legally have shot Martin for the punch in the nose. He didn’t. Martin went on to pummel him on the ground which you seem to think is some kind of joke. Those “nicks” on his head represent a serious matter. It’s a big deal to have your head slammed into cement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=448) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=450)